Which tournaments matter in which countries?

[Xokkeu]

I think there are plenty of players who value playing for their country equally to playing for their employers. Players like Ovechkin and Malkin have clearly demonstrated that.

While I wouldn't put it in a class of one being bigger than the other, I would say they are closer to equal in many players eyes.

 

[DaveG]

US:
1 - Olympics
2 - Stanley Cup
----------------
3 - World Cup
4 - U20s
5 - NCAA Tournament (esp. Frozen Four)
6 - World Championships

 

[Kap-the-Head]

I think the OG format has been crap after Torino. I mean, Sweden played, what, like five games, including the final. Even WC Soccer requires a team to play more games to win.

I think hockey tournament in Sochi was one of the worst in OG history - three meaningless games and everyone makes the playoffs.

World Championship allows you to build up for the playoffs by playing numerous games in a group stage with only top so many teams make it through.

This WC is definately not a revenge or a make up for OG in anyway, but I did take this OG loss with a lot less pain than 4 years before.

So I guess what I am trying to say is, if IIHF will continue to bend under NHL to alocate a little more than a week for the best players to participate
then eventually some people, myself included, will start losing interest in such short tournaments, even if they are best on best.

P.S. 1.4 million Canadians watched 2008 final so somebody in Canada cared that there were no Crosbys and Luongos.

 

[ViD]

makes sense...Putin was there

Russia had a stacked team full of NHLers while Finland had one NHLer and a bunch of FELers

lol @ Russia trying to convince themselves of "revenge" of Sochi...not even close

stacked?

we had 8 players from the NHL, two of them (Orlov and Loktionov) only played a couple of games. Malkin only played 4 games,

So, essentially we only had 5 NHL players that were there for the entire tournament. If you call this "stacked", then OK.

In terms of offensive production,out of those 5 players,

Kuznetsov - 1+ 1 in 10 games,
Anisimov - 1+3 in 10 games

So, honestly only Ovechkin, Malkin, Kulemin and Bob had a major impact on the team results.

 

[ViD]

Then they shouldn't be playing in the NHL.

LOL. Let's be real here. Most players are playing in the NHL because of the big paychecks and not the Stanley Cup.

 

[Kap-the-Head]

LOL. Let's be real here. Most players are playing in the NHL because of the big paychecks and not the Stanley Cup.

I would add quality of life and reputation... KHL can pay big money too, but the league is too new and Russia is not the most appealing country for an average NA.

 

[ViD]

I would add quality of life and reputation... KHL can pay big money too, but the league is too new and Russia is not the most appealing country for an average NA.

I agree, but let's not forget that the KHL is not just Russia anymore.

I was also talking more about Europeans in the NHL, and not the North Americans who grow up watching the playoffs while in Europe it's different.

 

[Xokkeu]

I would add quality of life and reputation... KHL can pay big money too, but the league is too new and Russia is not the most appealing country for an average NA.

Yes it's a major culture shock for North Americans and even Scandinavians to move to Russia.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

Pretty sure the post you responded to was meant to be nothing more than a subtle attempt at trolling.

But ya... I really don't think a country's record in 'best vs best' tournaments has any serious influence on local interest in the WC. Russia's interest in the WC doesn't seem to be higher than any of the other major European nations. I get the impression that plenty of Swedes have a 'take it or leave it' attitude when it comes to the WC and based on the numbers posted in this thread compared to this thread from last year a higher % of Swedes tuned into last year's final than Russians did to this year's final. Surprisingly (or perhaps google translate is failing me) based on this link it appears the 2013 WC final actually outdrew the 2014 Olympic final in Sweden.

A big reason that Russia has more of its top players attend the WC is because they are trying to compensate for their short comings at the OG, it's kind of obvious really.

 

[Blind Gardien]

WJC (U20) >>> WHC in Canada. And it's not like it's just because Canada has been winning that lately, they haven't. It's just the interest and timing and all that. It is what it is. Don't really need to rationalize it, it's the way reality has evolved.

 

[Xokkeu]

A big reason that Russia has more of its top players attend the WC is because they are trying to compensate for their short comings at the OG, it's kind of obvious really.

It's kind of obviously wrong really.


Russians have had good attendance for the past decade because Russian fans and players value international play quite highly.

You are viewing their actions through a Canadian viewpoint, when it's not how they're thinking.

 

[Canuckistani]

I think the OG format has been crap after Torino. I mean, Sweden played, what, like five games, including the final. Even WC Soccer requires a team to play more games to win.

Agreed. In Turin there were two groups of six, which meant 5 round robin games with the top 4 in each group advancing to the QF.

There were more games to watch, and more time to build teach chemistry.

But for some reason that format was a one-off and every other NHL-Olympics has seen three groups of four, only three RR games, and everyone making the playoffs.

Friggin' stupid.

 

[Reindl87]

Agreed. In Turin there were two groups of six, which meant 5 round robin games with the top 4 in each group advancing to the QF.

There were more games to watch, and more time to build teach chemistry.

But for some reason that format was a one-off and every other NHL-Olympics has seen three groups of four, only three RR games, and everyone making the playoffs.

Friggin' stupid.

It's not for some reason it's for the reason that NHL is *****ing around and wants as few games as possible.
Boy do i hope the NHl doesn't allow players to come in 2018. This will guarantee a good format again and those players who care about their nation will come anyway, no matter what the club says. If the paycheck North Americans stay home, so be it.

 

[JackSlater]

It's not for some reason it's for the reason that NHL is *****ing around and wants as few games as possible.
Boy do i hope the NHl doesn't allow players to come in 2018. This will guarantee a good format again and those players who care about their nation will come anyway, no matter what the club says. If the paycheck North Americans stay home, so be it.

Just like when all of the NHL based Europeans stormed the 1994 Olympics... right?

 

[ViD]

Just like when all of the NHL based Europeans stormed the 1994 Olympics... right?

KHL wasn't around at that point..

 

[BanditKeith99]

Swiss are huge on spengler cup

 

[roto]

It's a bit ironic that NHL players are needed in order to have all players available, but at the same time it completely ruins the tournament, because three are only three round-robin games, and they're basically meaningless. NHL has demanded that if NHL players play in the tournament, it must be as short as possible with as few games as possible.

I don't care if NHL players participate 2018 Olympics or not. Quality level of games in Sochi was low in general anyway and tournament format is a joke.

 

[JackSlater]

KHL wasn't around at that point..

True, though it is a big leap to assume that Russians (or Czechs or Slavakians) would do this, better yet Canadians/Americans/Swedes/Finns who have given no indication that they are willing to turn to the KHL over any NHL option.

 

[cutchemist42]

The NHL has done more then good when it comes to good international events compared to other sports. It is true the Olympic tourney used to be better, and if people expect the NHL to make a better World Cup, you're dreaming.

 

[roto]

The NHL has done more then good when it comes to good international events compared to other sports.

Compared to what sports?

 

[cutchemist42]

Compared to what sports?

Soccer/Football
Rugby
Basketball
Cricket
Volleyball

(Even baseball is getting close to being better)

All of these team sports run better international calendars/events/products for their fans then what the NHL has allowed the hockey world to have IMO.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

It's kind of obviously wrong really.


Russians have had good attendance for the past decade because Russian fans and players value international play quite highly.

You are viewing their actions through a Canadian viewpoint, when it's not how they're thinking.

I'm pretty sure I understand the Russian viewpoint as well or better than you and I'm not wrong. When Russia wins its first best on best tournament I can guarantee that it will make the WC victories after that less valuable to them. They only mean so much now because they haven't won a major tournament.

 

[roto]

True, though it is a big leap to assume that Russians (or Czechs or Slavakians) would do this, better yet Canadians/Americans/Swedes/Finns who have given no indication that they are willing to turn to the KHL over any NHL option.

This is not entirely true. Komarov turned down offer from Leafs and Lehterä didn't accept one-way deal from Blues. Most of the Finns rater choose NHL though if they get enough money (one-way deal) and big enough role.

On the other hand KHL is expanding to western Europe. Norway is next. Quite soon there will be a "European conference", where the teams don't need to play too much in Russia at all. If the salary good enough, it's quite tempting to stay in Europe especially because the role in team is likely bigger and it's easier to visit home.

I predict that in the future there are more Finnish players in KHL, who could play also in NHL in some role. Still the top talent likely goes to NHL like today, just because they can and they get big minutes and role.

 

[roto]

Soccer/Football
Rugby
Basketball
Cricket
Volleyball

(Even baseball is getting close to being better)

All of these team sports run better international calendars/events/products for their fans then what the NHL has allowed the hockey world to have IMO.

I agree with you. I just didn't understand properly your previous post.

 

[roto]

I'm pretty sure I understand the Russian viewpoint as well or better than you and I'm not wrong. When Russia wins its first best on best tournament I can guarantee that it will make the WC victories after that less valuable to them. They only mean so much now because they haven't won a major tournament.

It's true that the Olympic gold may make the WHC gold less valuable, but the effect likely won't be as significant as you think. You are looking this from NA point-of-view. Tournament status is more important for you Canadians. Many Europeans don't care too much about the status, we can enjoy the tournament anyway, and be happy if we win. We don't need to prove our superiority with some mini-tournament, which format is a joke.

What could some Finland prove anyway by winning Olympic gold? Canadians would just say here that it was a fluke which can happen in such short tournament. Czechs won gold in Nagano but still they care about WHCs. Swedes don't care too much about WHCs nowadays, but I don't think Olympic gold is the main reason for that.