Proposal: Which fan base would do this trade Matthew Knies For Jesper Wallstedt
- Thread starter yzerman
- Start date
- Jun 22, 2018
- 8,953
- 21,212
Toronto’s fanbase would definitely do this trade before the Minnesota fanbase.
We are currently sitting at 98% of Minnesota fans saying no to this trade. Only 63% of Toronto fans are saying no.
That’s basically a universal no from Wild fans and many of them love Knies as a player, former gopher and all.
This is an L take and analogy.
There were definitely talks over the years of how the Wild missed by taking Peart over Knies in the 2nd round of 2021.
There were also talks about why the Wild took O’Rourke over Faber to begin with (prior to the trade).
Hell, there was consternation in 2022 when the Wild took Ohgren over Snuggerud.
Oliver Moore was the target on HFWild for our 2023 1st round pick.
These people watch the gophers. Trust me, I’m a (Wisconsin) badgers fan amongst a sea of gophers fans and a sprinkle of St Cloud/Duluth/Mn State/St Thomas/North Dakota fans.
HockeyVirus
Woll stan.
- Nov 15, 2020
- 19,556
- 29,937
A lot of those votes are Leaf haters. Also our fanbase is like this, they hear a name that has hype somewhere and are willing to trade anyone and anything for them until they get here and they realize they have flaws and then repeat the process.
The point was, being around something doesn't mean you pay attention to it. Sure there are some who are hardcore fans and follow the team and know the player well. But just because someone is a fan of the Wild does not mean they actually watch something else.
Another better example, can't be on any Leafs board without some blue jays talk being there. Basically any Canadian fanbase has blue jay chat. I have watched like 5 baseball games in my life. Me being a Leafs fan doesn't mean I know anything about the blue jays just because the fanbase overlaps.
This will be an interesting debate to revisit in 5-6 years. This could look like we were arguing about Pogge vs JVR lol
Organizational needs make this a non-starter for MN, goalie is an immediate need with Fleury retiring following this season. You could balance that aspect out by adding Woll and Ohgren to each side I suppose, but that still doesn’t bring much cohesion when you consider team timelines. Ohgren and Wallstedt are just entering the league this upcoming season, that doesn’t fit Toronto’s immediate window quite as well as the more established Knies, and the Wild do have flexibility for rookie mistakes during the final year of major buyout issues.
HabzSauce
Registered User
- Jun 10, 2022
- 1,737
- 2,386
Good proposal, I had to think about this a lot for both sides. Both players would be tough to replace
Knies is a nice player I like him a lot, but you have to think if Wallestatd hits his ceiling, he could be able to impact the game more than knies could just by nature of their positions.
Just in terms of pure value, Id say this trade favors the leafs just a touch.
Knies is a nice player I like him a lot, but you have to think if Wallestatd hits his ceiling, he could be able to impact the game more than knies could just by nature of their positions.
Just in terms of pure value, Id say this trade favors the leafs just a touch.
I wasn't talking about the fanbases, turns out I did write fanbase I meant to write franchise
That's not the same thing at all. We are talking about the same sport that everyone on this board is a die hard for. Not baseball.
I can assure you a huge portion of the board watches college hockey or pays attention to it in some form or fashion. I do not follow the gophers, but I know enough about them because of the people on HFWild and the games they play against Wisconsin. To compare that to hockey fans in Toronto watching the Blue Jays is extremely out of touch with reality.
I doubt Guerin would consider trading Wallstedt. Knies is not currently good enough to justify trading him.
To think fans from Ontario don't know as much or more about prospects in the OHL vs fans from Minnesota know about NCAA is honestly about as out of touch as you can get.
You’re not following the conversation at all. It’s not the NCAA as a whole. It’s Minnesotans following the Minnesota Golden Gophers, the team Knies played for and is less than 10 miles from the Wild’s rink. Some Canadian poster is saying that Wild fans don’t know of Knies’ game and that most Wild fans do not watch the gophers. It is extremely out of touch with reality.
Hope that helps.
Albus Dumbledore
Master of Death
- Mar 28, 2015
- 9,041
- 2,688
f*** it. Knies gonna be a top 6, PF w/ 65+ points next year. Helllll no to this deal.
It's so common for the Gopher and Wild fan bases to overlap, that when the Wild are playing at home and the Gophers win a big game on the road, you'll get a Gopher chant as the news is breaking out at the X from the fans during the Wild game! M-I-N-N-E-S-O-T-A! Minnesota! Minnesota! Yeaaaaaaah Gophers!
HockeyVirus
Woll stan.
- Nov 15, 2020
- 19,556
- 29,937
No apparently just being a fan of a team makes you an expert on local teams because fan bases overlap (but only for the same sport I guess, and only if they play in a certain league not the OHL). Even if you don't watch them, third hand accounts of prospects makes you informed.
A lot of these fans appear to not even know who Knies is based on what I have read in this thread. And that is no disrespect to Jesper, just a lot of folks are acting like he is some middle 6 winger. There is a good chance Knies is a power forward first line winger. Dude is only 21 and already played in that role quite a bit. Meanwhile a goalie with AHL and lower experience is some untouchable.
Wallstedt would need to basically become a top 5 goalie in the world to not make this poll laughable
What is more likely?
A die hard hockey fan watching a local baseball team
Or
A die hard hockey fan watching a local hockey team
HockeyVirus
Woll stan.
- Nov 15, 2020
- 19,556
- 29,937
That is not the point I was making at all. If a lot of welders are also car guys, just because someone becomes a welder does not mean they like cars. And just because they overhear their coworkers discussing their projects doesn't mean they care or learn enough to say more than the most basic things.
The fallacy that certain fanbases are experts of a team by being fans of another team and being around people who enjoy something is nonsense and I demonstrated that now with 3 examples. But apparently, you can't use different sports or the OHL as examples for reasons.
Bruce Granville
Registered User
- Oct 11, 2014
- 5,917
- 4,627
The Management
Registered User
- Jun 8, 2009
- 2,045
- 2,334
I think the issue here, from Toronto's perspective, is that if they're moving a valuable asset for goaltending help, it'd need to be for someone more established. Akin to what Ottawa did to bring in Linus Ullmark. That shouldn't ideally cost you Matthew Knies.
Wallstedt is a terrific piece to have in any organization, but would probably be more enticing to a team on the upswing, rather than one trying desperately to get over the hump. Or, in a situation where he can split starts with a reliable journeyman. I feel like he's a perfect piece for Minnesota organizationally, and he is in turn a perfect fit for them.
It's also exceedingly rare you see any hockey team part with what they regard as their most promising up-and-coming young player, whatever their "objective" value may be in a vacuum. For that reason alone neither team would be likely to make this swap.
Wallstedt is a terrific piece to have in any organization, but would probably be more enticing to a team on the upswing, rather than one trying desperately to get over the hump. Or, in a situation where he can split starts with a reliable journeyman. I feel like he's a perfect piece for Minnesota organizationally, and he is in turn a perfect fit for them.
It's also exceedingly rare you see any hockey team part with what they regard as their most promising up-and-coming young player, whatever their "objective" value may be in a vacuum. For that reason alone neither team would be likely to make this swap.
BlueBaron
Registered User
I'm not super confident Woll will stay healthy but it's easier to buy goalies than power forwards. Knies fills a critical need that we cannot replace. I could see us possibly getting a goalie if thing fall apart but we are more likely to use non roster assets.
This has nothing to do with being fans of "another team" this has to do with being fans of BOTH teams.
I have traveled to watch the Gophers play road games in the regular season and in the playoffs. I have traveled to watch the Wild play road games in the regular season and the playoffs.
The Gophers have a longer history locally than any professional hockey team has had locally. They're one of the most storied college hockey teams in existence.
You're acting like it's not typical for a Wild fan to be a Gopher fan too, when is actually VERY typical.
What do you think North Star fans watched after they left?
For that matter, why did Norm Green villify the local hockey scene so much as a reason to move? He hated the "local competition" for hockey fan dollars.
The difference between how the North Stars owners/ management handled it vs the Wild? The Wild have 100% embrace it and encourage it, often even playing live Gopher games on the jumbo tron pregame before the Wild come out for warmups.
MuckOG
Registered User
- May 18, 2012
- 15,866
- 5,844
The point is that many Wild fans are Gopher fans and have been following Knies closely for as long, if not longer, than Leafs fans have. Many of know what kind of player he is because we have watched just about every game he played for the Gophers and are fans of him.
Just because we wouldn't want to do this deal is not a knock against him. Just that Wallstedt fills a very important position of need moving forward and we feel that we already have good young forward talent both on the roster and coming up through the system. This deal just wouldn't make sense for the Wild.
Do you ever think Leafs fans get so much hate because they run their mouths on things they clearly know nothing about?
I’m telling you, as a non-gopher fan, that the majority of the people I interact with are either gopher fans or know plenty about the gophers. You sitting here acting like you know you better of the situation is not a good look.
Wallstedt can definitely not be a top 5 goaltender and have more value than Knies. Knies has a ways to go before his value jumps to that of a 1st line power forward.
HockeyVirus
Woll stan.
- Nov 15, 2020
- 19,556
- 29,937
Leaf fans are just easy targets that's all there is to it.
I am just looking for acknowledgement that my statement is logical. Please refute this.
"Just because a person is a member of a fanbase that overlaps, does not mean that they personally are automatically knowledgeable of the other team".
I understand a high percentage of fans may be fans of both, but it is an appeal to probability to suggest any random fan has that knowledge.
Wallstedt has a ways to go before his value jumps to even being an NHL player. It's what makes this poll laughable.
