Where will Leon Draisaitl rank all-time by the end of his career?

[TheLegend27]

Ok so McDavid plays with the best European playoff performer ever for 9 seasons so far and they have no championships? And have won a game past the second round only one year.

It just doesn't add up. Do players not have any impact on winning? Or maybe it's that their stats look better than their actual impact.

Almost as if good defense and goaltending are key to winning a championship. McDrai historic numbers are just negated by D corp lapses and sub .900 performances in net. Skinner is the great equalizer.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Well, kind of. The higher you go to the bigger the gap between players. So 33 is closer to 41 than it is 25.

Sakic was 32, McDavid pushed him to 33. Kucherov will push him to 34.

25 is centres like Messier and Esposito, which will be almost impossible for Draisaitl to overtake.

I dont think theres a gm now or who as ever lived who would take kucherov over Sakic.

 

[wetcoast]

no Makar factor?

Everyone has a factor and everyone doesn't depends on which player is being discussed and while it would be nice if people had consistent standards of evaluating players often this isn't the case.

All of these guys are elite players and aren't being "carried".

Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, McDavid, Draisaitl and Kucherov at least.

Sure it's early but Makar and Quinn Hughes are tracking that way and EK65 would be in some lists as would Hedman.

 

[wetcoast]

Would he rank higher than Kucherov and MacKinnon? They all seem to be in the same ballpark as Top 40/50ish; star players during their era but not doing things that move them into the 2nd tier of all-time greats.

He might as all 3 are still playing and still in their primes and we don't know what they might do going forward.

I think you have to qualify his offensive prime as "statistically" also.

This is an odd statement as offensive prime is about statistics right?

It's like saying that I'm qualifying your post as an opinion.

 

[wetcoast]

Ok so McDavid plays with the best European playoff performer ever for 9 seasons so far and they have no championships? And have won a game past the second round only one year.

It just doesn't add up. Do players not have any impact on winning? Or maybe it's that their stats look better than their actual impact.

I guess we all missed the part that the Oilers have been hands down favorites for the SC the last 6 seasons right?

People are trying to have it both ways calling out Nurse, Skinner and Bouchard as crap but then blaming their top 2 players for not winning a SC which is a team sport.

Frankly you should know better as most of your posts are very logical and well thought out....this one not respectfully not so much.

 

[daver]

Almost as if good defense and goaltending are key to winning a championship. McDrai historic numbers are just negated by D corp lapses and sub .900 performances in net. Skinner is the great equalizer.

Almost as if playing an all out offensive style leads to high scoring games and dying on that sword like they did in 2022. No issue with trying to max out the production of McDrai but don't be surprised if that leads to chances the other way.

Draisaitl has yet to prove he can carry his own line consistently in the playoffs so the Oilers can consistently ice an effective Top 6. He was a minus 8 on his own line in 2022, a minus 2 in 2023 and a 0 last year.

 

[buffalowing88]

Similar player to Jagr, Malkin and Drail.

I think Jagr is a clear cut above the other two guys in that group. His peak is pretty underrated these days and he did it in the DPE.

 

[daver]

I guess we all missed the part that the Oilers have been hands down favorites for the SC the last 6 seasons right?

People are trying to have it both ways calling out Nurse, Skinner and Bouchard as crap but then blaming their top 2 players for not winning a SC which is a team sport.

Frankly you should know better as most of your posts are very logical and well thought out....this one not respectfully not so much.

Let's agree that Draisaitl and McDavid have met their regular season expectations in the playoffs; McDavid has set himself apart from his peers while Draisaitl has placed himself with MacKinnon and Kucherov.

If Draisaitl was able to carry his own line more consistently, perhaps the Oilers would have had more success. I don't think that is an unreasonable critique.

 

[Kerberos]

It just doesn't add up. Do players not have any impact on winning? Or maybe it's that their stats look better than their actual impact.

You have a hall of fame when it comes to stupid posts but this willfully ignorant cognitive dissonance takes the cake.

 

[KlefDown]

If Draisaitl was able to carry his own line more consistently, perhaps the Oilers would have had more success. I don't think that is an unreasonable critique.

pretty unreasonable since its not true

Draisaitl is near the bottom of the list for "Reasons Oilers haven't had more success"

You have a hall of fame when it comes to stupid posts but this willfully ignorant cognitive dissonance takes the cake.

classic example of uneducated hockey fans trying to sound smart, bro thinks he's onto something

 

[Duke74]

If Draisaitl was able to carry his own line more consistently, perhaps the Oilers would have had more success. I don't think that is an unreasonable critique.

Obviously you don't follow the Oilers, so I'll educate you.

McDavid always gets the cherry linemates in RNH and Hyman, while Draisaitl has been saddled with leftovers like Yamamoto, McLeod, and Foegele over the last few playoff years. Of course McDavid will inevitably have more success with actual topsix players on his wings. This year, once again, Draisaitl is putting up his numbers, largely at 5v5, with Podkolzin, Kapanen, and Connor Brown.

 

[daver]

pretty unreasonable since its not true

Draisaitl is near the bottom of the list for "Reasons Oilers haven't had more success"

When you are being compared to the Top 25/50 players all-time, it absolutely needs to be considered.

 

[Edgelord]

No one will ever be better at playing hockey with an actual 2x4 for a blade than Drai

 

[daver]

Obviously you don't follow the Oilers, so I'll educate you.

McDavid always gets the cherry linemates in RNH and Hyman, while Draisaitl has been saddled with leftovers like Yamamoto, McLeod, and Foegele over the last few playoff years. Of course McDavid will inevitably have more success with actual topsix players on his wings. This year, once again, Draisaitl is putting up his numbers, largely at 5v5, with Podkolzin, Kapanen, and Connor Brown.

In 2022, Draisaitl's most common linemate when not with McDavid/Kane at ES was Hyman.

In 2023, he had RNH on his line for significant minutes at ES and was a minus 3.

In 2024, Kane was his most common linemate at ES.

Of course McDavid will inevitably face the other team's best forwards and d-pairings. Draisaitl being unable to exploit this has been a weakness.

 

[Duke74]

In 2022, Draisaitl's most common linemate when not with McDavid/Kane at ES was Hyman.

In 2023, he had RNH on his line for significant minutes at ES and was a minus 3.

In 2024, Kane was his most common linemate at ES.

Of course McDavid will inevitably face the other team's best forwards and d-pairings. Draisaitl being unable to exploit this has been a weakness.

Are you talking about the regular season or the playoffs? In the 2022 and 2023 playoffs, Draisaitl got stapled to Yamamoto. Last year, he had a rotating cast of McLeod, Foegele, Holloway, and Perry.

Also, how was Draisaitl unable to "exploit" the other teams in the playoffs? In 2022, he recorded 32 points in 16 games despite playing with a high ankle sprain. In 2023, he recorded 18 points in 12 games and last year, he recorded 31 points in 25 games despite playing with broken ribs and a broken hand, all with inferior linemates.

 

[daver]

Are you talking about the regular season or the playoffs? In the 2022 and 2023 playoffs, Draisaitl got stapled to Yamamoto. Last year, he had a rotating cast of McLeod, Foegele, Holloway, and Perry.

Also, how was Draisaitl unable to "exploit" the other teams in the playoffs? In 2022, he recorded 32 points in 16 games despite playing with a high ankle sprain. In 2023, he recorded 18 points in 12 games and last year, he recorded 31 points in 25 games despite playing with broken ribs and a broken hand, all with inferior linemates.

Line Combinations - Frozen Tools

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In 2022, he was a minus 8 when centring his own line. He was unable to carry his own line so the Oilers could create offensive depth. The Oilers runned and gunned to the ECF then got badly outgunned by the Avs.

 

[Duke74]

Line Combinations - Frozen Tools

NHL line combinations, NHL lineups from dobberhockey.com

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In 2022, he was a minus 8 when centring his own line. He was unable to carry his own line so the Oilers could create offensive depth. The Oilers runned and gunned to the ECF then got badly outgunned by the Avs.

Anyone knows plus-minus is a flawed stat. The Oilers lost to the Avs in 2022 because the Avs were a much better overall team. You still haven't proven your mystical claim that Draisaitl "was unable to carry his own line."

 

[10YearsHaveGotBehind]

Crosby was -2 in 2016 in the postseason. Won a Smythe that year. Lets all grow up and realize +/- is a nothing stat.

 

[Coffey]

dude got the nicknames divesaitl and crysaitl even playing in this powderpuff era

thats gonna be a NR from me

Hope you never see the nicknames Crosby got.

 

[daver]

Anyone knows plus-minus is a flawed stat. The Oilers lost to the Avs in 2022 because the Avs were a much better overall team. You still haven't proven your mystical claim that Draisaitl "was unable to carry his own line."

Plus 12 with McDavid and Minus 8 without is pretty good evidence.

 

[Duke74]

Plus 12 with McDavid and Minus 8 without is pretty good evidence.

I'll repeat my previous points:

1. Plus-minus is a flawed stat.
2. Draisaitl has the dregs for linemates, thus decreasing the overall performance of the line

And if you still persist in your arguments, what do you have to say about this year, when he's +16, even higher than McDavid, while carrying around fourth-liners such as Podkolzin, Kapanen, and Brown? That kind of takes the air out of your whole argument, no?

 

[Skolman]

dude got the nicknames divesaitl and crysaitl even playing in this powderpuff era

thats gonna be a NR from me

Are you 12?

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Almost as if good defense and goaltending are key to winning a championship. McDrai historic numbers are just negated by D corp lapses and sub .900 performances in net. Skinner is the great equalizer.

So management has done a poor job around them. I agree. It's crazy the relative lack of success they've had over a ten year period with two top 5 centers. Usually that's a slam dunk for multiple cups.

 

[daver]

I'll repeat my previous points:

1. Plus-minus is a flawed stat.
2. Draisaitl has the dregs for linemates, thus decreasing the overall performance of the line

Draisaitl's most common linemate at ES in the regular season

18/19 - McDavid, Chaisson
19/20 - McDavid, Kassion, RNH
20/21 - Yamamoto. McDavid (45% SF% w/o McDavid, 55% with McDavid)
21/22 - Yamamoto, RNH, McDavid (45% SF% w/o McDavid, 56% with McDavid)
22/23 - Hyman, McDavid (50% SF% w/o McDavid, 58% with McDavid)
23/24 - McDavid, Hyman, (55% SF% w/o McDavid, 58% with McDavid)

McDavid is easily his most common linemate at ES, and he has had significant time with the other good Oiler forwards such as RNH and Hyman.


Draisaitl's Most common linemate at ES in the playoffs

2021 - McDavid
2022 - McDavid, Hyman (36% SF% w/o McDavid, 49% with McDavid)
2023 - McDavid, Kane (53% SF% w/o McDavid, 54% with McDavid)
2024 - McDavid, Kane, Hyman (43% SF% w/o McDavid, 66% with McDavid)

McDavid is easily his most common linemate at ES, and he has had significant time with the other good Oiler forwards such as Hyman and Kane.


ES scoring in the playoffs
2022 - 22 ES points, 15 point shares with McDavid and Plus 14 w/McDavid,
7 ES points with others and a Minus 6 w/o McDavid

Draisaitl was clearly not effective at ES without McDavid


2023 - 10 ES points, 3 point shares with McDavid and Plus 4 w/McDavid,
7 ES points with others and a Minus 3 w/o McDavid

Draisaitl was again not as effective at ES without McDavid

2024 - 16 ES points, 4 point shares with McDavid and Plus 3 w/McDavid,
12 ES points with others and a Minus 1 w/o McDavid

A bit better but still Draisaitl did not contribute positively at ES with decent linemates and easier matchups


You can easily argue that Draisaitl has never been able to carry a line consistently and/or positively in any regular season or playoffs yet.

 

[Duke74]

Draisaitl's most common linemate at ES in the regular season

18/19 - McDavid, Chaisson
19/20 - McDavid, Kassion, RNH
20/21 - Yamamoto. McDavid (45% SF% w/o McDavid, 55% with McDavid)
21/22 - Yamamoto, RNH, McDavid (45% SF% w/o McDavid, 56% with McDavid)
22/23 - Hyman, McDavid (50% SF% w/o McDavid, 58% with McDavid)
23/24 - McDavid, Hyman, (55% SF% w/o McDavid, 58% with McDavid)

McDavid is easily his most common linemate at ES, and he has had significant time with the other good Oiler forwards such as RNH and Hyman.


Draisaitl's Most common linemate at ES in the playoffs

2021 - McDavid
2022 - McDavid, Hyman (36% SF% w/o McDavid, 49% with McDavid)
2023 - McDavid, Kane (53% SF% w/o McDavid, 54% with McDavid)
2024 - McDavid, Kane, Hyman (43% SF% w/o McDavid, 66% with McDavid)

McDavid is easily his most common linemate at ES, and he has had significant time with the other good Oiler forwards such as Hyman and Kane.


ES scoring in the playoffs
2022 - 22 ES points, 15 point shares with McDavid and Plus 14 w/McDavid,
7 ES points with others and a Minus 6 w/o McDavid

Draisaitl was clearly not effective at ES without McDavid


2023 - 10 ES points, 3 point shares with McDavid and Plus 4 w/McDavid,
7 ES points with others and a Minus 3 w/o McDavid

Draisaitl was again not as effective at ES without McDavid

2024 - 16 ES points, 4 point shares with McDavid and Plus 3 w/McDavid,
12 ES points with others and a Minus 1 w/o McDavid

A bit better but still Draisaitl did not contribute positively at ES with decent linemates and easier matchups


You can easily argue that Draisaitl has never been able to carry a line consistently and/or positively in any regular season or playoffs yet.

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