Where will Connor McDavid rank all-time by the time he retires?

[norrisnick]

Crosby was top 3 in ppg 11x in his first 12 years (missed in his rookie year).
McDavid was 9x in 9 so far. To me - that's edge to Crosby. Let's see if McDavid can maintain top 3 in ppg as he ages. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but giving him credit for it ahead of time is insane.



I'd agree that McDavid should be the favorite for Hart/Ross/Lindsay for next 3 years at this point (as of today, this could change going into either of the next 2 seasons if someone like Bedard or other steps up big time this upcoming season). But - so was Crosby at a similar age - and he had fantastic seasons (2nd in hart, conn smythes, etc) but without actually winning any of those trophies. So there's no guarantee.

Point is - you're being way too dismissive of Crosby and way to dismissive of McDavid's lack of longevity.

Crosby had some incredibly solid seasons after his 9th year. In fact - in all of NHL history - who has a better record in their 10th to 19th season than Crosby does? He probably has a strong case for being #1 - and if he's not #1 outright he's probably top 5.

Can McDavid age better than Crosby? It's possible, but it remains to be seen.

I think McDavid will almost surely pass Crosby all-time, but he hasn't yet as of season 9, because longevity counts. And your earlier comment saying the gap between Crosby/McDavid is similar to Crosby/Toews is an insane exageration.

Gretzky, Howe, Lidstrom, Bourque and Roy

 

[JackSlater]

I think there is a good chance he ends up on his own island at 5. He may have arguments over some of the top 4, but I likely won't be convinced. There's no real argument he'll have over Gretzky. Howe will be really difficult as well, in that Howe has a peak that is arguable with McDavid's but combines it with the best longevity in the history of the sport. His main chance will be blowing away Orr and Lemieux in career value, which is possible, but for me I can't place him ahead if I think he is clearly below them when all are at their best.

 

[Staniowski]

Difficult to say, but the majority will definitely have him somewhere in the top four.

We should know within the next five years or so. If he continues to rack up scoring titles, and has some pretty good team success, a lot of people are likely going to argue for #2 at least.

Gretzky could even be vulnerable at #1, especially given his decline at a relatively young age (he was never really the best player in hockey after his 26-year-old season). If McDavid can avoid that, and especially if he can maintain or exceed what he's doing now for several more seasons, then there will probably be many people advocating for him at #1.

There are a surprising number of people in the hockey world who already say McDavid is the best ever, so this will obviously only continue to increase.

There's no chance that Howe will be in the top four for most people; McDavid is a much better scorer than Howe was.

Lemieux and Orr are question marks due to their short careers, but McDavid will probably have to rev it up a bit to overtake them.

Crosby might challenge Howe, but he has no chance vs McDavid.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Difficult to say, but the majority will definitely have him somewhere in the top four.

We should know within the next five years or so. If he continues to rack up scoring titles, and has some pretty good team success, a lot of people are likely going to argue for #2 at least.

Gretzky could even be vulnerable at #1, especially given his decline at a relatively young age (he was never really the best player in hockey after his 26-year-old season). If McDavid can avoid that, and especially if he can maintain or exceed what he's doing now for several more seasons, then there will probably be many people advocating for him at #1.

There are a surprising number of people in the hockey world who already say McDavid is the best ever, so this will obviously only continue to increase.

There's no chance that Howe will be in the top four for most people; McDavid is a much better scorer than Howe was.

Lemieux and Orr are question marks due to their short careers, but McDavid will probably have to rev it up a bit to overtake them.

Crosby might challenge Howe, but he has no chance vs McDavid.

This comment while mcdavid is currently shitting the bed in the finals is hilarious

 

[Elvs]

There are a surprising number of people in the hockey world who already say McDavid is the best ever.

I don't think there's anything surprising about it. The big majority of hockey fans today weren't around to see Gretzky play. Heck, I belong to the members who have been posting on these boards the longest and I wasn't even born when Gretzky was in his prime.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I think a Cup is really critical to his legacy or at least a great SCF run. Every other generational player has at least one and most have several.
It’s still early in the series but so far one point in two games is really disappointing for a player who is trying to get into the top 4 all time.
For me, unless he has that run or preferably a Cup, he’s outside the top 4.

 

[ThisIsMyAlibi]

#5

 

[wetcoast]

This comment while mcdavid is currently shitting the bed in the finals is hilarious

You are obviously aren't watching the games and only box score watching dude.

No he isn't tearing it up but he definitely isn't shitting the bed and honestly your post says more about some agenda than it does about reality.

 

[bobholly39]

Gretzky, Howe, Lidstrom, Bourque and Roy

I hadn't thought of Roy, but Gretzky/Howe/Lidstrom/Bourque are the first 4 names I thought of who'd be in contention when I made that comment.

I still say Crosby is in contention among this crowd. It'd be a fun exercise to do a deep analysis on, rank seasons 10-19 among those 6 players. I don't think Crosby is last.

 

[tabness]

I don't think there's anything surprising about it. The big majority of hockey fans today weren't around to see Gretzky play. Heck, I belong to the members who have been posting on these boards the longest and I wasn't even born when Gretzky was in his prime.

It's exactly as @Staniowski said, more and more people are already forgetting or discounting the original six players, soon they will forget/discount the Orrs and Gretzkys and Lemieuxs, then in the future nobody will know or care about who is playing now.

For a great anecdote which is suggestive that the "all time rankings" of players is mostly reflective of the context in which they came from, I being you pre original six player Art Coulter and his thoughts on some of the so called "big four"

WHAT DO YOU REALLY THINK?

Art Coulter, the only man in almost 54 years to captain a New York Rangers team that won the Stanley Cup, would sooner use hockey's most hallowed trophy as a spittoon than to watch these Rangers win the Cup.

"I don't pay any attention," he snapped. "They're an embarrassment to me. No skill. That's not even hockey they're playing. They mean nothing to me, and I mean nothing to them."

For Coulter, the game stopped being played about the time the war ended-World War II, that is. 1945. Before they went out and ruined the game "with those crazy hooked sticks, which eliminated all stick-handling and sensible passing. Now they just shoot the puck in and chase it around like headless chickens. And they hit each other over the head with their sticks. It's idiocy."

But what about Gordie Howe? "Stinko."

Bobby Hull? "I saw him play once in Chicago. Give him to the birds. Slap shot. Idiocy."

Wayne Gretzky? "A Johnny-come-lately, right? I know of him. I've seen him play. I wondered why he wasn't on his ass all the time. There's nothing to him."

even fuller interview here TO THIS OLD RANGER,

what is hockey today? ("today" since the red line rule lol)

"I call it s----y shinny."

tickets sure were cheaper back then

He clearly didn't appreciate the phone call he received Wednesday, the one assuming he'd be overcome with nostalgia at the prospects of the Broadway Blueshirts winning their first Cup since he wore No. 2 on defense, back in the days when there wasn't any player he couldn't "throw up into the 10-cent seats if I wanted to."

entire locales also got chewed out

"What the hell are you calling me for?" he said. "Fort Lauderdale? What the hell do you know about hockey?"

"There's a hockey team in Florida?"

even people from the Art's own time and before weren't always spared as you can see from his thoughts on his GM

"Old Lester Patrick was a stupid ass."

and my favorite is how he ended the interview

Would he like a copy of this column?

"Don't bother."

 

[JackSlater]

It's exactly as @Staniowski said, more and more people are already forgetting or discounting the original six players, soon they will forget/discount the Orrs and Gretzkys and Lemieuxs, then in the future nobody will know or care about who is playing now.

For a great anecdote which is suggestive that the "all time rankings" of players is mostly reflective of the context in which they came from, I being you pre original six player Art Coulter and his thoughts on some of the so called "big four"

WHAT DO YOU REALLY THINK?

Art Coulter, the only man in almost 54 years to captain a New York Rangers team that won the Stanley Cup, would sooner use hockey's most hallowed trophy as a spittoon than to watch these Rangers win the Cup.

"I don't pay any attention," he snapped. "They're an embarrassment to me. No skill. That's not even hockey they're playing. They mean nothing to me, and I mean nothing to them."

For Coulter, the game stopped being played about the time the war ended-World War II, that is. 1945. Before they went out and ruined the game "with those crazy hooked sticks, which eliminated all stick-handling and sensible passing. Now they just shoot the puck in and chase it around like headless chickens. And they hit each other over the head with their sticks. It's idiocy."

But what about Gordie Howe? "Stinko."

Bobby Hull? "I saw him play once in Chicago. Give him to the birds. Slap shot. Idiocy."

Wayne Gretzky? "A Johnny-come-lately, right? I know of him. I've seen him play. I wondered why he wasn't on his ass all the time. There's nothing to him."

even fuller interview here TO THIS OLD RANGER,

what is hockey today? ("today" since the red line rule lol)

"I call it s----y shinny."

tickets sure were cheaper back then

He clearly didn't appreciate the phone call he received Wednesday, the one assuming he'd be overcome with nostalgia at the prospects of the Broadway Blueshirts winning their first Cup since he wore No. 2 on defense, back in the days when there wasn't any player he couldn't "throw up into the 10-cent seats if I wanted to."

entire locales also got chewed out

"What the hell are you calling me for?" he said. "Fort Lauderdale? What the hell do you know about hockey?"

"There's a hockey team in Florida?"

even people from the Art's own time and before weren't always spared as you can see from his thoughts on his GM

"Old Lester Patrick was a stupid ass."

and my favorite is how he ended the interview

Would he like a copy of this column?

"Don't bother."

I love when that gets busted out. Probably the best hockey interview I've ever read. His commentary on Gordie Howe is particularly interesting.

 

[tabness]

I love when that gets busted out. Probably the best hockey interview I've ever read. His commentary on Gordie Howe is particularly interesting.

grandpa insults sound like kiddie ones lol

 

[Video Nasty]

Ugh, why is Crosby even being brought up? He has the least interesting and most underwhelming SCF performances for an all-timer, possibly ever.

Scored a grand total of a whopping two goals in three SCF wins and I’m asked to get misty eyed about his greatness? 7 points in 13 games during his first two wins and my drawers are supposed to be soaked?

Please.

All the pretend defensive play retroactively applied doesn’t make up for that kind of shadow performance.

 

[CaptainScrewy]

Below Barkov, that much I know.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Ugh, why is Crosby even being brought up? He has the least interesting and most underwhelming SCF performances for an all-timer, possibly ever.

Scored a grand total of a whopping two goals in three SCF wins and I’m asked to get misty eyed about his greatness? 7 points in 13 games during his first two wins and my drawers are supposed to be soaked?

Please.

All the pretend defensive play retroactively applied doesn’t make up for that kind of shadow performance.

Lol whats mc doing besides getting swept n 3 of the easiet assists of all time.? Crosby led the 2017 finals in scoring and scored 6 points in 6 games in 2008 against prime lid zet n rafalski shadowing him.

Lol whats mc doing besides getting swept n 3 of the easiet assists of all time.? Crosby led the 2017 finals in scoring and scored 6 points in 6 games in 2008 against prime lid zet n rafalski shadowing him. Mcdavid getting swept in the finals and losinh his third healthy art ross will thankfully put an end to this bs of him being top 4 all time or even the goat. Bahaha

 

[Video Nasty]

Lol whats mc doing besides getting swept n 3 of the easiet assists of all time.? Crosby led the 2017 finals in scoring and scored 6 points in 6 games in 2008 against prime lid zet n rafalski shadowing him.

McDavid’s story is still being written. If it took Crosby until his team’s fourth Finals appearance to finally lead the SCF in scoring for the first time, it’s a bit premature for you to hand out the final verdict here. As usual, if one is actually watching the games, they’d notice that McDavid could have as many as 10 points in this series, if not for some truly miraculous saves from Bob and some hit posts. Unfortunately, it hasn’t gone that way. Oh well. This isn’t the last time we’ll be seeing McDavid and the Oilers competing for a Cup.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

McDavid’s story is still being written. If it took Crosby until his team’s fourth Finals appearance to finally lead the SCF in scoring for the first time, it’s a bit premature for you to hand out the final verdict here. As usual, if one is actually watching the games, they’d notice that McDavid could have as many as 10 points in this series, if not for some truly miraculous saves from Bob and some hit posts. Unfortunately, it hasn’t gone that way. Oh well. This isn’t the last time we’ll be seeing McDavid and the Oilers competing for a Cup.

20 points in 25 games including 13 games against lid n zet is not so bad now is it?

 

[General Fanager]

i think he will be 3rd all time

no one is touching Gretz and Lemieux.

 

[matsqq]

Too bad for McDavid that his team got some serious weaknesses in the defensive department.

Ceci, Nurse etc has not lived up to what should be expected .

Many people looking too hard at the titles will always use this against him , but for me he might be the best player ever,

It's also tough to play when he feels everything is on the line in this final series, a huge psychological pressure on top of that.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Lol whats mc doing besides getting swept n 3 of the easiet assists of all time.? Crosby led the 2017 finals in scoring and scored 6 points in 6 games in 2008 against prime lid zet n rafalski shadowing him.

Leading the playoffs in scoring again and being 3rd all time in playoff ppg while taking his team to the finals

 

[Albatros]

Career ppg of active players in their prime is hardly comparable to those already retired.

 

[Video Nasty]

Career ppg of active players in their prime is hardly comparable to those already retired.

Yet I think he’s earned some kind of right by virtue of leading the playoffs in scoring twice already, setting the record for most assists in a playoff run, trailing just Gretzky and Lemieux for total points in a run, and being the fourth quickest to 100 points, and the third quickest to 110 points.

Much like his regular season production, he’s building the kind of cushion that will offset the final quarter of his career decline.

But I understand why you need to wait to have his PPG slip back behind Pederson who played a mere 34 games to somewhere around Orr’s who only played 3 more playoff games than McDavid has right now.

Here’s something fun to chew on. If McDavid’s PPG slips all the way back to 1.00 for his next 71 playoff games, starting as early as this upcoming Tuesday, his PPG would be 1.296, or still good enough to rank behind only Gretzky, Lemieux, and 34 games of Pederson. I’m assuming Drai and MacKinnon decline as well in the meantime. Lemieux played 107 playoff games. Messier’s PPG was pretty much exactly that after 166 games and departing Edmonton.

In other words, it’s pointless to get up in arms about.

 

[LTIR]

Outside top 10 unless he wins a cup

 

[BraveCanadian]

The best thing you can do for career ppg is play less games as an older player.

Little life hack there that has worked for several hfboards superstars like Lemieux and Forsberg etc.

 

[tabness]

will never rank new nhl players at all