Where does Connor Hellebuyck now rank?

[Professor What]

There's been a lot of discussion about whether or not modern goaltending gets its due or if it lags behind previous eras, but I think there's probably agreement that the best of the best of recent years deserve credit for what they've done. Henrik Lundqvist, who I've got in my top 20 now, would be a prime example of someone that deserves that kind of recognition, and I think it's pretty well universally accepted that he does.

Of course, Lundqvist is retired now, so he's no longer among the ranks of the actives. Someone who is is Connor Hellebuyck. He just won his second Vezina tonight (which is one more than Lundqvist), and he's been a four-time Vezina finalist now (one short of Lundqvist), and one can only imagine that he's about to get his third all-star selection (one more than Lundqvist). All of this has been done by the age of 30. If he keeps this up, surely he's going to penetrate well into the top goalies list. My question is how far do you think he's gotten on the list right now?

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[buffalowing88]

Belfour is the immediate comp. I think that Winnipeg will falter in the next year or two and he'll be shipped to another contender. If he wins the Cup with them, he's a lock.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Definitely over Barrasso and company, which puts him top 30 according to our most recent list on goalies. And since Belfour was mentioned, definitely behind him.

 

[Professor What]

Belfour is the immediate comp. I think that Winnipeg will falter in the next year or two and he'll be shipped to another contender. If he wins the Cup with them, he's a lock.

How is Belfour the comp? Are you saying he's reached Belfour's level now or that's what he's tracking for? Because I think he's got some work on the longevity front to get close to Eddie.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

the only one of his contemporaries that I'd take over him is Vasilevskiy

 

[jigglysquishy]

To me, there's five clear top post Brodeur goalies. Luongo, Lundqvist, Price, Vasilevsky, Hellebucyk.

I'd probably go in that order too.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

To me, there's five clear top post Brodeur goalies. Luongo, Lundqvist, Price, Vasilevsky, Hellebucyk.

I'd probably go in that order too.

Rinne was better than Helly

 

[Professor What]

To me, there's five clear top post Brodeur goalies. Luongo, Lundqvist, Price, Vasilevsky, Hellebucyk.

I'd probably go in that order too.

I'd scramble the order, but I agree with the five. I think they've all either entered or significantly moved up in the top 40 since the project was done.

I'd probably rank them Lundqvist, Luongo, Vasilevsky, Price, Hellebuyck, and Hellebuyck is quickly gaining on Price.

Rinne was better than Helly

Oof. I forgot about Rinne. I'd probably have him neck and neck with Hellebuyck. I like Hellebuyck's peak play better, but Rinne has the longevity.

 

[wetcoast]

I'd scramble the order, but I agree with the five. I think they've all either entered or significantly moved up in the top 40 since the project was done.

Sure that seems reasonable and I'll preference my comments with my usual "I'm less certain about my goalie views than for forwards and dmen"

I'd probably rank them Lundqvist, Luongo, Vasilevsky, Price, Hellebuyck, and Hellebuyck is quickly gaining on Price.

Maybe right now but Vasilsvky is gaining on Lou fast and Hellebuyck might pass Lou too the playoff situation in Winnipeg kind of hurts him though.

Oof. I forgot about Rinne. I'd probably have him neck and neck with Hellebuyck. I like Hellebuyck's peak play better, but Rinne has the longevity.

Rinne was in a similar team situation in that his team never got over that playoff hump.

 

[Crosby2010]

He needs some postseason success. Or else he ends up as Mike Liut.

 

[Professor What]

He needs some postseason success. Or else he ends up as Mike Liut.

Well, I think his regular seasons have seen him clear Liut, but that's not a bad playoff comp in my opinion. I think you can say that both of them contributed to some early exits.

 

[Crosby2010]

Well, I think his regular seasons have seen him clear Liut, but that's not a bad playoff comp in my opinion. I think you can say that both of them contributed to some early exits.

They did, yes. Liut has a Pearson though, that's a hard award to win especially in the Gretzky era. I don't see Hellebuyck in there at this moment. Goaltenders more than anyone are judged on postseason play. He needs some of that unless he has a career that totally makes up for it

 

[Michael Farkas]

Gretzky didn't win that many of those goofy awards, did he?

 

[Jets4Life]

Connor Hellebuyck:

-just tied record for least amount of games to achieve 15 wins (17 games)
-now ranks #47 in all time goalie wins
-now ranks #6 in active goalie wins
-easily leading all NHL goalies in virtually every category
-290 wins in 9 seasons. (averages over 32 wins/season)
-on pace to hit 500 wins by the 2030-31 season
-only 30 years old, never injured.

 

[Jets4Life]

They did, yes. Liut has a Pearson though, that's a hard award to win especially in the Gretzky era. I don't see Hellebuyck in there at this moment. Goaltenders more than anyone are judged on postseason play. He needs some of that unless he has a career that totally makes up for it

Give me a break. Even in the year Liut won a Pearson, he was not that great. 33 wins and a 0.894% was good for 1981, but by no means spectular. IN fact Rick heinz, a backup goalie had 0.922, and Liut was not the leader in any category (Wins, saving percentage, GAA, etc).

Liut was a good goalie, but nowhere remotely close to Hellebuyck. If one were to compile a list of the top 10 NHL goalies of the 80s, Liut would barely make the cut. Hellebuyck, OTOH, would be in the top 3, since 2014.

 

[The Panther]

Connor Hellebuyck:

-just tied record for least amount of games to achieve 15 wins (17 games)
-now ranks #47 in all time goalie wins
-easily leading all NHL goalies in virtually every category
-on pace to hit 500 wins by the 2030-31 season
-only 30 years old, never injured.

In fairness, none of these "things" are very impressive things. The first one is a hot team, the second isn't that great, the third is again a hot starting team, the fourth is just speculation and not fact, and the fifth is good but nothing about on-ice play. (By the way, I think Hellebuyck is the best goalie in the business and I've thought that way for a while.)

-now ranks #6 in active goalie wins
-290 wins in 9 seasons. (averages over 32 wins/season)

Now, these 2 are very impressive! For any goalie to win 30 games in a season is difficult, so to average 32 per season (assuming you're correct about that) is really great. (Of course, "wins" shouldn't be considered in a vacuum, as you also should measure them against losses.)

Give me a break. Even in the year Liut won a Pearson, he was not that great. 33 wins and a 0.894% was good for 1981, but by no means spectular. IN fact Rick heinz, a backup goalie had 0.922, and Liut was not the leader in any category (Wins, saving percentage, GAA, etc).

You and I tend to agree on this. Rarely has a player (not just a goalie) been inflated by undeserved reputation as much as Mike Liut during 1980-81. What happened that season? The Blues scored 1 more goal per game than the season prior. Liut's stats were exactly the same. But Liut inexplicably got all the credit.

Liut was a good goalie, but nowhere remotely close to Hellebuyck. If one were to compile a list of the top 10 NHL goalies of the 80s, Liut would barely make the cut. Hellebuyck, OTOH, would be in the top 3, since 2014.

I agree that Hellebuyck is above Liut handily by now, BUT I think you're well off in saying that Liut would barely make the top-10 of the 1980s. Whether we agree with it or not, he did win the Pearson, he was selected to start for Team Canada at the Canada Cup, and he won 65 games in back-to-back seasons (without overtimes). He had 4 or 5 fairly elite seasons between 1979-80 and 1989-90, so I'm pretty sure he'd be in the top 10 of that decade.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Give me a break. Even in the year Liut won a Pearson, he was not that great. 33 wins and a 0.894% was good for 1981, but by no means spectular. IN fact Rick heinz, a backup goalie had 0.922, and Liut was not the leader in any category (Wins, saving percentage, GAA, etc).

Curious why you chose Rick Heinz (who played four games) as Liut’s backup, and not Ed Staniowski, who played nineteen games at 0.871?

It just seems like an odd choice unless you’re trying to distort things.

 

[yazmybaby]

It is very difficult to compare athletes in any sports during different time periods.
So many changes between eras to consider like the equipment used, speed of the shots, calibre of play, rules.

 

[Daximus]

I think if he can win another Vezina this season he is putting himself into the conversation for best goalie of this generation. The pack is quite small though. It's really just him, Vasi and Bob. Andersen has been good but wildly inconsistent and has some injury issues. Saros is probably in the conversation but has been up and down along with his team. Shesterkin and Sorokin are also elite but aren't as consistent.

Vasi had a run there of about 6 years where he was clearly #1. Two cups, Smythe, Vezina but has kinda fallen off. Bob is a bit more of the previous generation holding on like Fleury but has a bit of a resurgence that led to a Cup. Looks pretty rough so far this year.

If Helle can continue this elite play into his mid 30's he's got a real shot to continue rising up the rankings I think. Getting a Cup is the ultimate goal though and goalies seem to have such a massive effect on acquiring them. But I feel as the game wears on we will see more and more elite players retire without them. Never been harder to win a Cup than right now.

 

[Michael Farkas]

It's really just him, Vasi and Bob. Andersen has been good but wildly inconsistent and has some injury issues. Saros is probably in the conversation but has been up and down along with his team. Shesterkin and Sorokin are also elite but aren't as consistent.

Andersen is in the elite? Bob is in the elite? But Shestyorkin is labeled inconsistent?

Oh man...it's a little bit funny, because I'm in the goalie project, so every day it's nothing but goalie posts spanning 100+ years of goaltending...and somehow this is the goalie-related post that I've disagreed with most over the last few weeks haha

 

[Jets4Life]

I agree that Hellebuyck is above Liut handily by now, BUT I think you're well off in saying that Liut would barely make the top-10 of the 1980s. Whether we agree with it or not, he did win the Pearson, he was selected to start for Team Canada at the Canada Cup, and he won 65 games in back-to-back seasons (without overtimes). He had 4 or 5 fairly elite seasons between 1979-80 and 1989-90, so I'm pretty sure he'd be in the top 10 of that decade.

1.Billy Smith
2.Grant Fuhr
3. John Vanbiesbrouck
4. Pete Peeters
5. Patrick Roy
6. Mike Vernon
7. Mike Liut
8. Tom Barrasso
9. Andy Moog
10. Reggie lemelin


My top 10 goalies of the 80s. It's been a long time, so feel free to point out if my list is adequate.

 

[Daximus]

Andersen is in the elite? Bob is in the elite? But Shestyorkin is labeled inconsistent?

Oh man...it's a little bit funny, because I'm in the goalie project, so every day it's nothing but goalie posts spanning 100+ years of goaltending...and somehow this is the goalie-related post that I've disagreed with most over the last few weeks haha

Never said Andersen is elite. I said it's Helle, Vasi and Bob. Then started listing off the rest that are close. Maybe should have put a break in there before continuing on the rest of the list.

Compared to Helle? Yeah I'd say Shesterkin is less consistent. One season of play that is truly elite and then kinda spotty since.

Edit: As far as Bob goes for this generation he's been good. Since Helle has entered the league he's been playing well won a Vezina and a Cup but age looks like it's catching up.

Edit #2: I should have also said this is all about the time Helle has been in the league so really since about 2016 or so. It's really only Helle, Bob, Vasi at the top with a few guys who have been somewhat consistent or had an elite season here or there. If you have a rebuttal to that let's hear it.

 

[Jets4Life]

I think if he can win another Vezina this season he is putting himself into the conversation for best goalie of this generation. The pack is quite small though. It's really just him, Vasi and Bob. Andersen has been good but wildly inconsistent and has some injury issues. Saros is probably in the conversation but has been up and down along with his team. Shesterkin and Sorokin are also elite but aren't as consistent.

Vasi had a run there of about 6 years where he was clearly #1. Two cups, Smythe, Vezina but has kinda fallen off. Bob is a bit more of the previous generation holding on like Fleury but has a bit of a resurgence that led to a Cup. Looks pretty rough so far this year.

If Helle can continue this elite play into his mid 30's he's got a real shot to continue rising up the rankings I think. Getting a Cup is the ultimate goal though and goalies seem to have such a massive effect on acquiring them. But I feel as the game wears on we will see more and more elite players retire without them. Never been harder to win a Cup than right now.

The only knock on Hellebuyck is that he seemed to underperform in the playoffs the last two straight years. In 2018, Helle was incredible, especially in the Jets-Predators series, where he clearly outperformed Vezina goalie Pikka Renne. IN the Conference Finals, he ran into a hot Vegas team, and Fleury outplayed him.

2019, he wasn't bad as his stats were technically better than Binnington's, but the Blues proved to be too much. Helle played exceptional vs the Oilers in 2021, and was one of the main reasons the Jets upset the Oilers, but Price was clearly better in the Division Final vs Montreal.

Last years series against the Avalanche was a disaster for him, as he seemed snake-bitten. I guess the big question with Helle is, if he can go all the way in clutch time.

 

[Daximus]

The only knock on Hellebuyck is that he seemed to underperform in the playoffs the last two straight years. In 2018, Helle was incredible, especially in the Jets-Predators series, where he clearly outperformed Vezina goalie Pikka Renne. IN the Conference Finals, he ran into a hot Vegas team, and Fleury outplayed him.

2019, he wasn't bad as his stats were technically better than Binnington's, but the Blues proved to be too much. Helle played exceptional vs the Oilers in 2021, and was one of the main reasons the Jets upset the Oilers, but Price was clearly better in the Division Final vs Montreal.

Last years series against the Avalanche was a disaster for him, as he seemed snake-bitten. I guess the big question with Helle is, if he can go all the way in clutch time.

Last year was a disaster for the entire team. Helle takes a lot of the blame but man he was hung out to dry.

 

[JackSlater]

To me, there's five clear top post Brodeur goalies. Luongo, Lundqvist, Price, Vasilevsky, Hellebucyk.

I'd probably go in that order too.

That feels about right. Not necessarily the order, but those five together post-Brodeur.

I like Hellebucyk's game. Very hard to rate him all time but I doubt I could come up with 30 or 40 goaltenders I would want more. Steady, high level goaltending. In terms of the typical markers that people look for in terms of goaltenders greatness, a big playoffs followed by a Stanley Cup in WInnipeg would probably shoot him up very high for many, thinking above Parent at least.