Where Does Auston Matthews Rank For You As A Goal Scorer All Time?

[daver]

How is Sid objectively a top 20 goal scorer?

As of right now, within his own generation, Ovechkin, Matthews, Stamkos, Kovalchuk are better goal scorers.

And then add another 3-5 years of compiling, McDavid and Draisaitl will both pass him as well. Both have better goal finishes already, and have years to add more high-end finishes as well.

And then looking at that second list below: Iginla was better in my opinion, Pastrnak and Mackinnon can both definitely pass Crosby too, and then just for comparison purposes, other than the raw compiling, guys like Perry and Heatley are pretty on par to Crosby's too. Tavares is a throw in to illustrate that Crosbys top-end goal finishes aren't really that impressive other than 2 rockets.

Ovechkin	9 rockets
Matthews	1/1/1/2/3
Draisaitl	2/2/4/4/4
Stamkos	1/1/2/2/2/4/7/9
McDavid	1/2/6/6/7/10
Kovalchuk	1/2/3/4/6/6/7/8
Pastrnak	1/2/7/10
Perry	1/2/6/9/10
Iginla	1/1/3/3
Heatley	2/5/6/8/8/9
Crosby	1/1/7/7
Tavares	3/3/4/10
Mackinnon	4/6/9/9/9

During his era, soon to be a 20 year period, he is #2 in goals scored, #3 in GPG (among the Top 20 goalscorers), won two Rockets, 3rd in playoff goals, 3rd in playoff GPG (among the Top 10 goalscorers) and is T1 is most playoff goals in a single year.

All while being the best playmaker of his era.

He is deserving of a Top 20ish goalscoring descriptor. Not that it means very much anyways. He loses absolutely nothing to player's who are noted as better goalscorers; Crosby is measured offensively by his point production.

 

[Legion34]

Why are you telling me this?

Do you think I said Mike Bossy was the best goal scorer of all time?

That was what I responded to in the start

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Matthews is scoring 69 while being a selke finalist. Not sure if most people realize how insane that is

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Look at the goals in the 80s vs today.
This isn’t hard.

Rick freaking vaive had 3 50 goal seasons in a row.

Bossy being the best goal scorer ever despite only winning 2 rockets in his entire shortened career where he played 21-30 means there is no way he can be considered the best goal scorer of all time.


Neither is Matthews by the way. It’s silly to say bossy is the best goal scorer ever

Nobody has called Matthews the best goal scorer of all time I've not sure where You got that from.

 

[Fatass]

10 to 20 bracket.

 

[Regal]

During his era, soon to be a 20 year period, he is #2 in goals scored, #3 in GPG (among the Top 20 goalscorers), won two Rockets, 3rd in playoff goals, 3rd in playoff GPG (among the Top 10 goalscorers) and is T1 is most playoff goals in a single year.

All while being the best playmaker of his era.

He is deserving of a Top 20ish goalscoring descriptor. Not that it means very much anyways. He loses absolutely nothing to player's who are noted as better goalscorers; Crosby is measured offensively by his point production.

I guess it depends on how you view goalscorers. Crosby’s length of prime as a good goalscorer is very strong, but he was only among the best goalscorers in the league a handful of times. He passes his contemporaries in totals goals and GPG because of his lack of down years more than a number of great years. Personally I think great years are more important. Someone like Matthews being a much better goal scorer over his best 8 years is far more important and I’d already have him over Crosby. I don’t think Sid is very close to a top 20 goal scorer at all.

 

[Ol' Jase]

I guess it depends on how you view goalscorers. Crosby’s length of prime as a good goalscorer is very strong, but he was only among the best goalscorers in the league a handful of times. He passes his contemporaries in totals goals and GPG because of his lack of down years more than a number of great years. Personally I think great years are more important. Someone like Matthews being a much better goal scorer over his best 8 years is far more important and I’d already have him over Crosby. I don’t think Sid is very close to a top 20 goal scorer at all.

But then your argument is who has the best goal scoring peak years and not at all who is actually the best goal scorer of all time.

 

[AnomX]

After his first game, I thought he'd have way more by now.... very disappointed. For that reason, I'm out.

EDIT: This was sarcasm btw lol

 

[KrisLetAngry]

For all time goal scorers

Mario Lemeuix / Ovechkin - Seriously you can make a big time argument for Mario
Bossy
Hull
Matthews

I'd probably consider Matthews a projecyed top 5 goal scorer all time already

 

[kevsh]

His 0.654 GPG after 562 games are "all-time great" numbers.

That average will obviously slip some as he gets into his 30s but he's arguably (?) already locked in a spot among the top 10 all-time. If he gets another 60+ (or more) season under his belt, or just consistently puts up big numbers for a few more years top 5 is very much on the table.

 

[Regal]

But then your argument is who has the best goal scoring peak years and not at all who is actually the best goal scorer of all time.

More prime than peak I’d say. And I think the best goal scorer of all time should be largely based on your peak/prime. If someone is clearly better in their best 7-9 years or so, I don’t think aging better is enough to bridge the gap for the most part.

 

[Ol' Jase]

More prime than peak I’d say. And I think the best goal scorer of all time should be largely based on your peak/prime. If someone is clearly better in their best 7-9 years or so, I don’t think aging better is enough to bridge the gap for the most part.

All-time doesn't really equal peak/prime. At all.

 

[filinski77]

Like I said baring a career ending injury he's going to hit 600 career goals this yea, he's got an outside shot at 700 career goals and that's with being seen as more of a play maker.

How is a 600+ goal man, possibly a 700 career goal man not a top 20 goal scorer?

1) Very, very low peak. Adjusted-wise, his best 2 seasons are the T-69th and T-168th highest goal totals.

2) Only 4 seasons finishing top-10 in the league in goals.

3) Depending on how biased someone wants to look at it, he is at BEST the 3rd greatest goalscorer since 2005, and that's only because he has more games played (there is not a single argument for Crosby > Stamkos other than 40 more career goals). I'd say the same for Matthews too tbh - Crosby has 224 career goals on him, whereas outside of their matching 2x rockets, Crosby has a 2x 7th place finishes, and Matthews has an extra 1st, 2nd, 3rd place finish. But I'd still take Kovalchuk too (double the top-10 finishes, but 150 goals less).

So realistically he's the ~5th greatest of his era, and pretty much guaranteed to be passed by McDavid and Drai soon too.

Points #1 and #2 should be more than enough to not have him in the top-20. If Crosby is top-20, Iginla has to be like 15th RIGHT NOW. Better top-10 finishes, more career goals.

 

[DitchMarner]

All-time doesn't really equal peak/prime. At all.

Would you say Marleau is a better goal scorer than Bure? It's pretty clear who the better goal scorer was if you watched them. Bure led the NHL in goals three times. Marleau never came close to being first in goals.

I think a lot of people would call Bure the greater (more accomplished/decorated) goal scorer as well and would also put him ahead of guys like Gartner, Andreychuk and Ciccarelli in that regard even though he had fewer career goals than all of them.

 

[McPoyle]

Hes top 10 now, will continue to move up as he ages. Biggest blemish on his career right now is his playoffs.

 

[banks]

Hes top 10 now, will continue to move up as he ages. Biggest blemish on his career right now is his playoffs.

Agreed. Based on just his accomplishments to date, if he retired tomorrow, he's top 10.

He's been gunning for 50in50 for the last few years. It would be a pretty impressive feather in his cap if he can manage that once in his career. No one's been close to that but him in recent memory.

 

[Regal]

All-time doesn't really equal peak/prime. At all.

In your opinion. It’s not the only consideration, but in my opinion, it’s the most important, by far. Especially for goal scoring, where there’s usually a bigger difference between a players best and worst years than as an overall player. There’s a reason Bossy is a top 10 goalscorer despite only playing 10 years. Or that Bure is pretty much unanimously considered a better goalscorer than guys like Shanahan and Andreychuk. You don’t usually make up a significant gap in someone’s best years by having better longevity

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Currently" He's the best goal scorer in the league and it's not arguable. In the history of the league? He has a lot of miles to put behind him. I think other people have it right he's in the top 20 right now. I expect that will change but I've expected a lot of things in my life that didn't pan out.

 

[wetcoast]

It's a group of baseball fans that tried to quickly make a hockey website so it's littered with baseball origin errors.

Their roster size adjustments are structurally broken. They adjust to having star players of the 50s play only 15 minutes in the adjusted formula. If you look at adjusted scoring in the 50s and 60s star players are all structurally underestimated by 10-25%. You end up with Art Ross winners adjusting below 10th in scoring finishers from today. The creators don't care about hockey history and are only looking for Gretzky and more modern stats to "look" right.

No roster size adjustment size is needed for baseball so they never bothered to think it through.

I've bought it up to them several times and they just don't care. I hate how ubiquitous the stats are here because it's a lazy formula that's repeated everywhere.

You're right in that hockey reference adjusted stats don't work as well across different eras that are vastly different but they are a pretty decent baseline for players in relatively similar eras and contexts.

And I'll play devil's advocate for those that rightfully criticize adjusted stats and it's problems as it would be great in other stuff like top 10 finishes and vastly different talent streams were given the same critical treatment.

 

[kingsholygrail]

He's #138 right now.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Would you say Marleau is a better goal scorer than Bure? It's pretty clear who the better goal scorer was if you watched them. Bure led the NHL in goals three times. Marleau never came close to being first in goals.

I think a lot of people would call Bure the greater (more accomplished/decorated) goal scorer as well and would also put him ahead of guys like Gartner, Andreychuk and Ciccarelli in that regard even though he had fewer career goals than all of them.

Considering Marleau played over 1000 more games than Bure, the context here is ridiculous.

Considering Marleau isn’t remotely in the conversation of best goal scorers of all time, it’s even more ridiculous.

All-time can be pretty subjective, but when discussing the absolute best of all-time, of course longevity plays a role. Hence why Ovechkin has a solid argument as the greatest of all time and Bure doesn’t.

 

[PaulD]

Too early to rank him on my "all time list"

Matthews is scoring 69 while being a selke finalist. Not sure if most people realize how insane that is

and the sucks in the play offs ......not sure if most leaf fans know how insane that is.

 

[wetcoast]

Like I said baring a career ending injury he's going to hit 600 career goals this yea, he's got an outside shot at 700 career goals and that's with being seen as more of a play maker.

How is a 600+ goal man, possibly a 700 career goal man not a top 20 goal scorer?

Two words,

Mike Gartner

 

[Honour Over Glory]

What's this rush to rank a bloke on an All-time list when he hasn't even cracked top 100 for goal scorers all time yet.

The fact that Matthews hasn't even cracked the top 100 all time goal scorers list, maybe wait until he hits 30 and you get a better idea of what's left for him to catch so and so on the list of scorers.

 

[wetcoast]

During his era, soon to be a 20 year period, he is #2 in goals scored, #3 in GPG (among the Top 20 goalscorers), won two Rockets, 3rd in playoff goals, 3rd in playoff GPG (among the Top 10 goalscorers) and is T1 is most playoff goals in a single year.

All while being the best playmaker of his era.

He is deserving of a Top 20ish goalscoring descriptor. Not that it means very much anyways. He loses absolutely nothing to player's who are noted as better goalscorers; Crosby is measured offensively by his point production.

Without doing the historical math, my bet is that there are more than 20 guys that you can the same thought process for.