Where do you rank Seth Jones?

[Vex]

I want to make some Seth Jones shitposts, but I've already tipped my cap that I think he's extremely overrated and people will catch on.

Like, in the middle of a game where he's played nearly 30 minutes and been caved in for almost all of them, I want to jump into that game's GDT, say something like "Am I crazy for saying that outside of Connor McDavid, there is no player I would take before Seth Jones?" and see how many people like it unironically. But if I do that now I'll just confuse people lol.

You mean playing elite defense.

 

[BB06]

Analytics fools gonna have a field day. They’re just as annoying as the “only eye test” people.

They really are cancer and extremely dismissive. Funny that the stat stuffer GM are failing miserably. You love to see it,

 

[Paul4587]

Round 6-10. Maybe a touch higher.

 

[Dumais]

1

Idk about this taking over games, being the best physically, best scorer and whatnot...but his iq combined with his lanky frame makes him look like he's not having to try hard at all. And I would say his awareness is probably his best attribute. And while having Werenski as a partner has probably helped him develop; I think Ryan Murray (who plays like him) has probably had a bigger impact on him developing into the best defender IMO in the entire NHL.

I think Torts has had something to do with it too.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Analytics are certainly not the be all and end all, i know on a site like this they can reign supreme to win debates but NHL teams dont use them as the metric to determine if a player is elite. Dubas just said that Ceci's advanced stats are great, I think that tells you all you need to know. They are a good tool to use as a secondary metric but by no means are teams with strong front offices using it as a primary tool to make decisions.

Well front offices also have wayyyy different stats than you or I do as well. So I'd say the stats we have should be used as a secondary tool, because they can be so easily manipulated in an argument since there just isn't enough context in a lot of advanced stats we have access too.

 

[bsu]

He is the best defensemen in the league right now. Voted #1.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Literally the only thing that you said about your own eye test was that he is "good at both (offense and defense)" and you were hard pressed to even say that. You didn't explain in any way what about the eye test led you to conclude he is good at both offense and defense. I'm starting to think that you just don't really value the eye test.

Jones' strengths and weaknesses in both ends have been talked about multiple times in this thread, and on the thread in the main forum, including by yourself. I didn't realize you wanted me to re-hash an entire scouting report of every single thing he does well in the offensive end, neutral zone, and defensive zone when that's been covered already. So I simply summarized in general why I think he's elite.

If that's not good enough for you, then I don't know what to tell you. I think he's somewhere in the Top 10, you think he's 31+. Agree to disagree.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

Jones' strengths and weaknesses in both ends have been talked about multiple times in this thread, and on the thread in the main forum, including by yourself. I didn't realize you wanted me to re-hash an entire scouting report of every single thing he does well in the offensive end, neutral zone, and defensive zone when that's been covered already. So I simply summarized in general why I think he's elite.

If that's not good enough for you, then I don't know what to tell you. I think he's somewhere in the Top 10, you think he's 31+. Agree to disagree.

You stated with 100% certainty that anybody who has him outside of the top-15 must have an improper evaluation process, and then provided appeal to authority arguments and the incredibly vague statement that he is "good at both (offense and defense)." I pressed you, time and time again to explain what makes him good at both offense and defense, in your eye, and you have provided me with absolutely nothing. How on earth would that be good enough to support your initial claim?

 

[aufheben]

What do the stats say about Werenski vs. Jones? I'm curious.

They say (the ones I’ve looked at recently) that they’re both 1D’s and roughly equal in value if not a slight edge to Werenski.

Like...no one is saying Seth Jones is bad.

These are from a couple of sources, via Dom Luszczyszyn's GSVA (The Athletic), Natural Stat Trick, MoneyPuck, corsica. I don't know what Evolving-Hockey and Hockeyviz have to say on the matter though.

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

23rd

 

[Skate2Stick]

I’d love to have this guy on my team

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Some high level IQ there from Jones in the last minute. Repeatedly following his uncovered puck-carrying teammate to bring a defender towards him.

 

[FLHabs]

Man, the Seth Jones sweepstakes when he become UFA in a couple years will be fun to watch hehe

 

[ClevelandUke]

Man, the Seth Jones sweepstakes when he become UFA in a couple years will be fun to watch hehe

Someone actually thinks Jones is hitting UFA.....yikes...

 

[FLHabs]

Someone actually thinks Jones is hitting UFA.....yikes...

Lol you never know, he's gonna ask for big money, will they pay him? They're gonna pay Dubois after this year. Werenski(RFA) and Jones are both up the same year. Columbus is a small market team, how deep are the owners pockets? I'm not saying they won't sign him, but if decides to test the market he's gonna be offered big bucks seeing he's like top 5 in not top 3 Dman in the league, you never know that's all I'm saying

 

[majormajor]

Some high level IQ there from Jones in the last minute. Repeatedly following his uncovered puck-carrying teammate to bring a defender towards him.

I didn't see much IQ from Seth in this game, to be honest. Great player but didn't connect a lot of plays tonight and just seemed mentally fatigued. He's such a great skater, he'll get there, but the decision making tonight was bad for him and a lot of his teammates. Amazing it took until this far given that he's played an insane amount of minutes in the last couple weeks.

 

[majormajor]

Lol you never know, he's gonna ask for big money, will they pay him? They're gonna pay Dubois after this year. Werenski(RFA) and Jones are both up the same year. Columbus is a small market team, how deep are the owners pockets? I'm not saying they won't sign him, but if decides to test the market he's gonna be offered big bucks seeing he's like top 5 in not top 3 Dman in the league, you never know that's all I'm saying

We do know some things - Columbus will open the checkbook for him. It's a kind of small market team but they have decent revenues and ownership has never hesitated to spend to the cap.

 

[hockeynorth]

Because we were running fantasy draft games over on the HF Games thread I had to have a Dman list ranking ready, mine goes like thisL

1. Hedman
2. Josi
---
3. Hamilton <-- I'm super high on him though, maybe biased
4. Pietrangelo
5. Jones
6. Karlsson <-- yes he's still good
7. Theodore
8. Carlson <-- I don't like his game at all but sure he can go here
---
9. Heiskanen
10. Dahlin
11. Makar
12. Burns
13. Hughes
14. Doughty <-- Think he's going downhill but still decent enough to be top 15 if he had a better team
15. Chabot
16. Klingberg
17. Slavin
18. Letang
19. Giordano
20. Reilly
---
21. Ellis
22. Weber
23. McAvoy
24. Werenski
25. Lindholm
26. Provorov
27. Suter
28. Ekblad
29. Ekman-Larsson
30. Spurgeon
31. Parayko

 

[Leafmealone11]

I would imagine most teams would trade thrir top defender for this guy,the few that wouldn't are hope and hype that the high scoring kid might one day be good at stopping the other team from scoring.
Easily top 5

 

[SotasicA]

The best in the world.

 

[Sweetpotato]

To those who aren't going to read the whole thread.

1: "Jones stats are poor, he's not an elite D"

2: "He's not going to have good stats when Columbus plays a certain way that isn't conducive to getting those results. If you watch his games he's an absolute horse and is key to Columbus' success"

1: "I don't think you heard me right, I said HE DOESN'T HAVE GOOD STATS, HES NOT AN ELITE DEFENSEMAN"

 

[Sundinisagod]

Top 5 easily. Probably on his way to #1

Too bad Tampa passed on him. Where would you rank a Hedman - Jones pairing on the all time list?

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

To those who aren't going to read the whole thread.

1: "Jones stats are poor, he's not an elite D"

2: "He's not going to have good stats when Columbus plays a certain way that isn't conducive to getting those results. If you watch his games he's an absolute horse and is key to Columbus' success"

1: "I don't think you heard me right, I said HE DOESN'T HAVE GOOD STATS, HES NOT AN ELITE DEFENSEMAN"

Actually, the counter argument from 1 has been more along the lines of “Columbus has been getting comparable or superior results without Seth Jones to the results that they have with him.”

Then they explain that it’s hard to reconcile Jones being so great or his unspectacular metrics being a fault of his team, then ask the other side to explain what Jones does so well by their eye test, and the other side fails to do so.

 

[DitchMarner]

Actually, the counter argument from 1 has been more along the lines of “Columbus has been getting comparable or superior results without Seth Jones to the results that they have with him.”

Then they explain that it’s hard to reconcile Jones being so great or his unspectacular metrics being a fault of his team, then ask the other side to explain what Jones does so well by their eye test, and the other side fails to do so.

I'm not sure people overrate him because of the "eye test" per se. It may be more a case of hearing all the hype surrounding a particular player, knowing he logs a lot of minutes, hearing praise from different sources heaped upon him, watching the occasional highlight package in which he looks good and watching his team now and then and noticing a few good plays that he makes and assuming he really is as good as advertised.

From what I've seen of him, he does look good, but I don't focus exclusively on one particular player when I watch games. There is a lot you miss if you're watching the overall action, especially if you are cheering for the team that a certain player is playing against.

If you're seeing a few quality plays that Jones does make and listening to the commentators while they talk about how much of a horse he is, how many minutes he logs, how he is Columbus' top (or co-best) defenseman and watching talented teams struggle to score against the Blue Jackets as a team (especially five on five), there's a good chance you'll end up with the impression that he is in fact one of the League's best defensemen or have that opinion reinforced.

I don't have a firm opinion of him one way or the other. He's a physically strong defenseman who skates well for his size and has a hard shot. He has a lot of stamina and generally looks quite impressive, but there is a lack (if not absence) of statistical evidence that he is elite. I just leave it at that.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I rank Jones pretty highly right now because of his defensive ability. I’ll probably never have him at 1 because I value puck movement, and offensive creativity quite highly. But, there’s a lot of value in what Jones does.

Eventually I think he’ll be surpassed by the young defenceman that burst onto the scene the last couple years.