Where do you guys stand?

[Sol]

We just haven't seen much in the way of a decline out of Kopi, the guy really doesn't get injured and doesn't rely on speed. He has a big size and strength advantage on the NHL which won't really go away, he has excellent puck position and hockey IQ and plays a very responsible positional game. I don't really see those things declining rapidly, sure he will decline but so long as he continues to avoid major injuries I have a hard time understanding why we would expect a sudden rapid decline.

This is way too hopeful. Kings haven't had players age gracefully on this team for an eternity. Look at Getzlaf who's a tad bit older than him. His hockey IQ was why he was the best players on the Ducks. He's too slow now and his hands aren't what they used to be. Kopitar is getting there visibly. He's gotten slower and his hands aren't as good as they used to be. He was getting stick checked more than I've seen him this year. Expecting Kopitar to age gracefully is a risk the Kings shouldn't be banking on at all. Kopitar has 2 solid current level play good years left in him tops imo. Time doesn't do well for slow players. Thornton wasn't ever a fast player either.

So far this poll has shown that there's different view points among the fanbase. However most think the Kings need a player outside of the organization, just the "how" is where the disagreement is.

If the the NHL knows something about Eichels situation that should suggest its not that big of a deal then the Kings should be on it. He will be the best King for the nest 5 years at least.

 

[Rusty Batch]

This is way too hopeful. Kings haven't had players age gracefully on this team for an eternity. Look at Getzlaf who's a tad bit older than him. His hockey IQ was why he was the best players on the Ducks. He's too slow now and his hands aren't what they used to be. Kopitar is getting there visibly. He's gotten slower and his hands aren't as good as they used to be. He was getting stick checked more than I've seen him this year. Expecting Kopitar to age gracefully is a risk the Kings shouldn't be banking on at all. Kopitar has 2 solid current level play good years left in him tops imo. Time doesn't do well for slow players. Thornton wasn't ever a fast player either.

So far this poll has shown that there's different view points among the fanbase. However most think the Kings need a player outside of the organization, just the "how" is where the disagreement is.

If the the NHL knows something about Eichels situation that should suggest its not that big of a deal then the Kings should be on it. He will be the best King for the nest 5 years at least.

Meh, Kopitar has already aged gracefully. The guy is well past the age most players have already fallen off a cliff and he's still out producing young all-star caliber players and doing it in a boring system with a terribly weak supporting cast.

People fawn over guys like Matthew Tkachuck who in his prime with Elias Lindholm and Johnny Hockey on his line can't put up more points than old ass Kopitar getting every tough assignment.

As Kopitar slowly declines the talent around him will improve.

 

[Basilisk]

Even when the Kings weren't a good team, we always had Bob Miller's professionalism & passion to look forward to, game after game. Now there's not even that. The Kings upper management needs to perform a global talent search to find the next Bob Miller. Otherwise, losing will actually feel like losing, and I might just have to find a replacement hobby.


PS: Why won't Carrlyn Bathe ....???

 

[Herby]

I don't see how this meshes with your previous comment about lack of improvement. If the Kings didn't improve last season that means they are too far off from making a trade that would make a meaningful impact (Even if it is/was Eichel).

The Kings went down that road for 40 years and it took the patience of a rebuild to make it happen. You can't have it both ways. The team has to be on the cusp because one player and the assets expended have never been worthwhile unless a team is right there.

Jack Eichel is 24 years old (something I think is forgotten a lot)

Trading for Eichel is way more for the next wave and getting it another foundational piece which it currently lacks than it is for trying to compete in the final years of 11 and 8. I want to do this trade because I envision it leading to the Eichel/Byfield era which I think gives you the two star centers which makes it much easier to supplement around, as DL was able to do with 11 and 8. Although yes it does make the Kings a better team next year. I just don’t think the Kings can win a SC with QB (assuming he hits) and a bunch of secondary pieces because historically those types of rebuilds have just not had very much success. I’d prefer a rebuild more like our last one or the one a bunch of other teams did that is built around Hall of Fame caliber talent and then supplemented with secondary pieces either through trades, draft or FA.

Now granted that usually isn't done by trading a few Camry caliber assets for a Maserati, it's usually done by drafting a couple of Maserati's and then adding the Camry's, but Maserati's usually don't hit the open market and the Kings have a massive surplus of Camry's and only one Maserati, so I think it makes a alot of sense.

I have an ideological difference with a lot of people here in that I think secondary assets are way overrated and overvalued compared to game changing players. We watched the Kings try and build around assets like that many times before, and only saw the team find success when it did a rebuild the right way and added multiple Hall of Fame caliber players as the foundation.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Big trade. Don't care if it's a star coming in or a star going out.

The Kings need more high end players for the next wave to be successful.

The Islanders have 1 guy and a bunch of depth so does MTL and their star is in net.

 

[Herby]

The Islanders have 1 guy and a bunch of depth so does MTL and their star is in net.

It's not impossible. The Blues are another example of a team that it worked for.

But you can't deny that it's been a much less successful strategy than what Pittsburgh, Chicago, LA and Tampa have done the last 10-15 years.

I'll take the more proven strategy that has produced multiple cup winners than trying to emulate the Islanders and Blues.

 

[Mats26]

The Islanders have 1 guy and a bunch of depth so does MTL and their star is in net.

Right, and TampBay drafted and develop their skill players. Then went out to trade and sign for grit and depth. I have not seen one example when a team depleted a prospect pool to get a star player that lead them to a cup win. This ain't the NBA.

 

[Herby]

Right, and TampBay drafted and develop their skill players. Then went out to trade and sign for grit and depth. I have not seen one example when a team depleted a prospect pool to get a star player that lead them to a cup win. This ain't the NBA.

Define "depleted" ?

If the Kings were to trade say Turcotte, the #8, Madden and Clague

The Kings still have

Byfield
Kaliyev
Vilardi
Kupari
Fagemo
Andersson
Thomas
Bjornfot
Faber
Anderson
Grans
Hults

That is a depleted prospect pool?

 

[Mats26]

Define "depleted" ?

If the Kings were to trade say Turcotte, the #8, Madden and Clague

The Kings still have

Byfield
Kaliyev
Vilardi
Kupari
Fagemo
Andersson
Thomas
Bjornfot
Faber
Anderson
Grans
Hults

That is a depleted prospect pool?

Sabers want 4 x 1st so think Turcotte, Kempe, #8 and another prospect. (Not even sure if that is enough)
Then we need a top LD , deplete more resources for that.
No prospect including Kaliyev is ready next year for the top line.
Then we need to upgrade on wings. Unless you want Eichel to play with Moore and Iaffalo.
Then the cap for 3 years is tight with Kopitar, Eichel, Doughty making 30+ million.
.
.
.

I can go on but we are 1 year too early for an major 10 million dollar investment on a 1C that we have and another potential 1C waiting in the wings. Get me a top LD man this year with new core leadership and see what the prospects have at the NHL level before shipping them off.

 

[Kudelski37]

Add smaller pieces and either make the playoffs while giving the prospects competition for roster spots or flame out and draft Shane Wright. I think Wright and QB could provide that 1-2 punch like Crosby-Malkin.

 

[SFKingshomer]

I keep going back and forth. I like the Eichel idea but his injury is scary and a move like that can set the franchise back several years. He's a great player but I'm not sure anyone is worth 4 1st round picks in a cap era.

 

[Herby]

Sabers want 4 x 1st so think Turcotte, Kempe, #8 and another prospect. (Not even sure if that is enough)
Then we need a top LD , deplete more resources for that.
No prospect including Kaliyev is ready next year for the top line.
Then we need to upgrade on wings. Unless you want Eichel to play with Moore and Iaffalo.
Then the cap for 3 years is tight with Kopitar, Eichel, Doughty making 30+ million.
.
I can go on but we are 1 year too early for an major 10 million dollar investment on a 1C that we have and another potential 1C waiting in the wings. Get me a top LD man this year with new core leadership and see what the prospects have at the NHL level before shipping them off.

There won't be an Eichel caliber player available next year though. If you don't want to get him that is fine, but atleast acknowledge this is an insanely rare situation for a player this young and this good to be on the market. Saying "Well we can get another 1C next summer" is not a realistic statement to make.

I'm not really worried about next years team, as I said trading for Eichel is more for the next wave down the road than next year. I know some of my fellow pro-Eichel people want to do it to appease DD, and maybe it also accomplishes that, but I think the reason you do it is to stick him and Byfield together as your 1-2 center punch for the next wave. Your wingers become Kaliyev, Iafallo, Kempe, Vilardi, Kupari, Fagemo and maybe a FA. If Kempe is included in the deal too its not some kind of deal breaker. I like Kempe and think there is a possibility he figures it all out, but at this point he's been nothing but a disappointment at the NHL level.

And thank you for your reply, I just mostly objected to the hyperbolic "depleted" term, which many others have used as well. The Kings prospect pool is so insanely deep that no trade (unless it includes QB) is going to deplete or do significant damage to the Kings prospect pool. How many center prospects do you need? If I have Eichel and QB, I still have Kopitar for a couple more years, I have JAD, plus I have Kupari and Vilardi as likely wingers capable of playing center why am I worried about trading a likely 2C in Turcotte and a maybe 2C in Madden? This years 1st rounder is a minimal asset with how weak this draft is, I'd be more concerned with trading picks in the next 2 drafts to be honest.

Trading our 1st in say 2023 without protections and then having Doughty pull a Karlsson or Eichel getting injured is to me a much bigger risk than trading the #8 this year, Turcotte, Vilardi, Kupari, Madden etc.

 

[SFKingshomer]

I don't have the doctors pros do but the neck is scary. I've had back and neck issues for over 2 years since my fall and I haven't been anywhere close to 100% since. I've been to 3 chiropractors, physical therapy, massage therapy, etc. for a narrowing of the spine. There are days where I can't hardly get out of bed. Eichel is also ignoring multiple doctors recommendations to have a surgery never been done before.

 

[YP44]

1 or 2 for me. Try and get 1 but if cost is too high than do 2

 

[johnjm22]

Define "depleted" ?

If the Kings were to trade say Turcotte, the #8, Madden and Clague

The Kings still have

Byfield
Kaliyev
Vilardi
Kupari
Fagemo
Andersson
Thomas
Bjornfot
Faber
Anderson
Grans
Hults

That is a depleted prospect pool?

The problem is, if you trade for Eichel, you're in "win now" mode, but your team still isn't good. So you have to start trading away more of your prospect pool for immediate help.

Before you know it, you're a middling playoff bubble team with a mediocre prospect pool.

It's the path to the black hole.

 

[Herby]

The problem is, if you trade for Eichel, you're in "win now" mode, but your team still isn't good. So you have to start trading away more of your prospect pool for immediate help.

Before you know it, you're a middling playoff bubble team with a mediocre prospect pool.

It's the path to the black hole.

I disagree about being in win-now mode.

I don't believe the Kings can win another Stanley Cup in the Kopitar era, maybe at the very end if QB really explodes next year and is a legit beast the year after and Kopi is a lockdown 3C in his final year. Doughty I think it's possible but even Drew is getting old.

I'm trying to look beyond the Kopitar/Doughty era and trying to build the next era. I think having 2 centers that talented, who turn 19 and 25 this season is a pretty nice start.

 

[bland]

Define "depleted" ?

If the Kings were to trade say Turcotte, the #8, Madden and Clague

The Kings still have

Byfield
Kaliyev
Vilardi
Kupari
Fagemo
Andersson
Thomas
Bjornfot
Faber
Anderson
Grans
Hults

That is a depleted prospect pool?

Considering Eichel will need wingers, the bottom six will need ballast and you are still a top pairing defender short of doing anything substantial, yes, your plan strip mines the asset list nearly bare unless you think Eichel wants to play on another team that is years away from contending while the team around him develops at the same pace it would without him in the first place. If you don't add around Eichel it is pointless to acquire him, and you need to add a whole lot to make it worth it.

And that is considering that he has no further neck issues.

There are stars available every year, its just too early to make a big deal.

 

[Mats26]

There won't be an Eichel caliber player available next year though. If you don't want to get him that is fine, but atleast acknowledge this is an insanely rare situation for a player this young and this good to be on the market. Saying "Well we can get another 1C next summer" is not a realistic statement to make.

I'm not really worried about next years team, as I said trading for Eichel is more for the next wave down the road than next year. I know some of my fellow pro-Eichel people want to do it to appease DD, and maybe it also accomplishes that, but I think the reason you do it is to stick him and Byfield together as your 1-2 center punch for the next wave. Your wingers become Kaliyev, Iafallo, Kempe, Vilardi, Kupari, Fagemo and maybe a FA. If Kempe is included in the deal too its not some kind of deal breaker. I like Kempe and think there is a possibility he figures it all out, but at this point he's been nothing but a disappointment at the NHL level.

And thank you for your reply, I just mostly objected to the hyperbolic "depleted" term, which many others have used as well. The Kings prospect pool is so insanely deep that no trade (unless it includes QB) is going to deplete or do significant damage to the Kings prospect pool. How many center prospects do you need? If I have Eichel and QB, I still have Kopitar for a couple more years, I have JAD, plus I have Kupari and Vilardi as likely wingers capable of playing center why am I worried about trading a likely 2C in Turcotte and a maybe 2C in Madden? This years 1st rounder is a minimal asset with how weak this draft is, I'd be more concerned with trading picks in the next 2 drafts to be honest.

First mistake it to assume that all those prospects will make it. How many top line forwards did we develop in that last 10 years.... 1 maybe in Toffoli? There is alot of middle-bottom 6 forwards on that list. Only one, Kaliyev possibly has top line winger potential. Byfeild, Turcotte and Vilardi should and hopefully be in our top 6.(fingers crossed). Removing 1 or 2 of these players in a trade will make a dent and needs to be replaced via UFAs or another trades.

Second mistake is to ship some of the young talent out when you don't really know what their ceiling might be at the NHL level yet. They are still evaluating the prospects. We'll be more clear on what they can do at the next level in 12 months. That doesn't mean we should not eventually use them as assets but it will be to fill a huge need. And for me it's on the wings and a top LD man.

3rd. Cap space. I ran a few lineup projects with Eichel and like I said he'll play with Moore\Iaffallo because we won't have cap space to attract new UFA wingers. Add the Moore, Anderson and UFA Dman, and we'll have to make some more moves like trading Brown to give us some flexability.

As for Eichel, I like the player, but health, costs and his huge cap is no go for me.
Get him cheap, healthy with some cap retention or sending back salary, then it's another story.

 

[johnjm22]

I disagree about being in win-now mode.

Then Eichel won't want to be here.

I'm trying to look beyond the Kopitar/Doughty era and trying to build the next era. I think having 2 centers that talented, who turn 19 and 25 this season is a pretty nice start.

So Eichel will be about 28-29 when the Kings might contend again? That's the exact type situation he's trying to escape.

Might as well just hold on to Turcotte then, because he'll probably be pretty in good in 3 or 4 years.

 

[Token]

If Blake can weaponize the cap or forward protection list, by all means do it!

Other than that, sign or trade B prospects and picks for mid-level wingers in the 4-6M range for 2-3 years and let the kids play their waiver exempt years in the A.

 

[Herby]

First mistake it to assume that all those prospects will make it. How many top line forwards did we develop in that last 10 years.... 1 maybe in Toffoli? There is alot of middle-bottom 6 forwards on that list. Only one, Kaliyev possibly has top line winger potential. Byfeild, Turcotte and Vilardi should and hopefully be in our top 6.(fingers crossed). Removing 1 or 2 of these players in a trade will make a dent and needs to be replaced via UFAs or another trades.

Second mistake is to ship some of the young talent out when you don't really know what their ceiling might be at the NHL level yet. They are still evaluating the prospects. We'll be more clear on what they can do at the next level in 12 months. That doesn't mean we should not eventually use them as assets but it will be to fill a huge need. And for me it's on the wings and a top LD man.

3rd. Cap space. I ran a few lineup projects with Eichel and like I said he'll play with Moore\Iaffallo because we won't have cap space to attract new UFA wingers. Add the Moore, Anderson and UFA Dman, and we'll have to make some more moves like trading Brown to give us some flexability.

As for Eichel, I like the player, but health, costs and his huge cap is no go for me.
Get him cheap, healthy with some cap retention or sending back salary, then it's another story.

Trust me, you are preaching to the choir on point 1. You might want to tell that to the other fans who insist that this group of prospects will be different no matter what. Yes, you are right, there are a bunch of secondary prospects on the list and not much high end. Thank Rob Blake for picking the wrong guys in 2017 and 2019. Its QB and a bunch of guys who project as 2nd liners or 3rd liners, I agree. But there is still a lot of depth.

The second part is a two-way street, what if the prospects aren't as good this year and lose value. Your thinking would basically mean a team never trades prospects for stars, yet it has happened many times throughout the history of the NHL, sometimes for good, sometimes for not.

Nothing wrong with playing Iafallo with Eichel. Why does everyone underrate Iafallo? He had 43 points in 70 games two years ago playing largely against other teams top lines with Kopi, he would be fine playing in a non-defensive role with Eichel. Where are you getting Moore from? What is wrong with an Iafallo/Eichel/Vilardi or Kaliyev/Eichel/Vilardi line next season?

The last part I don't understand. You aren't getting a healthy and retained Jack Eichel for the offers people are posting now. If Eichel were healthy than the offers are centered on Byfield, and rightfully so. The appeal is getting a 24 year old star with some injury risk without giving up any high end elite guys like you normally would in this situation.

 

[Rusty Batch]

I would do our next 4 firsts in a heartbeat for Eichel

 

[Mats26]

Trust me, you are preaching to the choir on point 1. You might want to tell that to the other fans who insist that this group of prospects will be different no matter what. Yes, you are right, there are a bunch of secondary prospects on the list and not much high end. Thank Rob Blake for picking the wrong guys in 2017 and 2019. Its QB and a bunch of guys who project as 2nd liners or 3rd liners, I agree. But there is still a lot of depth.

The second part is a two-way street, what if the prospects aren't as good this year and lose value. Your thinking would basically mean a team never trades prospects for stars, yet it has happened many times throughout the history of the NHL, sometimes for good, sometimes for not.

Nothing wrong with playing Iafallo with Eichel. Why does everyone underrate Iafallo? He had 43 points in 70 games two years ago playing largely against other teams top lines with Kopi, he would be fine playing in a non-defensive role with Eichel. Where are you getting Moore from? What is wrong with an Iafallo/Eichel/Vilardi or Kaliyev/Eichel/Vilardi line next season?

The last part I don't understand. You aren't getting a healthy and retained Jack Eichel for the offers people are posting now. If Eichel were healthy than the offers are centered on Byfield, and rightfully so. The appeal is getting a 24 year old star with some injury risk without giving up any high end elite guys like you normally would in this situation.

I have been harping on the development staff going back years. Thought they should invest in that area and remove the coutry club mentality. I do like the Wrobo hire and progress the AHL club made in the 2nd half. At this point you got to have faith in your prospects and development staff right? Or else why rebuild if you can't develop the talent. So I guess I'll take the risk and see how the prospects develop next year. Really, all of them did pretty well. Turcotte and his health, Vilardi and his skating are my only concern at the moment. With Madden, ending up being a collar bone injury so he should not have any affects (concussion like) going forward.

I also liked what I saw in terms of offense, they just need more maturity, build up some chemistry. We are really missing a top end d man. Maybe Grans can be that guy, but we really need an establish one on the NHL roster and a bluechip in the pipeline. Again, not saying they can't be trading propsects but they need to be sure about what they are giving away.

As far as Iafallo...we need to turn the page on him being a top line winger. He needs to play in the middle 6. He is just as effective there and allow a more dynmic LW to play top line minutes. Same for Brown. If 37 year old Brown lead this team again in scoring...we have issues.

Eichel. The facts don't change. He is injured, no one knows what the future holds for his health. If we get him cheap sure...but no thanks to 4 x 1st picks and a 10 million cap hit.

 

[YP44]

I would do our next 4 firsts in a heartbeat for Eichel

would it be better to offer sheet Elia Peterson or Svechnikov then?

it never would happen, but when the cap is flat if ever there was time for Blake to be a dink and take full advantage of the flat cap this is how.

 

[Choralone]

How can the team even evaluate which of its prospects are going to be players at this point. I know not all will pan out, but the question is which ones? The last year was completely unprecedented. Our pants are not on fire - wait a year, and do some cost-efficient adds where needed.