OT: Where do the Sens rank in the Atlantic for 2024-2025?

[bert]

That's how I see it. The team has improved in more areas and as a whole than just the massive goaltending upgrade on Korpisalo imo.

Players should be able to slot better up front and on D. I as per my other posts the D are light they need one more guy that can play left. I am very confident in Kleven he can really move for his size his gaps are awesome and his puck handling and ability to make a first pass is way better than i expected. They developed him properly slowly as you should with big D men. JBD while unspectacular has shown steady improvement. He makes good defensive reads, he's got a good stick and he does get in lanes he's just light to be a defensive D man. Hopefully he had a big summer he's 24 can still be maturing into his body and putting weight on. Players have defined roles goes a long way and the way the roster is constructed everyone is going to know what it is. Will be up to them to perform but as per Andlauer has repeated which seems to be his MO. He wants to give his people every opportunity to succeed so there is no excuses.

Cousins, Scandella and Shattenkirk to camp to win spots would be ideal.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

What worries me a bit is that kind of similar to us, Buffalo does have some arguments for improving internally

-Tage Thompson apparently had a wrist injury most of last season
-Jack Quinn and Zach Benson should be healthier+have continued development
-their bottom six is quite a bit better as well

 

[Sensators]

Florida
Boston
Toronto
Tampa bay
Buffalo
Ottawa
Detroit
Montreal

2-7 are closer than they used to be...I'm always higher on Buffalo than they do. That d core looks nice and they got decent forwards too. Quinn will be interesting.

 

[Xspyrit]

Math works just fine the only teams ahead of Ottawa in the Metro are Rangers, Canes and Devils. The east is deep but light in top end teams. I dont think were gonna see a team in the entire east below 75 points.

The number of pts of these teams seems low as they were 6 of the top-9 teams in the conference in your scenario

1. Toronto 105
2. Boston 100
3. Florida 98
4. Buffalo 97
5. Tampa 96
6. Ottawa 93

I mean, if these totals are at the top, how many pts would teams 10-16 have? With "loser pts", it should end up quite higher overall. I could be wrong, not that it matters much

Dont agree at all. This version if the team is actually built with winning hockey games in mind not a video game where you accumulate the most possible talent. The younger players are a year older and they get an entire season of Pinto. Kleven is an upgrade on Brannstrom.

I hope you're right but I think the improvement comes from goaltending, Stutzle and Sanderson's progression, (hopefully) more healthy seasons from Chabot and Norris and a coaching staff that finally knows how to have the group play as a structured NHL team, a bit like JM was able to do after mid January (results and metrics were better)

That said, you do absolutely need A LOT of talent in the NHL today as the competition is fierce.

And Kleven might not be an upgrade on Brannstrom right away, yes "optically" and physically but in terms of preventing scoring chances and creating them so xGF%), probably not. Brannstrom is excellent at transition and if Kleven is paired with Hamonic (lol) or JBD, he might get hemmed in his zone a lot (also depends on coaching)

That's how I see it. The team has improved in more areas and as a whole than just the massive goaltending upgrade on Korpisalo imo.

Outside of goaltending, the Improvements IMO have to come from Sanderson, Stutzle, Chabot, Norris, Pinto, Greig... and hopefully not much regress from other players (Giroux and Perron are 36)

But outside of that, where do you see improvements?

Perron vs Tarasenko
Amadio vs Joseph
Gregor vs Kelly
Jensen vs Chychrun
Kleven vs Brannstrom

 

[Micklebot]

Perron vs Tarasenko
Amadio vs Joseph
Gregor vs Kelly
Jensen vs Chychrun
Kleven vs Brannstrom

In a vacuum, most of these moves are fairly lateral, maybe even a slight downgrade, but it's more about fit.

Perron adds a grit that Tank doesn't have, he's great along the boards, and the team in general lacked what he brings last year. He may not score as much, but we have other guys for that.

Similarly, Jensen vs Chychrun, sure we're giving up some offense, but we fill a desperate need of Defensive RHD depth. After Zub is was either Hamonic or JBD last year, having 4 offensive minded LHD meant an imbalance on the PK as well.

Kleven for Brannstrom again swaps out something we had in abundance (puck moving LHD) for something we lacked (Physical defensive Dman)

Idk if they will work out as planned, but you can tell that Staios is building a team of players to fill roles, instead of a collection of good players regardless of the roles we need to fill.

 

[bicboi64]

Idk if they will work out as planned, but you can tell that Staios is building a team of players to fill roles, instead of a collection of good players regardless of the roles we need to fill.

Agreed here. We have a more balanced team, even if its less "talented" in terms of scoring. Also think Staios is less glued to the previous core so he'll be willing to move someone like Chabot or Norris if we get someone else who's a better fit for his vision of the roster.

 

[bert]

The number of pts of these teams seems low as they were 6 of the top-9 teams in the conference in your scenario

1. Toronto 105
2. Boston 100
3. Florida 98
4. Buffalo 97
5. Tampa 96
6. Ottawa 93

I mean, if these totals are at the top, how many pts would teams 10-16 have? With "loser pts", it should end up quite higher overall. I could be wrong, not that it matters much



I hope you're right but I think the improvement comes from goaltending, Stutzle and Sanderson's progression, (hopefully) more healthy seasons from Chabot and Norris and a coaching staff that finally knows how to have the group play as a structured NHL team, a bit like JM was able to do after mid January (results and metrics were better)

That said, you do absolutely need A LOT of talent in the NHL today as the competition is fierce.

And Kleven might not be an upgrade on Brannstrom right away, yes "optically" and physically but in terms of preventing scoring chances and creating them so xGF%), probably not. Brannstrom is excellent at transition and if Kleven is paired with Hamonic (lol) or JBD, he might get hemmed in his zone a lot (also depends on coaching)



Outside of goaltending, the Improvements IMO have to come from Sanderson, Stutzle, Chabot, Norris, Pinto, Greig... and hopefully not much regress from other players (Giroux and Perron are 36)

But outside of that, where do you see improvements?

Perron vs Tarasenko
Amadio vs Joseph
Gregor vs Kelly
Jensen vs Chychrun
Kleven vs Brannstrom

I literally listed how the two bottom teams in the division still have 88 and 87 points....... In my post I talk about how much parity there is going to be in the east with very few high end teams. But not very many bad ones either. I think the teams with the 3 best records in the east will be in the Metro.

As for the rest of your post you really dont seem to grasp the concept of players playing in their correct roles and teams are being built with a purpose. Not just accumulating as much talent as they can when its fitting a square peg into a round hole. They have a better HOCKEY team this year. Players with defined roles and jobs, playing in positions to succeed. Players that are not inconsistent, that have more leadership and hockey sense. For all the hating you do on Dorion you dont seem to recognize that his biggest fault of all was not understanding how to build a hockey team. He has never been in a room he doesnt know the sport this way. He was a good scout, he could identify talent he could not and did not know how to build a winner with a strong culture. Thankfully real hockey people are making the decisions now that have actually been there.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Where do they rank in the East?

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Where do they rank in the East?

6-11

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Outside of goaltending, the Improvements IMO have to come from Sanderson, Stutzle, Chabot, Norris, Pinto, Greig... and hopefully not much regress from other players (Giroux and Perron are 36)

But outside of that, where do you see improvements?

Perron vs Tarasenko
Amadio vs Joseph
Gregor vs Kelly
Jensen vs Chychrun
Kleven vs Brannstrom

Well I guess for starters, outside of goaltending is something I take a bit of issue with as a statement. I am bullish on Ullmark vs. Korpisalo. There's 10 football fields between Korpisalo's ability and Ullmark's ability imo. Absolutely massive to go from arguably the worst starter in the league and a guy that was never suited for being a #1 to a guy that's never had a bad season in the league. Maybe I'm just excited because I railed against the Korpisalo signing so hard, he'd had 1 good season on the backs of 3 very poor ones prior to it, so he had no business getting that deal. I tried to accept it after the fact but in the back of my mind just tried to consider him a placeholder that hopefully would survive long enough to pass the torch. I'm ecstatic to go in to the season with a guy I can believe is capable of being "the guy" instead of someone I'm waiting to GTFO for a real solution.

Perron vs Tarasenko - Tarasenko brings more offense, but I think Perron can be the better fit. We'll see, but Tarasenko also wasn't here to end the season anyways. I'm hoping guys like Pinto/Norris take on more of the Tarasenko role, while perron can be more of a middle 6 guy elsewhere.

Amadio vs Joseph - 3rd line Goal scoring upgrade with an 18G per 82 over last 3 seasons vs. Joseph's 11. Also exceeded that pace in playoff run, which is a good sign. I like this one tbh, but I get why some do not.

Gregor vs Kelly - Wash. I liked Kelly, but he was a replaceable 4th liner looking for more money apparently. I do like that the guy they brought in is heralded for his speed.

Jensen vs Chychrun - Better fit and position imo. Chychrun stunk last year too, so if it's last year we're basing it on, we didn't really lose an effective player.

Kleven vs Brannstrom - 3rd pairing needs size imo, especially with the top 4 not being overly imposing. Better fit and much higher potential. Advanced stats or not, Brannstrom is a spare part imo, but mostly not worth his over the top qualifying offer and business had to be done.

And you said it yourself. I agree, I don't expect what I consider slight player personnel upgrades to turn the tide. It will be the massive goaltending upgrade, coaching (potentially, tbd), and the big guns improving/being healthy, or the ship is going nowhere. I'm confident that can happen and now that Andlauer/SS have had a full year, they will be fully supported on and off the ice. I'm also glad they didn't just mostly sit on their hands and run it back with mostly the same roster. A lot here seemed resigned to Korpisalo having to be the #1, but I railed hard that it had to be priority 1 this offseason to replace him, and I'm glad SS agreed.

 

[aragorn]

I expect an increase of 12 to 16 pts this yr, that's an increase of 6 to 7 wins. They had numerous games last yr where they got off to a shit start & blew the game near the end with some stupid mistakes. If they can eliminate the stupidity, the mistakes & increase their offence & special teams they can make a splash & threaten for a playoff spot. IMO a big improvement in special teams by itself should guaratee a vast improvement in wins & of course we need NHL goaltending something they haven't had in yrs.

 

[The Expert]

5th

 

[LiseL]

Well I guess for starters, outside of goaltending is something I take a bit of issue with as a statement. I am bullish on Ullmark vs. Korpisalo. There's 10 football fields between Korpisalo's ability and Ullmark's ability imo. Absolutely massive to go from arguably the worst starter in the league and a guy that was never suited for being a #1 to a guy that's never had a bad season in the league. Maybe I'm just excited because I railed against the Korpisalo signing so hard, he'd had 1 good season on the backs of 3 very poor ones prior to it, so he had no business getting that deal. I tried to accept it after the fact but in the back of my mind just tried to consider him a placeholder that hopefully would survive long enough to pass the torch. I'm ecstatic to go in to the season with a guy I can believe is capable of being "the guy" instead of someone I'm waiting to GTFO for a real solution.

Perron vs Tarasenko - Tarasenko brings more offense, but I think Perron can be the better fit. We'll see, but Tarasenko also wasn't here to end the season anyways. I'm hoping guys like Pinto/Norris take on more of the Tarasenko role, while perron can be more of a middle 6 guy elsewhere.

Amadio vs Joseph - 3rd line Goal scoring upgrade with an 18G per 82 over last 3 seasons vs. Joseph's 11. Also exceeded that pace in playoff run, which is a good sign. I like this one tbh, but I get why some do not.

Gregor vs Kelly - Wash. I liked Kelly, but he was a replaceable 4th liner looking for more money apparently. I do like that the guy they brought in is heralded for his speed.

Jensen vs Chychrun - Better fit and position imo. Chychrun stunk last year too, so if it's last year we're basing it on, we didn't really lose an effective player.

Kleven vs Brannstrom - 3rd pairing needs size imo, especially with the top 4 not being overly imposing. Better fit and much higher potential. Advanced stats or not, Brannstrom is a spare part imo, but mostly not worth his over the top qualifying offer and business had to be done.

And you said it yourself. I agree, I don't expect what I consider slight player personnel upgrades to turn the tide. It will be the massive goaltending upgrade, coaching (potentially, tbd), and the big guns improving/being healthy, or the ship is going nowhere. I'm confident that can happen and now that Andlauer/SS have had a full year, they will be fully supported on and off the ice. I'm also glad they didn't just mostly sit on their hands and run it back with mostly the same roster. A lot here seemed resigned to Korpisalo having to be the #1, but I railed hard that it had to be priority 1 this offseason to replace him, and I'm glad SS agreed.

A Leafs fan who provides good insight said that Gregor was fast but not a point producer, but would either pass the puck or put in a safe area, was good on the PK, so just as good as Joseph but much cheaper IMO.

 

[aragorn]

In a vacuum, most of these moves are fairly lateral, maybe even a slight downgrade, but it's more about fit.

Perron adds a grit that Tank doesn't have, he's great along the boards, and the team in general lacked what he brings last year. He may not score as much, but we have other guys for that.

Similarly, Jensen vs Chychrun, sure we're giving up some offense, but we fill a desperate need of Defensive RHD depth. After Zub is was either Hamonic or JBD last year, having 4 offensive minded LHD meant an imbalance on the PK as well.

Kleven for Brannstrom again swaps out something we had in abundance (puck moving LHD) for something we lacked (Physical defensive Dman)

Idk if they will work out as planned, but you can tell that Staios is building a team of players to fill roles, instead of a collection of good players regardless of the roles we need to fill.

Completely agree & another way that I would explain it is that we got better defensively which they needed to do while giving up a little bit of offence that could be made up if they can stay healthy from a few guys who were banged up last yr. If the special teams can improve this coming season & I suspect they will that in itself should help improve the team in the standings. Giroux, Pinto & Norris are three very good faceoff guys which means longer possession time & hopefully more offenssive chances & less defensive losses.

 

[Loach]

Completely agree & another way that I would explain it is that we got better defensively which they needed to do while giving up a little bit of offence that could be made up if they can stay healthy from a few guys who were banged up last yr. If the special teams can improve this coming season & I suspect they will that in itself should help improve the team in the standings. Giroux, Pinto & Norris are three very good faceoff guys which means longer possession time & hopefully more offenssive chances & less defensive losses.

If Jensen is just a normal defensive dman. Safe. Then Chabot might be able to be the Chabot we need. The guy he used to be. That would be huge. Less Chabot trying to cover for his partner and more just playing without worry. The guy drives me bonkers, i'll admit, but this could be huge for him and the team.

 

[aragorn]

If Jensen is just a normal defensive dman. Safe. Then Chabot might be able to be the Chabot we need. The guy he used to be. That would be huge. Less Chabot trying to cover for his partner and more just playing without worry. The guy drives me bonkers, i'll admit, but this could be huge for him and the team.

Agreed, Chabot being better offensively, Stutzle being healthy & having a better offensive year & Norris staying healthy & having a good offensive yr along with Ullmark giving us NHL hockey level goaltending would improve this team immensely.

 

[LiseL]

I expect an increase of 12 to 16 pts this yr, that's an increase of 6 to 7 wins. They had numerous games last yr where they got off to a shit start & blew the game near the end with some stupid mistakes. If they can eliminate the stupidity, the mistakes & increase their offence & special teams they can make a splash & threaten for a playoff spot. IMO a big improvement in special teams by itself should guaratee a vast improvement in wins & of course we need NHL goaltending something they haven't had in yrs.

They also had a lot of games where the 1st or 2nd shot of the game went in. Also many games where they were hemmed in their own zone for extended periods of time. Cleaning up those 2 things should result in more points. The one thing about last year is they did pretty well against Eastern conference rivals. The only team that got all of the points was Carolina. They managed to get a loser point with Florida.

Atlantic Division: games played-26, points-30
Metropolitan Division: games played-24, points-27
Western Conference: games played-32, points-20


The western road trips were killer, even against weaker opponents. Seeing improvement there will be a huge boost.

 

[Loach]

Agreed, Chabot being better offensively, Stutzle being healthy & having a better offensive year & Norris staying healthy & having a good offensive yr along with Ullmark giving us NHL hockey level goaltending would improve this team immensely.

It feels different this year. There are options available with this lineup. Players that fit in different spots, instead of only being able to be played in one role. Is flexability the right word? Even if a couple injuries happen, and I'm taking a page out of your book LoL, it's seems that some guys in the Ahl will be able to play 15 games or so without hurting the team.

 

[aragorn]

It feels different this year. There are options available with this lineup. Players that fit in different spots, instead of only being able to be played in one role. Is flexability the right word? Even if a couple injuries happen, and I'm taking a page out of your book LoL, it's seems that some guys in the Ahl will be able to play 15 games or so without hurting the team.

Flexibility & versatility.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

We improved quite a bit in the second half of last year (I know, I know, no pressure) and it was done on solid team play stemming from a more detail oriented coach. I think Green will bring more of the same. I think could that add up to several extra points.

I think it is totally reasonable to expect Sanderson, Stützle and Greig to improve on last season given their age and experience. Especially Stü given how he played the entire season banged up. Having a full season of Pinto, who I would say is still developing, would also be part of internal improvement. Having Norris healthy and playing up to his potential would be a huge bonus but my expectations are tempered on that front. Even still I think internal improvement could give us 6-10 points of improvement.

I feel like the players in/players out ledger is pretty much a wash. The only exception could be if Jensen develops chemistry with either Chabot or Sanderson. That could be a huge development, given that everyone seems to play well with Zub. Having two legit top 4 pairings would be so important. Given what we have on the bottom pairing it might prove essential. But I don't see much of a bump from the incoming skaters.

Ullmark is, without a doubt, a huge upgrade on Korpi5alo. Added bonus is the effect it could also have on Forsberg. Ullmark and Forsberg were a successful tandem in the SHL. Here's hoping that an extra year removed from double knee injuries and a comfort level with Ullmark leads to a small bounce back for Forsberg. All things being equal I see goaltending giving us 5-10 point bump.

I have doubts about the age of Perron, Giroux and Jensen. I also feel like we'll have a very suspect bottom D pairing to start the year. BUt I'm surprisingly bullish on the Sens chances this year. I see between 92-102 points for Ottawa this year.

 

[Micklebot]

A bit of an aside, but Brassard was on the radio talking about his thoughts on the Sens, I thought his comments on Perron were interesting, saying he's a little like Giroux (I think that wass wrt his compete level) and mentioned he has no filter.

 

[DrEasy]

A bit of an aside, but Brassard was on the radio talking about his thoughts on the Sens, I thought his comments on Perron were interesting, saying he's a little like Giroux (I think that wass wrt his compete level) and mentioned he has no filter.

Is Brassard done, or is he attempting a comeback?

 

[aragorn]

Coaching will help, but ultimately it is going to be the players who have to play a smarter game, take less risks especially at key points in the game & reduce the dumb mistakes they have been prone to make the last few seasons. And they need a goalie who can make key saves at the right time to keep them in games when they do make a mistake that will kill momentum & deflate a team.

Is Brassard done, or is he attempting a comeback?

Done like dinner, recently retired.

 

[Loach]

Coaching will help, but ultimately it is going to be the players who have to play a smarter game, take less risks especially at key points in the game & reduce the dumb mistakes they have been prone to make the last few seasons. And they need a goalie who can make key saves at the right time to keep them in games when they do make a mistake that will kill momentum & deflate a team.


Done like dinner, recently retired.

View attachment 903867

Coaching will fix all the things you said the players need to stop doing. If they can't, out they go. I think that's why whatshisnot had to be traded with a pick to StL. He's a dumb player. Lol

 

[aragorn]

Coaching will fix all the things you said the players need to stop doing. If they can't, out they go. I think that's why whatshisnot had to be traded with a pick to StL. He's a dumb player. Lol

All the talk about Joseph on this board & all they could get back for Joseph & a 3rd was future considerations. It's a head shaker.