Where did Yzerman go wrong with the rebuild?

[Hockeyville USA]

Dallas is a team that we could mirror to some extent but I think it's a bit of a "best case scenario" deal. We would need every single guy basically to hit their potential top end of their ceiling but there are a lot of stylistic analogs between the two of them.

We probably don't have Robertson in our mix at the moment (Raymond being the closet in terms of elite 1st line Winger, but not a natural goal scorer like Robertson or has his size) - though I would argue that our upside of our blue line with Mo, Ed, ASP, and Cossa is probably higher than theirs?

Heiskanen > Seider

Edvinsson > Harley

Lindell >>> anything the Red Wings currently have

Sandin Pellikka >>> Bichsel

Oettinger >> Cossa (for now)

 

[Twinger]

Dallas is a team that we could mirror to some extent but I think it's a bit of a "best case scenario" deal. We would need every single guy basically to hit their potential top end of their ceiling but there are a lot of stylistic analogs between the two of them.

We probably don't have Robertson in our mix at the moment (Raymond being the closet in terms of elite 1st line Winger, but not a natural goal scorer like Robertson or has his size) - though I would argue that our upside of our blue line with Mo, Ed, ASP, and Cossa is probably higher than theirs?

I'd agree with our blue line being our strong point going forward. If we want to go this way we need a better system/coach. And that's something else to add to the list

 

[raymond23]

Dallas and Winnipeg are good examples of what this could turn into

Our scouting overall in North America (pro and amateur) has me doubting

 

[Carmine Cirella]

It's been 6 drafts. With averaging over 2 second round picks per draft. With some truly astoundingly bad picks. Draper/Yzerman have zero clue on what to do outside the first round.

I can only recommend going to hockeydb.com and looking at draft lists by year. Even going back to 2021 you won't find many impact players (or even just established NHLers) outside like the top 10, not to mention anyone after the 2nd round. And again, that's for 2021. For 2022, 2023 and 2024 it's even rarer.

In terms of prospect development 4 or even 5 years is really not a long timeframe. Criticizing "It's been 6 drafts" seems to be missing this point.

 

[Frk It]

Dallas and Winnipeg are good examples of what this could turn into

Our scouting overall in North America (pro and amateur) has me doubting

The picks from the WHL have been pretty good. I think Wallin is based there?

Biggest issue is probably with whoever is scouting the USHL/USDP. Whoever signed off on drafting Cleveland, James, and Phelan.

We have barely picked any players from the OHL/QMJHL. Not sure why that is. There have been a bunch of good players from the OHL the last few years.

 

[heyfolks]

Soderblom is on his way back to Sweden very soon. WE all rooted for the guy, but he just doesn't have the skill for the NHL.

Elmer Söderblom

Third season as a Griffin … Fifth year pro … Sent on loan to Tingsryd (HockeyAllsvenskan) from Frolunda J20, 1/17/20 … Signed to a two-year rookie…

griffinshockey.com

Draft round 2 onward

Detroit Red Wings Draft History at hockeydb.com

2019 - AJo
20 20- Wallinder
2021 - Buium, Mazur
2022 - Buchlenikov, Lombardi
2023 - Augustine, CLEVELAND, Finnie (Also the moves to make this draft ND, ASP and Augustine was solid work.)
2024 - I can't comment on this bunch. Not really following them.

NHL Draft Pick Probabilities

Whenever an NHL draft is approaching, the excitement level and hype around the players go through the roof. It’s an exciting time for sure but it seems like most people don’t have realistic expectations when it comes to the draft. To help with that, I decided to

dobberprospects.com

I believe the numbers show the Wings are doing a solid job in the draft. I stand by my B+ and no, i don't give them an F- for 2nd onward. say again, it is not the draft, it is the UFAs. Outside of the net, not one of them is worth a damn but costing a fortune.

Tarasenko and Copp for Trouba. If they want D Copp and Gustaffson

https://athlonsports.com/nhl/new-york-rangers/rangers-jacob-trouba-chris-kreider-available-trade-following-loss-vs-oilers

 

[TheOctopusKid]

Soderblom is on his way back to Sweden very soon. WE all rooted for the guy, but he just doesn't have the skill for the NHL.

...Tarasenko and Copp for Trouba. If they want D Copp and Gustaffson...

Basically, the exact same sentiments. I don't actually think the 2nd Rd Drafting + has been all that bad. With any draft pick - you measure risk vs. reward, the deeper the round, the more uncertainly or the lower the ceiling/floor you need to accept for greater probability.

These are all dart throws to some extent.

FJDKLFJD!JKF@#!@# - but we need to dig up some steals!

I mean, I guess? The one think you cannot afford to do is miss on your 1st Rd picks - which the Wings have been absolutely stellar one. Conversely, we had more '2nd Rd+' steals but missed on basically every 1st Rd pick from like 2010 to 2019. We saw the outcome of that.

We ended up with Riley Sheahan over Kuznetsov, but neat? We scored on a short stint of Pulkkinen and Mrazek. The laundry list of Svechnikovs, Cholowskis, Manthas, Sheahans, Kindl, Smith, Rasmussen, Zadina, etc. THAT is kills you. Not that we aren't finding more and a way lower chance of probability: the next AA, or Nick Jensen, etc.

The Wings have been fine with their later round picks. Is it as many swings as some people want? Probably not but to say that we've failed when we have: Buchelnikov, Mazur, Wallinder, Johansson, Buium, Lombardi, Augustine - I don't see why we would be upset by this nor the other more depth oriented pieces as all of those guys have the potential upside celings, not just depth try-hards.

 

[datsyukfan]

Basically, the exact same sentiments. I don't actually think the 2nd Rd Drafting + has been all that bad. With any draft pick - you measure risk vs. reward, the deeper the round, the more uncertainly or the lower the ceiling/floor you need to accept for greater probability.

These are all dart throws to some extent.

FJDKLFJD!JKF@#!@# - but we need to dig up some steals!

I mean, I guess? The one think you cannot afford to do is miss on your 1st Rd picks - which the Wings have been absolutely stellar one. Conversely, we had more '2nd Rd+' steals but missed on basically every 1st Rd pick from like 2010 to 2019. We saw the outcome of that.

We ended up with Riley Sheahan over Kuznetsov, but neat? We scored on a short stint of Pulkkinen and Mrazek. The laundry list of Svechnikovs, Cholowskis, Manthas, Sheahans, Kindl, Smith, Rasmussen, Zadina, etc. THAT is kills you. Not that we aren't finding more and a way lower chance of probability: the next AA, or Nick Jensen, etc.

The Wings have been fine with their later round picks. Is it as many swings as some people want? Probably not but to say that we've failed when we have: Buchelnikov, Mazur, Wallinder, Johansson, Buium, Lombardi, Augustine - I don't see why we would be upset by this nor the other more depth oriented pieces as all of those guys have the potential upside celings, not just depth try-hards.

I think it’s probably because none of them (save Johansson) are in the NHL yet.

 

[Frk It]

I would have liked to see us pick more players like Buchelnikov and Lombardi... But that said, Buchelnikov and Lombardi are having pretty strong seasons in the KHL and AHL. I personally think NDN will make that type of jump next year as well.

 

[Our Lady Peace]

I think the most important part of the rebuild is that we are virtually maxing out on our 1st round picks. Seider, Ray, Ed all playing excellent, well-rounded hockey with lots of room to grow. Kasper aged 20 steps in as #2C and suddenly we may not have a hole there on the roster after all? Offense and defense both looking more than NHL ready and he's hanging with guys like DBC and Kane

Cossa showing his raw but huge development arc with a fast start to the year and may find a cup of coffee potentially as early as 2025

Danielson, ASP, MBN all showing immediate promising returns. Something that higher picks with legitimate top6F/top4D upside usually show

There's definitely been some head-scratcher picks from rounds 2-7 since 2019. We know who those are. There's also been some potentially awesome ones. Johansson should hit if they stop sitting him for bad veterans. Mazur, Lombardi knocking on the door. Buchelnikov showing growth in the weaker parts of his game and now looking really legit. I've called him Dadonov-esque if he hits his stride in the NHL. Too early but how can you not be impressed with Trey Augustine? IMO our most overlooked prospect

Wallinder is super raw one that I hope pans out, but exactly the type of player we should have swung on. Soderblom as well. You have to respect the attempt, but I think he just might be Sweden-bound sooner rather than later

These guys need time. Look how long Berggren has needed to finally be making that impact we wanted from him, now hopefully over 82 games. Do I wish I hindsight we draft some Will Cuylles or some Ryker Evans where they are pretty quick to make their own impact on the NHL team? Yes, but statistically hitting on these players is very low

 

[heyfolks]

Basically, the exact same sentiments. I don't actually think the 2nd Rd Drafting + has been all that bad. With any draft pick - you measure risk vs. reward, the deeper the round, the more uncertainly or the lower the ceiling/floor you need to accept for greater probability.

These are all dart throws to some extent.

FJDKLFJD!JKF@#!@# - but we need to dig up some steals!

I mean, I guess? The one think you cannot afford to do is miss on your 1st Rd picks - which the Wings have been absolutely stellar one. Conversely, we had more '2nd Rd+' steals but missed on basically every 1st Rd pick from like 2010 to 2019. We saw the outcome of that.

We ended up with Riley Sheahan over Kuznetsov, but neat? We scored on a short stint of Pulkkinen and Mrazek. The laundry list of Svechnikovs, Cholowskis, Manthas, Sheahans, Kindl, Smith, Rasmussen, Zadina, etc. THAT is kills you. Not that we aren't finding more and a way lower chance of probability: the next AA, or Nick Jensen, etc.

The Wings have been fine with their later round picks. Is it as many swings as some people want? Probably not but to say that we've failed when we have: Buchelnikov, Mazur, Wallinder, Johansson, Buium, Lombardi, Augustine - I don't see why we would be upset by this nor the other more depth oriented pieces as all of those guys have the potential upside celings, not just depth try-hards.

That is the BIGGER issue. Missing on 1st round picks year after year after year and missing out on VERY GOOD to GREAT talent. I don't think Yzerman has missed on any of his 1st rounders.