Where did Yzerman go wrong with the rebuild?

[Oddbob]

1) no they don't last longer than 6 years, unless you're talking about Detroit and Buffalo

2)who's job is it to roster better D and bottom 6? It's Yzerman's job...so while you are correct in saying the bottom 6 and D on paper is trash, but that's Yzerman's fault, is it not?

Where would Toronto be if they hadn't lucked their way into Marner and Matthews and ditto for Edmonton with not 1 but 2 of the top 5-8 players in the game? If you don't get a huge franchise player when you are at the bottom, that makes your stay at the bottom longer. Toronto and Edmonton got lucky and we did not.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

Rebuilds last longer than 6 yrs unless your fortunate enough to get a generational talent at 1 (which we never did) or get free agents like panarin and fox did with the rangers not copp's and comphers

If you do it right, they don't take six years just to get back into the playoffs.

Nobody is claiming that the Red Wings should be the Red Wings of old and be bonafide Cup contenders by now. But to be on the way toward a 6th straight non-playoff year under Yzerman's tutelage (in a League where literally half the teams get in) is a failure.

No other GM in a serious hockey market would have a leash this long.

 

[wingsfannn919191]

1) no they don't last longer than 6 years, unless you're talking about Detroit and Buffalo

2)who's job is it to roster better D and bottom 6? It's Yzerman's job...so while you are correct in saying the bottom 6 and D on paper is trash, but that's Yzerman's fault, is it not?

Doesnt take longer than 6 yrs?what you adding teams that make the playoffs once or twice in 6 yrs but get outed 1st round? That's a rebuild complete? Lmao

Takes time for prospects to develop and make it (if they dont flop) and we currently have four recent 1st rounders on the team 2 current rookies and still have pellikka cossa nygard danielson coming short term + other guys

again we weren't fortunate to land a top pick or free agents who wanted to come here. We had to have the leftovers like compher and copps out there. Didnt agree with the signings but it is what it is

I dont agree with everything yzermans done but he always said fans would have to be patient. He added debrincat a deal I wasn't a fan of and still dont see him here longterm but he fleeced ott.

He shouldn't have dealt walman until he knew 100% trouba would be here if that was the plan. Gustafsson sucks .... but were stuck with these fools for the time being , who's taking them?? Its just a waiting game for now

Like I said prob 5 guys who will still be here in 3 yrs if you don't think there isnt more short term pain ahead your deluding yourself. Cant be putting a bunch of kids next few years and expect us not to have growing pains.

As for guys on our team I'd eat salary to move a few guys but I doubt yzerman will atm . Is what it is

 

[wingsfannn919191]

If you do it right, they don't take six years just to get back into the playoffs.

Nobody is claiming that the Red Wings should be the Red Wings of old and be bonafide Cup contenders by now. But to be on the way toward a 6th straight non-playoff year under Yzerman's tutelage (in a League where literally half the teams get in) is a failure.

No other GM in a serious hockey market would have a leash this long.

In a serious hockey market? Like the habs?like the hawks prior to kane and toews?pens before sid and malkin,letang etc... want to see if pens make it more than 6 yrs or no? I'd bet $ it'll be 6+ unless they land mckenna , no free agents going there

Weren't the sharks one of the top teams for yrs? Pretty sure its 6+ yrs now or it'll easily surpass it if not ... we have to wait for our kids to develop. Were not signing 3-4 top free agents in one summer and yzerman wont overpay for someone in a trade

 

[Gniwder]

More Finnie, less steamers.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

Doesnt take longer than 6 yrs?what you adding teams that make the playoffs once or twice in 6 yrs but get outed 1st round? That's a rebuild complete? Lmao

The point being they should be back to being a solid playoff team by now. The "oh but look at the roster he inherited in 2019" argument stopped being valid a long time ago.

Players need the experience of seeing firsthand how different playoff hockey is from the regular season, even if it were a short series for a year or two straight.

Takes time for prospects to develop and make it (if they dont flop) and we currently have four recent 1st rounders on the team 2 current rookies and still have pellikka cossa nygard danielson coming short term + other guys

In six years on the job, Yzerman has 3 of his draft picks (only two up through last season) that are regular NHL players. That's a serious issue.

again we weren't fortunate to land a top pick or free agents who wanted to come here. We had to have the leftovers like compher and copps out there. Didnt agree with the signings but it is what it is

Why didn't he attempt to sign players like Brandon Montour or Sam Reinhart? How about Marchessault or Matt Roy? Because he didn't want to "give out term"?

Okay, don't get anyone good then, because that's the price of doing business. That's why we're still stuck looking at Jeff Petry.

If I'm Larkin, I'd be telling Steve that he had better start getting serious about surrounding him with legitimate talent and that I sure didn't sign an 8-year contract to only start to be a regular playoff team as that deal winds down.

I dont agree with everything yzermans done but he always said fans would have to be patient.

It's been six years under his tutelage and almost nine years since the team was last in the playoffs. We've been patient enough. Chris Ilitch needs to have a serious conversation with Steve and tell him he's on the hot seat if they're not a postseason team by the spring.

Until they start making the games free for fans because "you need to be patient and continue to have blind faith for a rudderless product", my patience and the patience of a large number of fans is running out.

Is what it is

What this is, is a directionless, uninspired team with no clear identity—a roster entirely constructed by Yzerman and led by an overmatched, uninspiring coach, whose poor decision-making and ineffective game management and strategy have been on display for nearly 2.5 years, as shown by the team's frequent slow starts and sloppy finishes.

In year six of a rebuild under a supposed wizard of a GM, that's unacceptable.

 

[lilidk]

We got Larkin,Seider, Edvinsson and Raymond. Cossa , Buchelnikov, Augustine, Finnie, ASP, MBN, Mazur, Danielson looking promising. Rebuild is still going and I hope we have nice draft in 2025. We only have first line so far and if we have prospects that could fill rest of the forwards Yzerman needs to get #3 defansman

 

[Ulysses31]

sure this season is on thin ice, and has botched some UFA signings but thankfully they are relatively short term contracts.

BUT imo big picture SY has done excellent drafting as far as we know. SY likes to slow cook prospects for better or worse so we really dont know what we got in a lot of prospects tho future looks really bright. (GR, ASP, Nygard, etc.)

eventually im almost sure DRW gonna be perennial PO team. In the meantime tho might b frusterating/painful for us fans.

 

[Dotter]

If you do it right, they don't take six years just to get back into the playoffs.

Nobody is claiming that the Red Wings should be the Red Wings of old and be bonafide Cup contenders by now. But to be on the way toward a 6th straight non-playoff year under Yzerman's tutelage (in a League where literally half the teams get in) is a failure.

No other GM in a serious hockey market would have a leash this long.

It took 24 years for the NY Rangers to win a single playoff game from 1997 to 2022.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

It took 24 years for the NY Rangers to win a single playoff game from 1997 to 2022.

You must mean someone else, because the Rangers went to Game 6 of Round 2 in 2007; they were swept the previous year by NJD (still valuable experience for young players like Henrik Lundqvist). And then went on multiple runs in the years after.

Not to mention James Dolan is widely regarded as a complete buffoon who doesn't prioritize winning.

 

[lidstromiscool]

We got Larkin,Seider, Edvinsson and Raymond. Cossa , Buchelnikov, Augustine, Finnie, ASP, MBN, Mazur, Danielson looking promising. Rebuild is still going and I hope we have nice draft in 2025. We only have first line so far and if we have prospects that could fill rest of the forwards Yzerman needs to get #3 defansman

That core + prospects isn't even top 20 in the NHL moving forward. Larkin isn't getting any younger. Seider/Raymond are already expensive.

 

[Pavels Dog]

1) no they don't last longer than 6 years, unless you're talking about Detroit and Buffalo

If you do it right, they don't take six years just to get back into the playoffs.

Yes, vast majority of rebuilds take more than 5-6 years. Only exceptions tend to be predicated on either A) Massive lottery luck, or B) being a prime FA destination.

Most franchises simply don't have the patience for a true rebuild though so that muddles the water a lot. We could "end" the rebuild today if we lose patience and start trading our futures for immediate help.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

Yes, vast majority of rebuilds take more than 5-6 years. Only exceptions tend to be predicated on either A) Massive lottery luck, or B) being a prime FA destination.

Most franchises simply don't have the patience for a true rebuild though so that muddles the water a lot. We could "end" the rebuild today if we lose patience and start trading our futures for immediate help.

Proper rebuilds don't take 5-6 years just to get back to the playoffs (in a league where literally half the teams make it in).

And again, we've been patient enough. It's been six years of Yzerman as GM and nearly nine years outside of the playoffs. This isn't the Minnesota Wild or Ottawa Senators or some other irrelevant NHL franchise. It's the Detroit Red Wings - that's 100% unacceptable.

We were told that Detroit would once again be a prime free-agent destination because of the new arena and Yzerman as GM. Where are the prime free agents?

 

[norrisnick]

Proper rebuilds don't take 5-6 years just to get back to the playoffs (in a league where literally half the teams make it in).

And again, we've been patient enough. It's been six years of Yzerman as GM and nearly nine years outside of the playoffs. This isn't the Minnesota Wild or Ottawa Senators or some other irrelevant NHL franchise. It's the Detroit Red Wings - that's 100% unacceptable.

We were told that Detroit would once again be a prime free-agent destination because of the new arena and Yzerman as GM. Where are the prime free agents?

By whom? The same people that stated Yzerman was a mythical wizard capable of conjuring up franchise players from the ether? I would suggest not listening to said voices as they don't appear to be grounded in reality...

 

[DoMakc]

By whom? The same people that stated Yzerman was a mythical wizard capable of conjuring up franchise players from the ether? I would suggest not listening to said voices as they don't appear to be grounded in reality...

Obviously by experts, who thought Copp is going to be 60-65 point player with Red Wings and long term solution for second C

 

[Pavels Dog]

Proper rebuilds don't take 5-6 years just to get back to the playoffs (in a league where literally half the teams make it in).

Again; yes they do.

Vast majority of teams don't actually go through "proper" rebuilds though. But I think Carolina is a decent parallell to us considering they also never quite got the benefit of major lottery luck or some superstar FA requesting to be traded there. 9 years outside the playoffs before they established themselves as a perennial playoff team.

And again, we've been patient enough. It's been six years of Yzerman as GM and nearly nine years outside of the playoffs. This isn't the Minnesota Wild or Ottawa Senators or some other irrelevant NHL franchise. It's the Detroit Red Wings - that's 100% unacceptable.

I agree playoffs should be the goal this season.

 

[Dotter]

You must mean someone else, because the Rangers went to Game 6 of Round 2 in 2007; they were swept the previous year by NJD (still valuable experience for young players like Henrik Lundqvist). And then went on multiple runs in the years after.

Not to mention James Dolan is widely regarded as a complete buffoon who doesn't prioritize winning.

Sorry, Flordia Panthers went 24 years before they won a single playoff game.

 

[lomekian]

Ultimately, where we are is a product of 3 things.

1) Taking to long to start the rebuild/ poor pre-rebuild decisions.

I was ok with us trying to keep the streak going, but once it became clear the cupboard was bare because so many of the late streak picks didn't pan out, we needed our 're-tooling' to also have an eye on the future. By the time we starting accept where we were, we had very few really salable assets and not much in the pipeline. Obviously Larkin pick was great, and Mantha, Bert, Nyquist, Tatar and AA all were good trade chips, but our D-core was moribund and with nothing on the way.

2) Lottery luck - not just talking continually moving down, because in a couple of those years we still made great picks, but also being at our worst when overall the drafts weren't great. Sure we whiffed on a couple of high picks, but they were also weaker draft years, so less top players to hit on. A little earlier we could have been on the McDavid etc drafts, a little later the Bedard etc, but we were worst and had negative lotterly luck in weaker draft years.

3) Flaming on FAs - partly poor choices, partly limited pool due to a) Weak team b) higher tax c) reluctance to hand out 6/7/8 year deals. Yzerman chose to avoid some better players in the aim of not being handcuffed by bad contracts when our top propsects come of age. Short term pain for long term gain in theory. Much will depend on how we do with FAs once the likes of Danielsson, ASP, Cossa are on the team and we look like a team with a short-medium term future.

Last year getting into the playoffs would have been nice, but wouldn't really have made a serious difference going forward. Ultimately, this rebuild rests on the guys who have already been drafted but haven't yet cemented themselves as NHL-ers

 

[lilidk]

That core + prospects isn't even top 20 in the NHL moving forward. Larkin isn't getting any younger. Seider/Raymond are already expensive.

That's why loosing games now not a bad thing, we will have chance to improve our future. That's why I am against to get rid of Lalonde. Also if we have small selloff , we could get extra good pics

 

[wingsfannn919191]

The point being they should be back to being a solid playoff team by now. The "oh but look at the roster he inherited in 2019" argument stopped being valid a long time ago.

Players need the experience of seeing firsthand how different playoff hockey is from the regular season, even if it were a short series for a year or two straight.



In six years on the job, Yzerman has 3 of his draft picks (only two up through last season) that are regular NHL players. That's a serious issue.



Why didn't he attempt to sign players like Brandon Montour or Sam Reinhart? How about Marchessault or Matt Roy? Because he didn't want to "give out term"?

Okay, don't get anyone good then, because that's the price of doing business. That's why we're still stuck looking at Jeff Petry.

If I'm Larkin, I'd be telling Steve that he had better start getting serious about surrounding him with legitimate talent and that I sure didn't sign an 8-year contract to only start to be a regular playoff team as that deal winds down.



It's been six years under his tutelage and almost nine years since the team was last in the playoffs. We've been patient enough. Chris Ilitch needs to have a serious conversation with Steve and tell him he's on the hot seat if they're not a postseason team by the spring.

Until they start making the games free for fans because "you need to be patient and continue to have blind faith for a rudderless product", my patience and the patience of a large number of fans is running out.



What this is, is a directionless, uninspired team with no clear identity—a roster entirely constructed by Yzerman and led by an overmatched, uninspiring coach, whose poor decision-making and ineffective game management and strategy have been on display for nearly 2.5 years, as shown by the team's frequent slow starts and sloppy finishes.

In year six of a rebuild under a supposed wizard of a GM, that's unacceptable.

We should be a playoff team by now ... cause you say so?? Seider and raymond are the only recent picks with decent nhl experience and kasper and edvinsson are starting off. Our picks arent ready ... I've said this countless times, this team will only be ready to win again when the kids are ready... sounds like you want yzerman to sign a bunch of ufa's to too much money and term and then regret it later

I agree players need nhl playoff experience . Like I said like 5-6 guys will still be here 3 yrs from now so that's not a concern atm. Only thing I'm worried about are our prospects being busts

Guess you answered my last question... you want us to sign guys too long and then regret it like you currently do with copp. Bet you were one of the ones jumping up and down when that deal happened huh?

I'm sure chris ilitch already had a conversation with yzerman. I'm sure he told him already that we need to get competitive to fill up seats which is why we have copp now and compher and got perron etc...

yzerman will only get fired if his recent picks all bust , all the work hes done has yet come to fruition. Your just an impatient kid who wants christmas to come early.

If we make the playoffs this year cool (we wont) if we get a top 10 pick or top 5 even better cause it'll only help us be better cup contenders in the long run and you'll be coming here with your fallacies saying you never doubted yzerman for a second

Be patient a year or 2. Kids are coming, pain is bound to be attached but the fun is about to start

 

[Nnowski]

Your evaluation of Chiarot is absurd.

By every single metric, advanced or simple stats, the team is significantly worse when he is on the ice

 

[Oddbob]

I will say that one thing that Yzerman gets no free pass for is the blueline he put together for this season. Hard to imagine an even competent GM thinking that what we had to start was going to be anything more than a disaster.

-Gus was and is a much lesser Ghost.
-Petry, Holl and Chiarot are all a year older and were varying degrees of suck before this season.
-He seems to have put all the eggs in that Ed and Aljo would step up which isn't fair to rookie blueliners. Ed has been great, but Aljo had never played before and there must have been a reason he only made it to the NHL team at 24 eventhough they sung his praises, he doesn't look like a regular NHL defender to me.
-Traded Maatta as well, which only makes us worse currently, as now other said defenders are guaranteed to play every night.

That is before any injuries/sickness happens. Ed misses one game and you could see the immediate crap fest that was the LA game, and now Mo has to play even more minutes with crappy partners who also have to play more.

 

[PullHard]

Can the users saying “proper rebuilds don’t take 6 years” list examples of teams who have completely bottomed out and returned to being a consistent playoff team (or better) within that time frame? Thanks

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Can the users saying “proper rebuilds don’t take 6 years” list examples of teams who have completely bottomed out and returned to being a consistent playoff team (or better) within that time frame? Thanks

Especially ones that didn't get a generational player with the 1st overall pick?

 

[Snuggs]

Can the users saying “proper rebuilds don’t take 6 years” list examples of teams who have completely bottomed out and returned to being a consistent playoff team (or better) within that time frame? Thanks

Minnesota wild/Dalls Stars. (Neither really pushed over for Stanley cups.) Neither have been bad for 6 plus years, consistently make playoffs. Thats off the top of my head. San Jose sharks until this recent run through. Infact I'd say outside of this recent management, San Jose would be the poster child organization for that.

If you feel like YOU know that answer you could tell us. I'm not sure it's none, maybe the majority of teams take 6 or more years I actually don't know.