Where did Yzerman go wrong with the rebuild?

[13to40]

Red Wings trade F Jonatan Berggren, LHD Eric Gustavsson, 2025 1st round and a 2026 5th round pick.

Penguins trade LHD Marcus Pettersson and their 2025 2nd round pick.



Red Wings trade F Michael Rasmussen, RHD Justin Holl, LHD William Wallinder and a 2025 3rd round pick.

Flyers trade RHD Rasmus Ristolainen.


Alex DeBrincat – (C) Dylan Larkin – Patrick Kane
(A) Andrew Copp – J.T. Compher – Lucas Raymond
Amadeus Lombardi – Marco Kasper – Vladimir Tarasenko
Christian Fischer – Joe Veleno – Carter Mazur

* Tyler Motte
* Austin Watson

Simon Edvinsson – Mortiz Seider
Marcus Pettersson – Rasmus Ristolainen
(A) Ben Chiarot – Albert Johansson
* Jeff Petry

Cam Talbot
Alex Lyon



Pettersson is a UFA at the end of the year, so you'll have a half season to see if he fits a try to resign.

Value for Pettersson isn’t bad and it’s probably around what they will get at the deadline for him, but I don’t think he’s the answer for this team.

Ristolainen has always been a hot pile of garbage. Not at all a good defenceman. He sucked in Buffalo. He sucked in Philly, he will most certainly suck in Detroit too.

I think this team needs a new voice before Stevie starts trading 1st round picks. Unless the 1st rounder is for another young player with term, or a sign in trade up for a player up front, I don’t think It’s the right way to spend the current assets.

That 1st round pick should be used next year (when I think the team will be closer to competing in the playoffs)

 

[Oddbob]

I don't think we should be giving up good futures for Marcus Pettersson. He is an ok guy, but he will also be getting too much as he will be UFA in a few months from now.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I think it's easier to win a championship with a patchwork defense vs a patchwork offense.

Honestly I would pretty strongly disagree. If there was significant truth to that statement we would without a doubt see Toronto and Edmonton consistently do better.

When Vegas won the cup their top 4 in icetime were Pietrangelo, Theodore, Martinez and McNabb. No forward above 19 minutes. Chandler Stephenson 3rd highest TOI among their forwards. If that isn't patchwork forwards I don't know.
I also feel like the reason Boston, Tampa etc. manage to keep rolling is because they have those pillars on the blueline. They manage to replace Bergeron with Zacha and become BETTER, could they do the same if they lost McAvoy? Doubtful imo.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Red Wings trade F Jonatan Berggren, LHD Eric Gustavsson, 2025 1st round and a 2026 5th round pick.

Penguins trade LHD Marcus Pettersson and their 2025 2nd round pick.



Red Wings trade F Michael Rasmussen, RHD Justin Holl, LHD William Wallinder and a 2025 3rd round pick.

Flyers trade RHD Rasmus Ristolainen.


Alex DeBrincat – (C) Dylan Larkin – Patrick Kane
(A) Andrew Copp – J.T. Compher – Lucas Raymond
Amadeus Lombardi – Marco Kasper – Vladimir Tarasenko
Christian Fischer – Joe Veleno – Carter Mazur

* Tyler Motte
* Austin Watson

Simon Edvinsson – Mortiz Seider
Marcus Pettersson – Rasmus Ristolainen
(A) Ben Chiarot – Albert Johansson
* Jeff Petry

Cam Talbot
Alex Lyon



Pettersson is a UFA at the end of the year, so you'll have a half season to see if he fits a try to resign.

I hate this so much I don’t even have words for it but I’ll try anyway

Risrolainen is legitimately worse than holl. That 2nd package is so bad , so so so bad.

Pettersson is not worth a 1st+. He’s a slightly rich mans Maatta. All you’ve done here is give up some depth for completely lateral moves and lost future while doing it.

 

[SirloinUB]

Ya Im not seeing much appeal in dudes like Pettersson or Ristolainen replacing Chairot, holl, and Petry.

Those are going to be marginal upgrades at a hefty price. pass.

 

[Nnowski]

Honestly I would pretty strongly disagree. If there was significant truth to that statement we would without a doubt see Toronto and Edmonton consistently do better.

When Vegas won the cup their top 4 in icetime were Pietrangelo, Theodore, Martinez and McNabb. No forward above 19 minutes. Chandler Stephenson 3rd highest TOI among their forwards. If that isn't patchwork forwards I don't know.
I also feel like the reason Boston, Tampa etc. manage to keep rolling is because they have those pillars on the blueline. They manage to replace Bergeron with Zacha and become BETTER, could they do the same if they lost McAvoy? Doubtful imo.

There have been 2 teams in the last 15 years to win the cup without a superstar forward in the Blues and Knights. Even though you could argue RoR and Eichel were almost that. You of course need good defense if you want to go anywhere consistently, but a solid defense is easier to put together than a forward group.

 

[Frk It]

There have been 2 teams in the last 15 years to win the cup without a superstar forward in the Blues and Knights. Even though you could argue RoR and Eichel were almost that. You of course need good defense if you want to go anywhere consistently, but a solid defense is easier to put together than a forward group.

The type of forward group you are talking about that would hypothetically carry a patchwork blue line is very very very hard to attain.

Like sure you can win with Crosby/Malkin and Letang and a bunch of guys on defense.

Good luck getting a Crosby or Malkin.

I don't see any value in comparing what we are building with teams who won 10 or 15 years ago. They had a different lottery system to work with. Not apples to apples.

 

[RedHawkDown]

The type of forward group you are talking about that would hypothetically carry a patchwork blue line is very very very hard to attain.

Like sure you can win with Crosby/Malkin and Letang and a bunch of guys on defense.

Good luck getting a Crosby or Malkin.

I don't see any value in comparing what we are building with teams who won 10 or 15 years ago. They had a different lottery system to work with. Not apples to apples.

The point he’s making is that even if it’s hard to obtain, it’s what works almost all of the time. Yes, Barkov/MacKinnon/Rantanen/Tkachuk/Kucherov/Ovechkin/Crosby/Kane are all very hard to obtain. But it also is extremely hard to win. That’s the point. Nobody is arguing that it’s easy. It’s just that almost all the teams that win have a forward of that caliber. Kopitar is also arguably at the same level given his defensive prowess, especially in the playoffs. By signing C+/B+ vets to fill in the roster, the wings prevented themselves from being able to draft someone like Michkov/Bedard/Cooley/Demidov/etc , that could become th at type of player. Now we gotta hope that the much less historically successful Boston/St Louis/VGK(maybe) model is what we can achieve.

People are arguing that the wings did not maximize their chances to achieve a similar outcome. Not that tanking would have guaranteed it. Just that it would have raised the chances of an already extremely unlikely outcome over the roster we are building instead.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Boston won a long time ago

StL was a one and done Cinderella story

Vegas yes, they also recruited and traded for every "available" star utilizing the appeal of playing in Las Vegas...to use them as an example you're gonna need to copy them using same factors

 

[Frk It]

The point he’s making is that even if it’s hard to obtain, it’s what works almost all of the time. Yes, Barkov/MacKinnon/Rantanen/Tkachuk/Kucherov/Ovechkin/Crosby/Kane are all very hard to obtain. But it also is extremely hard to win. That’s the point. Nobody is arguing that it’s easy. It’s just that almost all the teams that win have a forward of that caliber. Kopitar is also arguably at the same level given his defensive prowess, especially in the playoffs. By signing C+/B+ vets to fill in the roster, the wings prevented themselves from being able to draft someone like Michkov/Bedard/Cooley/Demidov/etc , that could become th at type of player. Now we gotta hope that the much less historically successful Boston/St Louis/VGK(maybe) model is what we can achieve.

People are arguing that the wings did not maximize their chances to achieve a similar outcome. Not that tanking would have guaranteed it. Just that it would have raised the chances of an already extremely unlikely outcome over the roster we are building instead.

We already drafted a Cooley/Demidov, his name is Lucas Raymond.

We haven’t maximized our chances? Count up how many top 10 picks and how many top 100 picks we have over the last 10 years.

You guys would only want another season of tanking if you got the outcome we wanted. If we were last and got pick 3 and didn’t pick someone you wanted, you’d be just as pissed as if we didn’t tank.

 

[ricky0034]

We already drafted a Cooley/Demidov, his name is Lucas Raymond.

We haven’t maximized our chances? Count up how many top 10 picks and how many top 100 picks we have over the last 10 years.

You guys would only want another season of tanking if you got the outcome we wanted. If we were last and got pick 3 and didn’t pick someone you wanted, you’d be just as pissed as if we didn’t tank.

one thing i've never seen mentioned even once in all the complaining about the Wings lottery results compared to other teams is that the Wings have only actually finished in the bottom 3 a grand total of one time

 

[Frk It]

one thing i've never seen mentioned even once in all the complaining about the Wings lottery results compared to other teams is that the Wings have only actually finished in the bottom 3 a grand total of one time

Why would you go out of your way to be bottom 3 with a system designed to deincentivize tanking?

You think that’s a coincidence?

It would only take me being last one time and getting pick 4 to say f*** that… which is exactly what happened to us, by the way.

 

[ricky0034]

Why would you go out of your way to be bottom 3 with a system designed to deincentivize tanking?

You think that’s a coincidence?

i'm saying that I think people overstate the extent to which the Wings should have actual top picks given their actual results

exactly how worth it or not it is to shoot for specific spots is a personal value judgment i'm not terribly interested in getting into for the 100th time but every spot you finish lower does drop your average draft pick by .7 or so, that's just the basic math behind it

 

[Nnowski]

The type of forward group you are talking about that would hypothetically carry a patchwork blue line is very very very hard to attain.

Like sure you can win with Crosby/Malkin and Letang and a bunch of guys on defense.

Good luck getting a Crosby or Malkin.

I don't see any value in comparing what we are building with teams who won 10 or 15 years ago. They had a different lottery system to work with. Not apples to apples.

You can look at the last 4 winners. The "worst" team was Vegas with an elite #1 C, a Selke calibre winger and a top 3 defense in the league. The other 3 had 2-3 forwards better than anyone on the Red Wings currently, or best case scenario in the future as well.

 

[Frk It]

You can look at the last 4 winners. The "worst" team was Vegas with an elite #1 C, a Selke calibre winger and a top 3 defense in the league. The other 3 had 2-3 forwards better than anyone on the Red Wings currently, or best case scenario in the future as well.

Yeah and my biggest complaint with Yzerman in looking at that is where are the impact trades?

Vegas acquired Stone via trade, Florida acquired Tkachuk via trade, etc etc

We have compiled a mountain of draft picks and prospects… I have to believe we could have weaponized those assets and made a more impactful trade than we have seen so far.

I don’t really understand it.

 

[Frk It]

i'm saying that I think people overstate the extent to which the Wings should have actual top picks given their actual results

exactly how worth it or not it is to shoot for specific spots is a personal value judgment i'm not terribly interested in getting into for the 100th time but every spot you finish lower does drop your average draft pick by .7 or so, that's just the basic math behind it

Yeah for me the cost/value is just not there.

For what it’s worth I made a thread saying this lottery system is shit before it screwed us over. It was pretty easy to see the league only cared about the negative PR of tanking and not actually helping the teams at the bottom.

 

[SirKillalot]

The method that Detroit is trying is extremely weird, and they currently project to be a mushy middle team for the foreseeable future. It's very difficult to see a scenario where they are contenders, unless one of their random forward draft picks turns into a superstar.

They are not even done with the rebuild and they are at this point already now. I'm not saying they will be a powerhouse, cause that is a bit too high of a dream and challenge.

But they can become let's say a better than Boston or similar to Tampa team.
Yes they need one or two of their young draft picks to turn into superstars or semi-superstars and they need to sign someone solid and trade for someone solid at some point.

But those at 18-19-20 years old now have potential to be really solid NHL'ers at age 23-24-25. Hopefully some could be a year or two before that.

 

[Nnowski]

They are not even done with the rebuild and they are at this point already now. I'm not saying they will be a powerhouse, cause that is a bit too high of a dream and challenge.

But they can become let's say a better than Boston or similar to Tampa team.
Yes they need one or two of their young draft picks to turn into superstars or semi-superstars and they need to sign someone solid and trade for someone solid at some point.

But those at 18-19-20 years old now have potential to be really solid NHL'ers at age 23-24-25. Hopefully some could be a year or two before that.

If they get a top 3 goalie and 3 all star forwards then yes they can be like Tampa, but that's not going to happen. They are closer to a bottom 5 team than they are a top 5 and not it's particularly close. They've drafted one top 6 forward in 6 years.

 

[Pavels Dog]

There have been 2 teams in the last 15 years to win the cup without a superstar forward in the Blues and Knights. Even though you could argue RoR and Eichel were almost that. You of course need good defense if you want to go anywhere consistently, but a solid defense is easier to put together than a forward group.

If you have to argue Ryan O'Reilly is "almost" a superstar to make your argument work, you've lost.

No one's saying you can win the cup without having players peaking at the right time. But we know both Larkin and Raymond can play like superstars for stretches. If they both peak for a playoff run will you call them superstar forwards? No, you won't. What's to say Danielson can't reach O'Reilly levels 5+ years from now? That Raymond can't develop into a Selke-caliber winger? That Cossa, Edvinsson and Seider can't be near the top of the league at their respective positions?

It's just pessimism.

 

[Nnowski]

If you have to argue Ryan O'Reilly is "almost" a superstar to make your argument work, you've lost.

No one's saying you can win the cup without having players peaking at the right time. But we know both Larkin and Raymond can play like superstars for stretches. If they both peak for a playoff run will you call them superstar forwards? No, you won't. What's to say Danielson can't reach O'Reilly levels 5+ years from now? That Raymond can't develop into a Selke-caliber winger? That Cossa, Edvinsson and Seider can't be near the top of the league at their respective positions?

It's just pessimism.

I think Edvinsson and Seider can be elite dmen, they are almost there already. But the forward core is so bad right now. They have 1 good top 6 centre, 2 good top 6 wingers and no elite talent on the roster or in the pipeline. I don't think Danielson can be RoR because in his D+2 year he was already in the NHL putting up the same #s as Danielson except he's in the AHL. None of the forward prospects have shown anything to be optimistic about.

 

[Snuggs]

Wings will peak at the right time and be like that USA team who beat the Russians...

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

One of the considerations when it comes to "he should've tanked longer" is that Larkin's contract was up. So Yzerman either faces the task of convincing Larkin that the team will be competing for a Cup sometime before Dylan retires, or trading away a popular player and captain.

Not saying either of those are impossible, but it's definitely a consideration on top of the obvious pressure from ownership that isn't going to want the team to keep sucking and having empty seats at games.

 

[Winger98]

The point he’s making is that even if it’s hard to obtain, it’s what works almost all of the time. Yes, Barkov/MacKinnon/Rantanen/Tkachuk/Kucherov/Ovechkin/Crosby/Kane are all very hard to obtain. But it also is extremely hard to win. That’s the point. Nobody is arguing that it’s easy. It’s just that almost all the teams that win have a forward of that caliber. Kopitar is also arguably at the same level given his defensive prowess, especially in the playoffs. By signing C+/B+ vets to fill in the roster, the wings prevented themselves from being able to draft someone like Michkov/Bedard/Cooley/Demidov/etc , that could become th at type of player. Now we gotta hope that the much less historically successful Boston/St Louis/VGK(maybe) model is what we can achieve.

People are arguing that the wings did not maximize their chances to achieve a similar outcome. Not that tanking would have guaranteed it. Just that it would have raised the chances of an already extremely unlikely outcome over the roster we are building instead.

If the goal was to continue to be the worst team in the league we would have needed to deal Larkin and keep Seider/Raymond buried. Copp, Chiarot, Sprong...they aren't the ones lifting us out of the absolute cellar.

As it is, despite not drafting in the top3 in any of those years, I think we stand a good chance of pulling a top3 player out of several of those drafts. At some point, you build with what you got and you have to try to make it work.

 

[SirKillalot]

One of the considerations when it comes to "he should've tanked longer" is that Larkin's contract was up. So Yzerman either faces the task of convincing Larkin that the team will be competing for a Cup sometime before Dylan retires, or trading away a popular player and captain.

Not saying either of those are impossible, but it's definitely a consideration on top of the obvious pressure from ownership that isn't going to want the team to keep sucking and having empty seats at games.

Yeah I think this was also a big reason. why he in my opinion ended the try for 1st overall a season too early. Cause either you start building or you have to trade Larkin, and then you looking for another top 6 center.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Yeah I think this was also a big reason. why he in my opinion ended the try for 1st overall a season too early. Cause either you start building or you have to trade Larkin, and they you looking for another top 6 center.

Exactly. and from a business perspective the team has no identity or face to put on the marketing materials.

I truly think part of the Abdelkader contract was just to have a name people knew to carry the Wings through years where there was going to be a lot of turnover.