Where did Yzerman go wrong with the rebuild?

[Retire91]

Wasn't our best player by a landslide drafted during those 7 years?

Yes the same stretch where tying the playoff appearance record was prioritized at the sacrifice of, well the seasons you are experiencing now.

 

[Go Wings]

Hronek would have never been a 1st pair guy in Detroit because thats Seider's spot. Real reason is that he got the right price. Every GM will have the right price and two 1st round picks(+ B-prospect or 2) could be that price.

Drai won't be available and i doubt Zegras will either, Buffalo wouldn't trade with divisional rival. I'd take a look at Philly, they outta tank hard to pick Hagens/Martone to go with Michkov and they could have a decent shot at McKenna too. So Travis Konecky, easily worth of 2 1st's+Berggren+prospect package.

And i would keep a close eye on Winnipeg, American players tend to get homesick eventually in Canada. Thats right Kyle Connor...
View attachment 928417
... i see you

Agreed Kyle Connor is dieing to be on the Wings and leave the 14-1 Jets.

 

[Snuggs]

Ever planted an apple tree?

I have an orchard... I'm actually a farmer.

The picture hilarious.

Yeah I'm the "dude lmao

McKenna is the next mcdavid/Crosby and those guys turned out to be okay but whatever

Lmao, c'mon man, you don't even know if Wings will win the lottery. Why would you pin all hopes on that. I mean if you "happen" to fall into that spot, because you suck through injury or whatever I get it but to actively suck for the chance. Idk I'm not into that.

 

[Snuggs]

Yes the same stretch where tying the playoff appearance record was prioritized at the sacrifice of, well the seasons you are experiencing now.

Hmmm bad choices were made on who to bring in for sure.

Winning hockey is better than watching rebuild hockey. Just my opinion. I wish the playoff stretch was still alive. It's not really the playoff appearances fault they sucked, it was the guy InCharge signing and trading for bad players in the name of the playoff appearances/cup chances.

I'll never ever be mad at someone in charge for trying to actually win. Holland, though, made huge mistakes. You can make some bad moves, but you can't let it have a snowball effect, and it certainly did here with Holland.

 

[Snuggs]

Weird comment. Despite having a rough schedule and the flu, Wings are keeping up with Boston and Lighting, and have surpassed our Atlantic competitors; Sens, Sabres, Canadians... all the while playing less games.

I'm guessing you're a glass half empty kinda person?

This didn't age well in 24hrs. literally.


The most concerning thing... Is literally Red Wings are 2nd or outright last in goals this year. They're getting outscored by the rest of the league significantly. They also don't look talented enough to bump those numbers up and there isn't any young player we can put our hats on to come up and provide goals.

One injury to a top line guy, let alone Larkin, and they're right back to 2020/2019 and idk why people think it's alright or we're keeping pace. The winning isn't sustainable without more goals.

If you're competition is against, Montreal, Buffalo, Ottawa it's prolyl for the 1st overall pick. Maybe they start lighting the lamp up, but nothing suggests that through the play I've been watching.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Last year we were 8th in 5on5 PDO. This year we are 18th, right middle of the pack. Unless we start getting luckier, we aren’t getting better.

 

[cvaicunas]

Wings are trending up, not down. Dreaming of winning the draft lottery is waste of time.

Reality hasn't stopped me from dreaming since the Dahlin draft

 

[wingsfannn919191]

I have an orchard... I'm actually a farmer.

The picture hilarious.


Lmao, c'mon man, you don't even know if Wings will win the lottery. Why would you pin all hopes on that. I mean if you "happen" to fall into that spot, because you suck through injury or whatever I get it but to actively suck for the chance. Idk I'm not into that.

I dont know if we'll win the lottery and doesnt have to be him specifically but we need a top line point production star coming which we dont

We're not actively sucking. We just suck lol I didn't think we'd make the playoffs with this awful roster but its alot worse than I thought. Unless yzerman makes a big move this will be a long season

 

[SantosHalper]

Hronek wouldn't have been ahead of seider here and would never got the money he wanted which is why he was dealt.

No way Yzerman would have paid as much as the Nucks did, so he would have signed a shorter and cheaper deal. But fact is that Yzerman wasn't shopping Hronek around, Vancouver called and it was "no" first and then Yzerman called back later on and got the right price. Surely Hronek's next contract was a factor but if he wasn't going get what he wanted, Hronek might be still playing for the Wings and we wouldn't have ASP in the system.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1727786278786388400

Konecky?? Lmao hes not gonna take us to the promise land. Not even close.

Didnt Kyle o connor just sign??? I was thinking someone like Brad lambert from there if they were looking for pieces later on... sidenote that Colby kid they took looks like a bust lmao glad we stayed far away from him

Jeez, you say Konecky wouldn't improve the team? Hockey is a team sport, not a one man show. Player like Konecky and our fully develop prospects would take us to the promise land. Player like Konecky is a perfect target, turns 28 in March, signed through his prime years, near PPG player for last 5 seasons. Down side is NMC but if Philly enters in full rebuild and decides to build around Michkov, it's a long process like we know, so he just might waive it.

Connor has not signed. Lambert will be bust too, i've seen that kid play since he was 15-16. He's got no IQ what so ever. Bust is strong word but he will not meet the expectations, NHL career in bottom-6 role is possible. I wouldn't trade for him.

Agreed Kyle Connor is dieing to be on the Wings and leave the 14-1 Jets.

Not now but in 2026 there is a different story. It might not be the Wings but Wings surely are a strong candidate. Michigan native and Wings have near 40 million in cap space for 2026-27, Larkin, Ray, Seider and Cat signed. Ed is basically only one who gets signed with a hefty contract, Cossa, Mazur and Wallinder will get cheap bridge-deal. Money to burn!

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Yes the same stretch where tying the playoff appearance record was prioritized at the sacrifice of, well the seasons you are experiencing now.

Except we also managed to draft our best player...that says something, no? Well unless it dosent fit that narrative of course...

 

[Twinger]

Last time he had a ton of cap we got Chiarot/Copp/Perron/Kubalik/Maata. (20.375 million dollars annually). Not much recently says he's spend it wisely to bring in a UFA at all.

Yzermans done a pretty good job in trades/draft. Really rough in UFA as a Red Wing GM.

No you see those guys were stop gaps until the kids are ready. So when there gone the kids will replace them on ELC and then we can wisely spend the tons of cap or something like that.

This time we're getting rid of our other stop gap guys and going to bring in solid players

 

[Twinger]

Actually I have. Mom bought a dwarf Asian apple tree that was already 5 ft tall, so it grew fruit the next year. Money shortens development time, it's like buying a free agent 2C. A good one, not some garbage from Costco like Copp, lol.

(Note: This was 4 decades ago, mom's in a retirement home now.)

Whoa whoa whoa let's not sully Costco's name in this fiasco. Copp is like below that.

2nd Line center has been a thorn in our sides. Not a big Copp at all and then Compher comes in and makes Copp expandable but now we're stuck with both of them.

For a rebuilding team we never seemed to have cap space and the ability to weponize that.

This year if we finish just out of the playoffs we'll stay the course. Maybe Kasper will make a jump next year, ASP in grand rapids, stat watching on Nate doesn't look great but who knows. He'll be with the team in 3 years.

I'm a big Cossa fan but that's also another 3 years away. Right now we rely on a 37 year old and lyon bailing us out.

 

[GarlicbreadTB]

As someone who still think we'll come out alright eventually. My biggest issue with Yzerman's tenure so far is the long term contracts at Free Agency. The shorter contracts I'm not that bothered with they're just stop gaps until the young players are ready. Now I guess thats also a minor complain that they wait too long to bring up certain players too.

 

[wingsfannn919191]

No way Yzerman would have paid as much as the Nucks did, so he would have signed a shorter and cheaper deal. But fact is that Yzerman wasn't shopping Hronek around, Vancouver called and it was "no" first and then Yzerman called back later on and got the right price. Surely Hronek's next contract was a factor but if he wasn't going get what he wanted, Hronek might be still playing for the Wings and we wouldn't have ASP in the system.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1727786278786388400

Jeez, you say Konecky wouldn't improve the team? Hockey is a team sport, not a one man show. Player like Konecky and our fully develop prospects would take us to the promise land. Player like Konecky is a perfect target, turns 28 in March, signed through his prime years, near PPG player for last 5 seasons. Down side is NMC but if Philly enters in full rebuild and decides to build around Michkov, it's a long process like we know, so he just might waive it.

Connor has not signed. Lambert will be bust too, i've seen that kid play since he was 15-16. He's got no IQ what so ever. Bust is strong word but he will not meet the expectations, NHL career in bottom-6 role is possible. I wouldn't trade for him.

Not now but in 2026 there is a different story. It might not be the Wings but Wings surely are a strong candidate. Michigan native and Wings have near 40 million in cap space for 2026-27, Larkin, Ray, Seider and Cat signed. Ed is basically only one who gets signed with a hefty contract, Cossa, Mazur and Wallinder will get cheap bridge-deal. Money to burn!

.
Yzerman was never going to wall hronek to free agency and he was never giving him that money. The writing was on the wall way before he was moved

Konecky is not a top line star. He's signed till 2033 making close to 9 mill. No way I'd give away 2 top 15 picks ,that contract will end horribly.

Connor would be nice. No clue if he's come or if yzerman would sign him longterm since he'll turn 30 a few months into his contract. Wilm yzerman give him what?10?11?12 mill? I'd be interested in him ... id trade debrincat and sign connor in a second(no way yzerman keeps both longterm)

You watched lambert since 15? your in Finland ? I mentioned him as an example of going for young players from other teams while they havent turned into anything yet. Nobody's giving us a 23-25 year old star player... whether it be cozens,zegras or young guys like Lambert
or 1st rounders from last few yrs etc... I was saying someone like that should be a target

Lafreniere was considered a bust a year ago, not anymore. Anyways yzerman will be moving some deadweight if we're still playing like this 10-20 games from now

 

[Go Wings]

No way Yzerman would have paid as much as the Nucks did, so he would have signed a shorter and cheaper deal. But fact is that Yzerman wasn't shopping Hronek around, Vancouver called and it was "no" first and then Yzerman called back later on and got the right price. Surely Hronek's next contract was a factor but if he wasn't going get what he wanted, Hronek might be still playing for the Wings and we wouldn't have ASP in the system.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1727786278786388400

Jeez, you say Konecky wouldn't improve the team? Hockey is a team sport, not a one man show. Player like Konecky and our fully develop prospects would take us to the promise land. Player like Konecky is a perfect target, turns 28 in March, signed through his prime years, near PPG player for last 5 seasons. Down side is NMC but if Philly enters in full rebuild and decides to build around Michkov, it's a long process like we know, so he just might waive it.

Connor has not signed. Lambert will be bust too, i've seen that kid play since he was 15-16. He's got no IQ what so ever. Bust is strong word but he will not meet the expectations, NHL career in bottom-6 role is possible. I wouldn't trade for him.

Not now but in 2026 there is a different story. It might not be the Wings but Wings surely are a strong candidate. Michigan native and Wings have near 40 million in cap space for 2026-27, Larkin, Ray, Seider and Cat signed. Ed is basically only one who gets signed with a hefty contract, Cossa, Mazur and Wallinder will get cheap bridge-deal. Money to burn!

I doubt Winnipeg is suddenly going to fall off a cliff in 2 years when most of their good players are either entering or are already in their primes.

 

[raymond23]

The 2024 off-season is where it went wrong for the time being, lost a lot of useful skaters that were a large part to last years identity

We have a top prospect pool and great roster flexibility moving forward, those are very good things. But they require patience which is running thin for most of us and understandably so

 

[SantosHalper]

Konecky is not a top line star. He's signed till 2033 making close to 9 mill. No way I'd give away 2 top 15 picks ,that contract will end horribly.

875k more than Cat, cap is going up. I see no issues and i believe he would be PPG in Detroit and would help Wings win hockey games.

You watched lambert since 15? your in Finland ? I mentioned him as an example of going for young players from other teams while they havent turned into anything yet. Nobody's giving us a 23-25 year old star player... whether it be cozens,zegras or young guys like Lambert
or 1st rounders from last few yrs etc... I was saying someone like that should be a target

Guilty.

No one giving that age group players and i've been saying that it's Larkin's age group 27-30 what should be target players.

Lafreniere is one of those guys who would have benefit if he would have been allowed to play in AHL. He was too good to play in juniors but clearly wasn't ready for NHL. Luckily for Rangers he's development wasn't screwd up. But Lambert problem is between ears, you can't fix brains.

I doubt Winnipeg is suddenly going to fall off a cliff in 2 years when most of their good players are either entering or are already in their primes.

Probably not but about a year ago i checked all the American players whom has played +400 games in NHL and from all of those players Gerry O'Flaherty and Craig Conroy were the only ones who spent majority of their careers in Canada. O'Flaherty played 1 game in Atlanta Flames and Conroy had a short stint in US before going back to Canada. Cat was counting hours to get out from Ottawa and at least in rumours Kane wasn't even considering offers from Canadian teams. So i trust in homesickness theory.

 

[wingsfannn919191]

875k more than Cat, cap is going up. I see no issues and i believe he would be PPG in Detroit and would help Wings win hockey games.

Guilty.

No one giving that age group players and i've been saying that it's Larkin's age group 27-30 what should be target players.

Lafreniere is one of those guys who would have benefit if he would have been allowed to play in AHL. He was too good to play in juniors but clearly wasn't ready for NHL. Luckily for Rangers he's development wasn't screwd up. But Lambert problem is between ears, you can't fix brains.

Probably not but about a year ago i checked all the American players whom has played +400 games in NHL and from all of those players Gerry O'Flaherty and Craig Conroy were the only ones who spent majority of their careers in Canada. O'Flaherty played 1 game in Atlanta Flames and Conroy had a short stint in US before going back to Canada. Cat was counting hours to get out from Ottawa and at least in rumours Kane wasn't even considering offers from Canadian teams. So i trust in homesickness theory.

Guess we'lll have to disagree on konecky

Well tage Thompson I believe is one of those guys. Think sabres didnt draft him. I dont know who might be available but probably begins with a contender maybe like colorado and trying to go after call Ritchie. We have to grab guys before they explode

I dont want to give up the farm for a 30 yr old who's best days are behind them. Rather a young top line guy whis best days are ahead and will be here longterm.

Of course we'll need to surround them with solid vets preferably with championship experience

 

[Retire91]

Except we also managed to draft our best player...that says something, no? Well unless it dosent fit that narrative of course...

I am not sure I understand, yes I agree with you and its the same period of time the team was driven through the floor. This team didn't just have to pick it self up off the floor it had to climb out of a hole. I guess that part is easy to ignore when the priority is complaining.

 

[Go Wings]

875k more than Cat, cap is going up. I see no issues and i believe he would be PPG in Detroit and would help Wings win hockey games.

Guilty.

No one giving that age group players and i've been saying that it's Larkin's age group 27-30 what should be target players.

Lafreniere is one of those guys who would have benefit if he would have been allowed to play in AHL. He was too good to play in juniors but clearly wasn't ready for NHL. Luckily for Rangers he's development wasn't screwd up. But Lambert problem is between ears, you can't fix brains.

Probably not but about a year ago i checked all the American players whom has played +400 games in NHL and from all of those players Gerry O'Flaherty and Craig Conroy were the only ones who spent majority of their careers in Canada. O'Flaherty played 1 game in Atlanta Flames and Conroy had a short stint in US before going back to Canada. Cat was counting hours to get out from Ottawa and at least in rumours Kane wasn't even considering offers from Canadian teams. So i trust in homesickness theory.

I don't think they are home sick. I think they want to make more money and pay less tax. But we'll see what happens. I would love to get Connor on our team I just think the chances are low.

 

[Retire91]

Hmmm bad choices were made on who to bring in for sure.

Winning hockey is better than watching rebuild hockey. Just my opinion. I wish the playoff stretch was still alive. It's not really the playoff appearances fault they sucked, it was the guy InCharge signing and trading for bad players in the name of the playoff appearances/cup chances.

I'll never ever be mad at someone in charge for trying to actually win. Holland, though, made huge mistakes. You can make some bad moves, but you can't let it have a snowball effect, and it certainly did here with Holland.

That is where I am at, not so much as to rehash the details we talked about as nauseum 7-10 seasons ago. But the acknowledgement that this was never a "normal" rebuild. It's not an excuse its just a reality. I can't help but read all this Yzerman bashing and feel like the subtext is that he is doing a bad job. But I don't see any supporting evidence that a different path would have had this team on a course where we were already be winning. For the last 5 season Yzerman has been doing the things that should have been done 10 seasons ago which is deprioritizing spending assets for meaningless wins now to build an actual core. Then the core actually takes time to first hit the roster, then to actually find their game in the NHL. Right now the only players that have that are Seider and Raymond. Only 2 of his players so far are out of the oven. But more are coming that is why I keep saying its going to take more time but the data and the eye test is already there. The strategy that got us Raymond and Seider is the same strategy he did every season. This roster is going to get more and more help and turn the corner in the not too distant future.

I am not sure it helps when we are still watching this sorry ass hockey for the moment but it's what keeps me going. I look at the players in the pipeline and feel fine watching things grow.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I am not sure I understand, yes I agree with you and its the same period of time the team was driven through the floor. This team didn't just have to pick it self up off the floor it had to climb out of a hole. I guess that part is easy to ignore when the priority is complaining.

I'm not complaining whatsoever...

I'm just not completely on the bandwagon that everything KH did was awful...example; " team driven through the floor."

far too often instead of objectively assessing SYs work, some folks rearrange any SYs negatives to being a KH issue...that's a problem...

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

The YzerPAIN.

 

[Dotter]

This didn't age well in 24hrs. literally.


The most concerning thing... Is literally Red Wings are 2nd or outright last in goals this year. They're getting outscored by the rest of the league significantly. They also don't look talented enough to bump those numbers up and there isn't any young player we can put our hats on to come up and provide goals.

One injury to a top line guy, let alone Larkin, and they're right back to 2020/2019 and idk why people think it's alright or we're keeping pace. The winning isn't sustainable without more goals.

If you're competition is against, Montreal, Buffalo, Ottawa it's prolyl for the 1st overall pick. Maybe they start lighting the lamp up, but nothing suggests that through the play I've been watching.

You literally are not watching games, be honest! Had our star players hit the net on just 20% of the open net shots last night, they win handedly. Are you suggesting the DRW stars poor shooting percentage is sustainable? Tell me you don't watch games without telling me you don't watch games ...

Wings outplayed and out chanced one of the best teams and marginally lost, while our guys whiffing pucks and missing wide open nets. Watch a game sometime, maybe you'll change your weird opinion.

 

[Retire91]

I'm not complaining whatsoever...

I'm just not completely on the bandwagon that everything KH did was awful...example; " team driven through the floor."

far too often instead of objectively assessing SYs work, some folks rearrange any SYs negatives to being a KH issue...that's a problem...

I would disagree. The objects in that mirror are still closer than they appear. Regardless of Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi, Hronek, Nyquivst the roster was destroyed to the point where it set a new bar for being bad. I don't think everything Holland did was awful. Nothing is black and white. But the collective outcome was that this team was "worse" than a last place team. Holland's final roster would have lost playoff series against AHL teams.

I am not even redirecting Yzerman's negatives at being negatives. But I do stand on the issue that things that are being discussed as negative, are pretty forgettable when weighed against the things he has done positive. And that is the exact opposite of Holland post final cup era.