Where did Yzerman go wrong with the rebuild?

[Frk It]

Correct. But using " we signed them to get to the cap floor" as an excuse for signing them doesn't hold water.

A team of this quality should not currently be up against the cap considering the space we had a few years ago.

It does hold water.

Any team in the league would have signed players like Copp, Compher, and Chiarot if they had the holes at 2/3C and in their top 4 on defense we did combined with the amount of cap we had.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

Walman having 8 points already is pretty indicative that the system here in Detroit is atrocious. I mean maybe the eye test and advanced stats say his game isn’t actually as good as the box score says, but that’s looking like an all time bad trade by yzerman.

 

[lilidk]

Yzerman please trade Chiarot

 

[lilidk]

Walman having 8 points already is pretty indicative that the system here in Detroit is atrocious. I mean maybe the eye test and advanced stats say his game isn’t actually as good as the box score says, but that’s looking like an all time bad trade by yzerman.

We might never know , but something was probably going

 

[wingsfannn919191]

Walman having 8 points already is pretty indicative that the system here in Detroit is atrocious. I mean maybe the eye test and advanced stats say his game isn’t actually as good as the box score says, but that’s looking like an all time bad trade by yzerman.

I dont care that walman is gone. I'm bothered that we threw away a 2nd round pick when there was zero need. And for ppl making excuses on trouba...i dont care if his plan was to land him,you only make that move when you acquire him

Poor asset management

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

I dont care that walman is gone. I'm bothered that we threw away a 2nd round pick when there was zero need. And for ppl making excuses on trouba...i dont care if his plan was to land him,you only make that move when you acquire him

Poor asset management

Trouba sucks also with a similarly awful contract to ones that yzerman gives out. No surprise he wanted to trade for him. Dude went to the Ken holland school of handing out term to old geezers that the game has passed by.

 

[Frk It]

Walman having 8 points already is pretty indicative that the system here in Detroit is atrocious. I mean maybe the eye test and advanced stats say his game isn’t actually as good as the box score says, but that’s looking like an all time bad trade by yzerman.

I don’t know that it’s an issue with the system. Dude got plenty of opportunity here and never had more than 9 assists in a season. He scored some timely goals for us but never looked like a plus puck mover to me.

If anything I think it might be an indication that we were more concerned with getting rid of him than getting the most value back. It seems like we felt like getting a 2nd for Gibson justified the hasty moving of Walman. Possibly some emotions involved too.

 

[wingsfannn919191]

Trouba sucks also with a similarly awful contract to ones that yzerman gives out. No surprise he wanted to trade for him. Dude went to the Ken holland school of handing out term to old geezers that the game has passed by.

At least he would have provided us with some toughness and was only a 2 year attachment to him

But yes the copp compher signings were bad from day 1

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

It does hold water.

Any team in the league would have signed players like Copp, Compher, and Chiarot if they had the holes at 2/3C and in their top 4 on defense we did combined with the amount of cap we had.

Did any other team do that or were all other teams more competent at those positions?

Genuine question

 

[Frk It]

Did any other team do that or were all other teams more competent at those positions?

Genuine question

I don’t understand what you’re asking.

 

[Snuggs]

(After Red Wings draft him)

Does the Yzerplan keep him in school 1 more year or send him up right away?

 

[JediOrderPizza]

(After Red Wings draft him)

Does the Yzerplan keep him in school 1 more year or send him up right away?

Naw he plays game 1. We would probably have a big upswing like when Toronto got Matthews.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I don’t understand what you’re asking.

Sorry, you seemed to suggest that all teams would invest as heavily as we did in those x3 older UFA players to fill holes if they had to...my question is simple... did anyone else in fact do so?

 

[FMichael]

Oh good, is Walman the early season "should have kept him" this year?

Yes…Disregard that he was likely a locker room problem…

 

[rangersblues]

At least he would have provided us with some toughness and was only a 2 year attachment to him

But yes the copp compher signings were bad from day 1

You can add Holl to that list.

 

[Frk It]

Sorry, you seemed to suggest that all teams would invest as heavily as we did in those x3 older UFA players to fill holes if they had to...my question is simple... did anyone else in fact do so?

Look at the free agent tracker in the off-season. It literally happens every off-season.

If teams didn't have similar holes and similar cash to spend, you would see 0 free agent signings every summer.

Do you think only star players and league minimum guys sign deals in free agency? There are a ton of Copps, Comphers, Chiarots out there... and they all get scooped up.

 

[SirloinUB]

Copp has shown some real chemistry with Kane these last couple of games.

The haters are going to be in shambles if he keeps it up.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Look at the free agent tracker in the off-season. It literally happens every off-season.

If teams didn't have similar holes and similar cash to spend, you would see 0 free agent signings every summer.

Do you think only star players and league minimum guys sign deals in free agency? There are a ton of Copps, Comphers, Chiarots out there... and they all get scooped up.

I'm only asking as the narrative is beginning to shift by a # of people on this board from 'we needed to insulate our prospects with proven winners" to, "we had no choice but to sign these specific players simply to reach cap floor"

This isn't about what another franchise did or does (at least not in the DRW section of the forum)...it's 100% only about what the DRW did or do...

 

[SirloinUB]

I'm only asking as the narrative is beginning to shift by a # of people on this board from 'we needed to insulate our prospects with proven winners" to, "we had no choice but to sign these specific players simply to reach cap floor"

This isn't about what another franchise did or does (at least not in the DRW section of the forum)...it's 100% only about what the DRW did or do...

I mean I am someone who has posted that the red wings were below the floor and need to add but also said that it could have been other guys like Gudbranson or Burakovsy (as examples) so your post is coming off as quite disingenuous.

Moreover, both things can be true. Yzerman had to sign some guys. The guys he chose, were guys that could be viewed as providing insulation and a professional approach to hockey for the kids to learn from.

 

[Mr Nimbus]

I'm super optimistic about the future. All his "5 years down the road" moves are fantastic. We'll have tons of cap space, and a loaded prospect pool. His handling of the present is garbage. Copp I understand. But the handling of our defense as a whole the past 2 years is just....woof. gus, petry and holl at this point are just terrible hockey players (I think 10% of the cap goes to those guys... f***ing hell I literally just looked it up, thats just gross). I get we're not close to a championship, but I thought we could at least make the playoffs playing good hockey. You gotta give us something in the meantime. Uninspired hockey by garbage vets ain't it.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I mean I am someone who has posted that the red wings were below the floor but also added that it could have been other guys like Gudbranson or Burakovsy (as examples) so your post is coming off as quite ingenuine.

Moreover, both things can be true. Yzerman had to sign some guys. The guys he chose, were guys that could be viewed as providing insulation and a professional approach to hockey for the kids.

What's disingenuous about it?

Instead of objectively looking at the moves we made (and praising/criticizing constructively) the narrative of late by a # of folks is, we simply had no choice..

Copp, Chariot and or others "may" simply have been bad moves

 

[wingsfannn919191]

I'm only asking as the narrative is beginning to shift by a # of people on this board from 'we needed to insulate our prospects with proven winners" to, "we had no choice but to sign these specific players simply to reach cap floor"

This isn't about what another franchise did or does (at least not in the DRW section of the forum)...it's 100% only about what the DRW did or do...

If we were that worried about reaching the cap we could have added a Monahan and got a 1st attached to it for a short term. Or a laine(even though he got hurt) and got a top 40 pick thrown our way to draft or use as trade chips

Marc Staal was the only like trade we did. Would have rather done that then add copp,compher for 5 years. None of these guys we signed will be a part of the longterm future. They're all patch guys. People will be upset but I don't think yzerman's signing debrincat when he's up

Cant for the life of me see him giving out a 7-8 year deal

 

[ShanahanMan]

I'm super optimistic about the future. All his "5 years down the road" moves are fantastic. We'll have tons of cap space, and a loaded prospect pool. His handling of the present is garbage. Copp I understand. But the handling of our defense as a whole the past 2 years is just....woof. gus, petry and holl at this point are just terrible hockey players (I think 10% of the cap goes to those guys... f***ing hell I literally just looked it up, thats just gross). I get we're not close to a championship, but I thought we could at least make the playoffs playing good hockey. You gotta give us something in the meantime. Uninspired hockey by garbage vets ain't it.

Wish I shared your enthusiasm about our prospect pool. People here used to say the same about the future star core of Zadina, Veleno, Svech, Chowloski and Rasmussen.

 

[SirloinUB]

What's disingenuous about it?

Instead of objectively looking at the moves we made (and praising/criticizing constructively) the narrative of late by a # of folks is, we simply had no choice..

Copp, Chariot and or others "may" simply have been bad moves

You said "we had no choice but to sign these specific players simply to reach cap floor" when I have suggested it could have been alternative players but it had to be some guys making real money.

Moreover, both things can be true. They needed to sign some guys for cap reasons and they wanted guys that could insulate the prospects. There is absolutely nothing contradictory about that.

And to be fair, you don't have to love the guys they picked but they had to spend meaningful money.

The team was about 10 million below the cap floor heading into free agency. As a rebuilding team you want to be above (not at) the floor so you can sell off other expiring pieces at the deadline so the Red Wings needed to spend at least 15 million in cap space that summer.

If you look at who signed deals that summer none of it was very appealing. Maybe they should have taken on cap dumps instead. Thats fair. Either way the point is that both of the following statements are true:

1) they had to spend meaningful money
2) they wanted guys that could insulate and mentor the young guys.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

What's disingenuous about it?

Instead of objectively looking at the moves we made (and praising/criticizing constructively) the narrative of late by a # of folks is, we simply had no choice..

Copp, Chariot and or others "may" simply have been bad moves

Realistically they are probably indifferent moves more than "bad" moves. Good players aren't going to sign in Detroit until we are better and no one has an incentive to sign in Detroit on the cheap at this point. Those that hate the contract as fooling themselves by thinking that, but for the Copp or Chariot signing, XYZ would have signed in Detroit. More likely than not it would have been some other name of relatively equal quality signed to similar dollar and term. They may not be helping us, but they aren't really hurting us. They are just...there.