Where are Swiss talents?

[Kuracmugger]

Dont get me wrong it would certainly be a good step and probably the best "quick fix" to correct the course. But you have to look at junior coaching in the clubs and how the national teams are run as well to really get to the root of the problem. Those are the main reasons our U18 players are this much behind the top nations right now. Even in the scenario you are describing those players would just start now to make the NLA while already trailing their international peers.

Fair point but i feel there is some improving in terms of infrastructure available for the players. Coaching is different but i don’t know what needs to change can you kame your ideas?

 

[Speyer]

Fair point but i feel there is some improving in terms of infrastructure available for the players.

I am not denying that. Just from what I have read from experts that infrastructure is not improving as fast as in other countries.

Coaching is different but i don’t know what needs to change can you kame your ideas?

Not my ideas. I am just repeting what other people with knowledge on the subject have stated:

A more professional coaching formation in generall. Sending the coaches to different countries to learn other coaching philosophies and get out of the "swiss bubble". Have the best coaches teach the youngest kids instead of U20, so those kids can learn the fundamentals from professionals. More individual focus on "special skills" training like shooting ability etc. Coaches should worry more about developing their players individually than about the success of the team in their league. A greater incentive on a proper work out plan and nutrition. I am sure there is much more you could do. There certainly are people who would know how to implement the necessary changes. Its just that I feel that a lot of people in the federation and with the clubs are dinosaurs who don't really have the mindset to do it.

 

[Kuracmugger]

I am not denying that. Just from what I have read from experts that infrastructure is not improving as fast as in other countries.



Not my ideas. I am just repeting what other people with knowledge on the subject have stated:

A more professional coaching formation in generall. Sending the coaches to different countries to learn other coaching philosophies and get out of the "swiss bubble". Have the best coaches teach the youngest kids instead of U20, so those kids can learn the fundamentals from professionals. More individual focus on "special skills" training like shooting ability etc. Coaches should worry more about developing their players individually than about the success of the team in their league. A greater incentive on a proper work out plan and nutrition. I am sure there is much more you could do. There certainly are people who would know how to implement the necessary changes. Its just that I feel that a lot of people in the federation and with the clubs are dinosaurs who don't really have the mindset to do it.

Totally agree i know a coach who is in finland every year and also visited a camp of a swedish skills coach so maybe there are a few coaches who start doing this. But i agree the best people have to teach the young kids. I would say in the age groups u13-u15 for the u11 an optional extra skills Training would be an optin. In the u11 you should still have a lot of fun so the kids stick to the game.

 

[salamandra]

Can you read? I told you already that Moser isn't NHL material. Not a good player, at least not at international level. You're talking out of your ass again. Why Knak didn't get drafted...nobody knows. Piss poor coaching at the under 20's surely didn't help his cause though.

But if you still think that Malgin or Müller are any good then I'm not surprised to read about your other hot takes.

Level: Expert Only personal attack nothing more.

PS: What happend to my post? Why Hinterlands posts where he insults people are not deleted? His trolling in others threats about slovak prospects (for example Dvorsky) obviously alright. Hmm, double standards.

You can see how this person behaves when he does not share an opinion with someone. However, he is obviously far from the truth.

I really do not think that this threat is out of date. Only one swiss player was drafted, BTW overager. Or does anyone see new Hischier, Fiala, Malgin etc on the horizon? Okey next players group born 06 looks interesting (Ustnikov, Reber, Bosson, Ponzetto ...), but are they better like Niederreiter, Hischier, Meier, etc? And I know it is too early, but we at least know the basic predictions of what it looks like in the younger years (07, 08). I remember how it was written about 15-year-old Fiala, Malgin, Hischier ... what their talents are. And now there is nothing.

I hope for a reasonable discussion, not like with Hinterland (terrible coach of NT, the same all over with personal insults). Because there are reasonable people here who have a great overview of Swiss/German prospects.

 

[ItWasJustified]

I really do not think that this threat is out of date. Only one swiss player was drafted, BTW overager. Or does anyone see new Hischier, Fiala, Malgin etc on the horizon? Okey next players group born 06 looks interesting (Ustnikov, Reber, Bosson, Ponzetto ...), but are they better like Niederreiter, Hischier, Meier, etc? And I know it is too early, but we at least know the basic predictions of what it looks like in the younger years (07, 08). I remember how it was written about 15-year-old Fiala, Malgin, Hischier ... what their talents are. And now there is nothing.

NLA did a mistake by raising the upper limit of import players. When your top 6 forwards and top 4 defensemen are full of expensive imports, your best talents are blocked.

 

[Speyer]

NLA did a mistake by raising the upper limit of import players. When your top 6 forwards and top 4 defensemen are full of expensive imports, your best talents are blocked.

Me,@Hinterland and some other Switzerland based posters have discussed this at nauseam on this board. Reliance on imports in the NLA is a problem. But the main issue is our junior system. You can't block spots for high level prospects if you don't produce them anymore.

I really do not think that this threat is out of date. Only one swiss player was drafted, BTW overager. Or does anyone see new Hischier, Fiala, Malgin etc on the horizon? Okey next players group born 06 looks interesting (Ustnikov, Reber, Bosson, Ponzetto ...), but are they better like Niederreiter, Hischier, Meier, etc?

No, they are not, at least not as of today. You never know what is going to happen as Meier was a late bloomer himself for example. I am not expecting any of them to get taken in the first round, even though I wouldn't rule it out completely in Ustinkovs case either. But it's a much stronger crop than our most recent birth years, and certainly a step in the right direction. I am fully expecting multiple 06 born players to get drafted next year.

And I know it is too early, but we at least know the basic predictions of what it looks like in the younger years (07, 08). I remember how it was written about 15-year-old Fiala, Malgin, Hischier ... what their talents are. And now there is nothing.

I consider 07 a weak birth year in regard to both depth and high end talent. No surefire NHL prospect. Haven't seen any 08 born players yet, but experts seem quite high on that class. Guys like Nolan Rohrbach and Elia Livio Liniger and to a lesser extent also Liam Dubé, Raphael Achermann and Fabrice Bouvard could be draft candidates in 26 and 27. In regard to the next blue chip prospect, usually Rohrbach and especially Jonah Neuenschwander (09) have recently been brought up. But as you said, it's to early to tell for that right now.

 

[pgfan66]

Pronman has Ustinkov in the first round of his ranking/mock draft he posted on Wednesday....

 

[Hinterland]

NLA did a mistake by raising the upper limit of import players. When your top 6 forwards and top 4 defensemen are full of expensive imports, your best talents are blocked.

The exact opposite is the case. Money is actually the reasoning of the clubs wanting more imports. The Lions, one of the fincancially most potent teams, were actually the lone club against raising the number of imports. The problem clubs have is that Swiss born players or players with a Swiss licence are earning too much. Like the best Swiss players are getting easily twice or trice the salary of most of the imports. For most teams this isn't a problem because they have more than enough money at hand (but they complain anyway and therefore they're pro raising the number of imports) but there's also a few teams with limited financial options so raising the number of imports was actually part of a financial fairplay movement. What imports are earning in Switzerland is still a lot compared to other leagues but it's not much compared to the best Swiss players. For example, Kloten got to sign Jonathan Ang for peanuts. They could never afford to compete for a Swiss player of similar quality. At least not financially. Kloten has strictly limited financial options, signed barely any players after getting promoted. On the other hand, for most clubs, money almost doesn't matter. Either because they're just creating money like crazy (like Bern for example) or because they've got wealthy ownership.

I'm rather indifferent on this As mentioned already by fellow Swiss posters, the problems are elsewhere. The level of coaching is very bad and teams do nothing about this or the rather bad junior leagues. The SL is a problem as well. NL teams want to set it up as a development league to make a bridge between the very strong NL and the very weak junior leagues but they're reluctant to support the SL teams. Zug even withdrew their academy team (which was very successful) from the SL. Those are the real problems in Switzerland, not the number of imports. Also, for as long as clubs find imports which are significantly better than the Swiss players they could sign, this also makes the league better. KHL no longer being an option for most players helps in that regard. I think raising import numbers wouldn't otherwise have helped the quality of the NL nearly as much as it does now. So if those guys don't just take away spots but are actually helping to bring the league to another level then that's cool with me. Guys like Reinbacher or next season Ustinkov and De Luca are gonna benefit from playing vs really strong competition.

 

[salamandra]

Me,@Hinterland and some other Switzerland based posters have discussed this at nauseam on this board. Reliance on imports in the NLA is a problem. But the main issue is our junior system. You can't block spots for high level prospects if you don't produce them anymore.


No, they are not, at least not as of today. You never know what is going to happen as Meier was a late bloomer himself for example. I am not expecting any of them to get taken in the first round, even though I wouldn't rule it out completely in Ustinkovs case either. But it's a much stronger crop than our most recent birth years, and certainly a step in the right direction. I am fully expecting multiple 06 born players to get drafted next year.



I consider 07 a weak birth year in regard to both depth and high end talent. No surefire NHL prospect. Haven't seen any 08 born players yet, but experts seem quite high on that class. Guys like Nolan Rohrbach and Elia Livio Liniger and to a lesser extent also Liam Dubé, Raphael Achermann and Fabrice Bouvard could be draft candidates in 26 and 27. In regard to the next blue chip prospect, usually Rohrbach and especially Jonah Neuenschwander (09) have recently been brought up. But as you said, it's to early to tell for that right now.

Thanks for your report. As always very apt.

 

[Speyer]

The exact opposite is the case. Money is actually the reasoning of the clubs wanting more imports. The Lions, one of the fincancially most potent teams, were actually the lone club against raising the number of imports. The problem clubs have is that Swiss born players or players with a Swiss licence are earning too much. Like the best Swiss players are getting easily twice or trice the salary of most of the imports. For most teams this isn't a problem because they have more than enough money at hand (but they complain anyway so they're for raising the number of imports) but there's also a few teams with limited financial options so raising the number of imports was actually part of a financial fairplay movement. What imports are earning in Switzerland is still a lot compared to other leagues but it's not much compared to the best Swiss players. For example, Kloten got to sign Jonathan Ang for peanuts. They could never afford to compete for a Swiss player of similar quality. At least not financially. Kloten has strictly limited financial options, signed barely any players after getting promoted. On the other hand, for most clubs, money almost doesn't matter. Either because they're just creating money like crazy (like Bern for example) or because they've got wealthy ownership.

I'm rather indifferent on this As mentioned already by fellow Swiss posters, the problems are elsewhere. The level of coaching is very bad and teams do nothing about this or the rather bad junior leagues. The SL is a problem as well. NL teams want to set it up as a development league to make a bridge between the very strong NL and the very weak junior leagues but they're reluctant to support the SL teams. Zug even withdrew their academy team (which was very successful) from the SL. Those are the real problems in Switzerland, not the number of imports. Also, for as long as clubs find imports which are significantly better than the Swiss players they could sign, this also makes the league better. KHL no longer being an option for most players helps in that regard. I think raising import numbers wouldn't otherwise have helped the quality of the NL nearly as much as it does now. So if those guys don't just take away spots but are actually helping to bring the league to another level then that's cool with me. Guys like Reinbacher or next season Ustinkov and De Luca are gonna benefit from playing vs really strong competition.

I agree with a lot of this. The imports make the smaller teams and the League as a whole more competitive. My main issue lies with the rich teams who are just loading up their rosters with top 6 players from the overflowing market now, when they said before the rule was implemented that they mainly intended to by sign cheaper imports for the third line. The result is that ice time on the special teams is now often completely out of reach for any Swiss player that isn't already an established "star". There needs to be some sort of mechanism that obliges the teams to give Swiss players below a certain age a set minimum of ice time. This would also drive down the inflated market value of our domestic player base. But as you said, this is nowhere near the biggest problem in Swiss hockey right now.