Elite Prospects - NL Stats 2020-2021
Only 3 U20 players have scored any points in NLA this season, one of them is Marco Rossi.
Only 3 U20 players have scored any points in NLA this season, one of them is Marco Rossi.
Where are Swiss talents?
- Thread starter Kshahdoo
- Start date
You see the point!
Did he have the option to play for the Swiss ?
I’m not sure what happened to their development.
The latest crops of Swiss talents haven't been really great (when Simon Knak is your best draft hopeful, you're not having a good year). But U20 players in the Swiss NL are pretty rare in the 1st place. The higher caliber players tend to go to NA for their junior years; those that stay generally aren't good enough for the NL (though there are exceptions, like Ben Baumgartner last year). Some clubs have a farm team in the confusingly-named Swiss League (NLB), where younger players might play.
Swiss junior development seems like a bit of a mess right now. That might change in the coming years: COVID has spurred some big changes in Swiss hockey, with the NL planning to introduce a salary cap and to double the imports limits. It's still unclear how it will affect young players, but there's been speculation that it might lead them to make the NL a closed league and to make the SL into a pure development league.
The change to the player license system may also affect things in juniors. With players like Rossi no longer considered Swiss players, young foreign players may have less incentives to do their junior hockey in Switzerland, and it's unclear how it will affect player development. Will be interesting to follow.
Swiss junior development seems like a bit of a mess right now. That might change in the coming years: COVID has spurred some big changes in Swiss hockey, with the NL planning to introduce a salary cap and to double the imports limits. It's still unclear how it will affect young players, but there's been speculation that it might lead them to make the NL a closed league and to make the SL into a pure development league.
The change to the player license system may also affect things in juniors. With players like Rossi no longer considered Swiss players, young foreign players may have less incentives to do their junior hockey in Switzerland, and it's unclear how it will affect player development. Will be interesting to follow.
Wait... Marco Rossi is from Dornbirn, Vorarlberg. Which is close to the Swiss Border but clearly not Switzerland.
How come he would be considered Swiss? (I seriously don’t know)
How come he would be considered Swiss? (I seriously don’t know)
I think there are a lot of underrated Suisse players who can find themselves as bottom 6ers or bottom-pairing defenders that prefer a greater role in NLA. With that said, yeah it seems that all that hype half a decade ago has disappeared. I wonder if they should copy Germany's programme in how the Germans reconstructed their entire development, because it's increased the skills of their depth players regardless of who their stars are.
I believe if you come up through the swiss junior system, you get a swiss player license as far as counting as an import or not. Elvis Merzlikins had the same waiver, being Latvian but developing in switzerland. Perhaps someone on the western europe board could give better insight.
The Swiss NL has an agreement that teams can only play 4 players without Swiss nationality at a time. There are exceptions to this rule, including, IIRC, some for players that come from border areas and players with Swiss parents. One of those exceptions is that young foreign players that have played in the Swiss system for a certain number of years, like Rossi, can get a Swiss player license, which means they wouldn't be counted against their team's import limit. This can be very advantageous, because with the league's relatively high salaries (and the high quality of life in Switzerland), those import spots are very competitive, often going to guys with NHL experience. Swiss roster spots, in comparison, are much less competitive and also very well paid (the average league salary is roughly 241k in US$).
But now there's been talk that this will change, and that after the import limit is raised to 10, non-Swiss players with a Swiss license will count against that limit. Which means there will be less incentives for non-Swiss players to use Swiss juniors as a gateway to the Swiss pros.
Admittedly, for someone of Rossi's caliber, it doesn't really matter. But it might have an effect on Swiss player development long-term.
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Obviously this past year was not their best draft year, but given the small size of the Swiss player base, they have done well in recent years. The Germans have a had some top talents emerge recently from a comparable player base, but that should be seen as a remarkable overachievement, not something that every country can easily match.
Swiss talent is concentrated in the watch, creamy cheese, and rich chocolate industries.
BlizzardSloth
Registered User
There's a lot of people not knowing the difference between a player having a Swiss licence, and therefore not counting as an import player, and a player having a Swiss passport and being eligible for the national team.
For the main topic, I'd say it's a big problem that teams from the NLA rarely give roster spots to junior players these days. With talks about rising the import limits, there's also a discussion about rising the age of the highest junior league from U20 to U22, so players will stay on a lower level even longer. Another thing is, that Swiss players have a tendency to develop later, since there's not a lot of programs in Switzerland that focus solely on sports. Most players will do a apprenticeship for several years or go to university besides playing hockey. Also, besides not having a lot of strong players eligible for the draft during the last years, I really do wonder why Simon Knak and J.J. Moser went undrafted.
Up to around 10 year olds, Switzerland has a really really top class junior system, the kids learn to skate very well and handle the puck real smooth. Then the older they get, training should get a lot tougher, which is currently not happening. Games become too slow, there's not enough intensity, and every junior in the Swiss system falls from the world's top level slowly but surely. The gap starts to build up at around 11-12 years old, by 14-16 they are too far behind to have a chance - unless they leave the country at that point. Many also just quit, because they realize that they will never become much of anything, or continue hockey just as a Sunday-hobby.
I've personally had discussions some years ago with a head of a major junior club in Switzerland, telling him that the current level of training is not enough, he has to increase it, otherwise all the great talent that he has in his organization will be wasted. He thought I was nuts, and continued happily in his comfort zone. As did the players, comfy as hell, and all that talent did go wasted.
Too many discussions, not enough action, that's where the Swiss talents went missing. And focusing discussions on how many foreigners are allowed in the NL and SL, and if foreigners with a Swiss license count or not, is a complete waste of time. It has absolutely nothing to do with anything, one way or the other that doesn't make the Swiss junior leagues any less crappy.
There would be enough talent in Switzerland to produce on average 10 NHL draftees every year, but that talent is just ruined before it materializes. Hockey is a competitive sport, if you want to become better than the others, you have to work harder than the others. It's really that simple.
I've personally had discussions some years ago with a head of a major junior club in Switzerland, telling him that the current level of training is not enough, he has to increase it, otherwise all the great talent that he has in his organization will be wasted. He thought I was nuts, and continued happily in his comfort zone. As did the players, comfy as hell, and all that talent did go wasted.
Too many discussions, not enough action, that's where the Swiss talents went missing. And focusing discussions on how many foreigners are allowed in the NL and SL, and if foreigners with a Swiss license count or not, is a complete waste of time. It has absolutely nothing to do with anything, one way or the other that doesn't make the Swiss junior leagues any less crappy.
There would be enough talent in Switzerland to produce on average 10 NHL draftees every year, but that talent is just ruined before it materializes. Hockey is a competitive sport, if you want to become better than the others, you have to work harder than the others. It's really that simple.
There was hype about swiss players few years ago ending with Nico Hischier drafted from 1st position. From this point I think the Switzerland is little bit struggling to produce high end talent.
Are there any 2004/2005 players worth to watch?
Are there any 2004/2005 players worth to watch?
I'm no expert by any means and as a Swiss i would love to get more information about Swiss junior hockey but other than in North America it isn't really a thing here. The WJCs don't get a whole lot of attention and the press only starts talking about a player if he is doing great in his draft year (like Nico Hischier). So it's hard to get any insights into Swiss junior players/hockey unless you start watching games.
But some swiss players that i heard good things about are:
- Kimo Gruber (C | Kloten U20 | 2005 | eligible for 2023): At this point he seems to be the brightest star in swiss junior hockey. He is 15 and plays in the swiss U20-Elit league. Altough he has cooled off after a very good start to the season he has 12 points in 24 games while playing against players that are 3-4 years older than him. For comparison: Nico Hischier didn't compete as well on the same level as a 15 year old. Does this mean he is as talented as Nico? I have no clue. Here is a thread about him.
- Noah Greuter (LW| Kloten U20 | 2004 | eligible for 2022): Noah Greuter is playing for the same team as Kimo Gruber and is contributing very well. He has 17 points in 21 games. While also playing against players that are older than him. He is a year younger than Kimo and therefore is eligible for 2022.
- The Meier Twins ( C / F | Kloten U17 | 2005 | eligible for 2023): Simon and Rafael Meier are twin brothers that play for the same organisation as Kimo and Noah. I've just heard that they are looking very promising. They play for the U17 team and are performing very well.
Others look promising for their age/play beyond their peers age group:
2021:
- Brennan Othmann (LW | EHC Olten | 2003 | SL): It seems like he has a dual citizenship but will probably play for Canada in the future (as he had in the past). But he is tearing up the swiss second division and might be drafted in the 1st round in this years draft.
- Noah Meier (D | GCK Lions | 2002 | SL ): Last year he looked very very promising and played some games in the NL. But it seems like he didn't make the jump that was expected from him after last season. Still might be picked in the 4th-7th round.
- Lorenzo Canonica (C/LW | Lugano U-20 / Shawinigan | 2003 | U20-Elite / QMJHL): Started the year in the U-20 Elit league and will probably end it in the QMJHL. He played some games in the NL last year and looked promising at the U20 WJC.
- Attilio Biasca (C/LW | EVZ Academy / Halifax | 2003 | SL / QMJHL): Same as Canonica. Started in the U20-Elit league and will head to the Q. Was also part of the swiss WJC team.
- Liekit Reichle (F| GCK Lions U20| 2003 | U20-Elit): He is the current topscorer of the U-20 Elit league while beeing only 17. I have no idea if he gets drafted.
2022:
- Lian Bichsel (D | Biel-Bienne U20 | 2004 | U20-Elit): I don't know much about him but he has started playing some games in the National League as a 16 year old.
- Alessio Beglieri (G | Biel-Bienne U20 | 2004 U20-Elit): Sadly there are no goaltender stats available for the U20-Elit league. But he seems to be very promising.
2023:
- Timo Bünzli (D | GCK Lions U-20 | 2005 | U20-Elit): Is besides Gruber the only U-16 player that played a fair share of U-20 Elit games this year.
2024:
- David Bosson (F | Gottéron U17 | 2006 |U17-Elit): 18 points in 27 games as a 14 year old in the U17-Elit league He just turned 15.
BlizzardSloth and SwissMountaineer have mentioned the most important reasons for the recent drought in Swiss NHL level prospects even though a couple of below average birthyears have contributed as well. As far as the most promising players from the next few drafts are concerned, these are worth mentioning in my opionion:
Lian Bichsel (2022): Very tall and physical defenseman who is an excellent skater and puck mover for his size. I dont think he will ever be an offensive dynamo but his wrister and vision are decent enough to give him second pairing potential in NHL if he continues to develop well.
Noah Greuter (2022): Boom or bust type of a goalscoring winger. His skating looks extremely raw (stance and agility moreso than speed wich is fine) and he often looses his temper wich results in game misconduct penalties on a regular basis. On the other hand his offensive toolset is very promising. He has a great combination of shooting ability (a great slapshot especially), hands and vision. In five years I could see him as a top six player in the NHL but also not playing hockey at all anymore. Will be interesting to see if he can figure it out.
Jonas Taibel (2022): I have heard good things about him but have only seen him play once or twice last year. Should be a target in the CHL import draft.
Kimo Gruber (2023) High IQ center with both offensive and defensive abilities. Very good hands and probably the best wrist shot i have ever seen on a Swiss player of his age. Skating is good but probably not elite yet and he needs to improve his motor wich seems lacking at times when he doesnt have the puck. Since he is so young I wont make a prediction but I don't see him quite on the level of Hischier and Fiala who I saw at about the same age.
2021 looks wide open to me though. I have seen a bunch of these guys play as well but not recently so I wont make a prediction there. The most promising prospects of that year have been stated here anyway and they probably wont go higher than the later rounds.
As far as goaltenders goe, thats just a shot in the dark. A lot of people bringing up Beglieri wich seems to be based on his performance at the youth olympic games. Unfortunately a lot of our better goaltending prospects including Beglieri seem to be quite small though. 6 foot is just not enough for an NHL goaltender and some of our more promising guys are even below that.
Lian Bichsel (2022): Very tall and physical defenseman who is an excellent skater and puck mover for his size. I dont think he will ever be an offensive dynamo but his wrister and vision are decent enough to give him second pairing potential in NHL if he continues to develop well.
Noah Greuter (2022): Boom or bust type of a goalscoring winger. His skating looks extremely raw (stance and agility moreso than speed wich is fine) and he often looses his temper wich results in game misconduct penalties on a regular basis. On the other hand his offensive toolset is very promising. He has a great combination of shooting ability (a great slapshot especially), hands and vision. In five years I could see him as a top six player in the NHL but also not playing hockey at all anymore. Will be interesting to see if he can figure it out.
Jonas Taibel (2022): I have heard good things about him but have only seen him play once or twice last year. Should be a target in the CHL import draft.
Kimo Gruber (2023) High IQ center with both offensive and defensive abilities. Very good hands and probably the best wrist shot i have ever seen on a Swiss player of his age. Skating is good but probably not elite yet and he needs to improve his motor wich seems lacking at times when he doesnt have the puck. Since he is so young I wont make a prediction but I don't see him quite on the level of Hischier and Fiala who I saw at about the same age.
2021 looks wide open to me though. I have seen a bunch of these guys play as well but not recently so I wont make a prediction there. The most promising prospects of that year have been stated here anyway and they probably wont go higher than the later rounds.
As far as goaltenders goe, thats just a shot in the dark. A lot of people bringing up Beglieri wich seems to be based on his performance at the youth olympic games. Unfortunately a lot of our better goaltending prospects including Beglieri seem to be quite small though. 6 foot is just not enough for an NHL goaltender and some of our more promising guys are even below that.
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Killerjas
Registered User
Kuracmugger
Registered User
- Oct 15, 2019
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SCL Tigers Player Jamiro Reber looks promising, wa one of the best players on the u17 squad as an underager.Jamiro Reber at eliteprospects.com
Swiss U18 team doesn't look great... I mean, it actually looked decent vs Canada 5 on 5, but they didn't play a lot of 5 on 5 because of penalties, and they sucked on PK. They were destroyed by Belarus as well.
- Sep 29, 2016
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Team looks great. It's just that it's poorly coached (which is a problem with almost all Swiss national teams) and has zero discipline. They take far too many avoidable penalties despite their PK being horrible. The team itself would be pretty good if there was some proper coach in charge.
I couldn’t say it better . A couple clowns masquerading as coaches last night behind the bench . The HC kept embarrassing himself with the diving hand gestures after every stupid penalty his team took ...lol Starts and ends with him. Feel sorry for the players
snipes
How cold? I’m ice cold.
- Dec 28, 2015
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Their big D man playing as an underager for Switzerland number 9 looked really impressive last night.
Lian Bischel, I’d have a first round grade on him for the 2022 draft. He’s massive, physical with a mean streak, can skate well for a big man, and has a bit of offensive upside as well.
He’s a guy to follow going forward.
Lian Bichsel at eliteprospects.com
Lian Bischel, I’d have a first round grade on him for the 2022 draft. He’s massive, physical with a mean streak, can skate well for a big man, and has a bit of offensive upside as well.
He’s a guy to follow going forward.
Lian Bichsel at eliteprospects.com
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