When would you blow it up?

[Myllz]

I like Krueger, but it’s playoffs or bust it up. Sabres have shown no cohesion under him, so as much as the guys like him- he’s gotta go if they don’t turn it around.

You then ask Eich what he wants to do. If he wants out, understandable- use the offseason to find the best deal possible.

Not sure what ya do with Skinner. Keep Dahlin.

Hall and Staal- depends where we are at the deadline, but if we’re in a CBJ situation we gotta sell. I guess it’s only if we miraculously catch fire that this team stays as is, otherwise I’d like to see major changes in the offseason.

Why? Genuinely curious, not being argumentative.

 

[Washed Up 29YearOld]

I know people will disagree but I don't like this idea that if a player quits on the team, there's this mentality of "his choice", "can't blame him". Sabres organization have been nothing but loyal to him for over half a decade. He signed a contract with Buffalo for 8 years. I don't want to award a disgruntled, spoiled players and grant his wish of trading him because he quit on the team only for the player to win a cup the next year. DONE with that. If Eichel quits on the team too bad because he signed for 8 years and he's going nowhere.

If Eichel asks for a trade and he's traded all it does is communicate that: if you want to not play for Buffalo just ask for a trade and you can quit any time- and it's perfectly okay to do.

 

[Fezzy126]

I like Krueger, but it’s playoffs or bust it up. Sabres have shown no cohesion under him, so as much as the guys like him- he’s gotta go if they don’t turn it around.

You then ask Eich what he wants to do. If he wants out, understandable- use the offseason to find the best deal possible.

Not sure what ya do with Skinner. Keep Dahlin.

Hall and Staal- depends where we are at the deadline, but if we’re in a CBJ situation we gotta sell. I guess it’s only if we miraculously catch fire that this team stays as is, otherwise I’d like to see major changes in the offseason.

Regarding the bolded, f*** that. He's stuck with us and can stay till his contract runs out.

We're not happy with Okposo or Skinner's contracts, they're not asking us what we want to do...

 

[sabremike]

Pegulas are young enough and have kids involved. They’ve also invested a ton into the community and own the Bills. Like it or not, they’re here to stay for decades so the quicker people realize new ownership is a pipe dream the less painful it’ll be holding out hope

When the STH base falls to Arizona or Florida levels and they are losing money hand over fist they might reconsider owning the Sabres.

 

[Zach716]

When the STH base falls to Arizona or Florida levels and they are losing money hand over fist they might reconsider owning the Sabres.

They make enough money from the Bills alone to cover any Sabres losses

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Why? Genuinely curious, not being argumentative.

I hated Bylsma and Housley, so that’s a factor- I just can’t accept that we’ve hired 3 bad ones in a row, and that tends to get thrown in our faces anytime we dislike the current coach. Like it’s impossible for a series of coaches to all be unacceptable.

The bigger factor though- I like players’ coaches, I like cerebral guys. I was plenty hyped when they hired him, the players still seem to love him so that’s good- but there’s gotta be results, and it’s way past the “let’s wait and see” period even for me. It’s like Phil Jackson but without the actual knowledge of the sport at hand, and that’s just a life coach. I’ll still argue for kinder coaches with better communication skills, but in Ralph’s case I wonder if some hockey knowledge is lacking- and if he wouldn’t benefit from an occasional Ruff-esque flipout.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Regarding the bolded, f*** that. He's stuck with us and can stay till his contract runs out.

We're not happy with Okposo or Skinner's contracts, they're not asking us what we want to do...

To whose benefit though? Do we just wanna waste the guy’s career? Like- if we aren’t in a playoff position and it looks like Hall is gone, and if Eich then says he wants out in the offseason- how do we once again tell him we’ll have the roster next year? And do we really trust he wouldn’t purposely or unconsciously go PL Dubois at that point?

Obviously I’d rather he stay, but if Krueger really isn’t the answer and we really don’t have the roster at this point even with the likely temporary stay of Hall- at that point I wonder if we trade for a buttload of prospects. Eich alone isn’t getting us to the playoffs, so why keep doing that? We can fault him to varying degrees, but I don’t wanna make him stay just to honor the contract. Whatever game he shows up with isn’t enough to get it done, personally don’t wanna keep forcing a futile effort if there aren’t some sorta positive signs heading into next year.

 

[hizzoner]

The first home game with Krueger as coach I sat in the stands with my co sths and we were overjoyed. The schemes and execution were near flawless. I could see the coach knew what he wanted and so did the players. So what has happened? Have the players decided they can and should do things their way because they are so good? Is Krueger just too nice to his team full of fragile egos who will just cower in the corner if K lays down the law? Does he want them to play an in your face game that is beneath their dignity as stars? Has Krueger changed what he knew would work because he cannot get acceptance on a full time basis? It is tough to get rid of a team especially right now. If there is to be a change it has to be for a coach who can get more out of this talented bunch of non performing contracts. Something tells me Scotty Bowman on steroids would have trouble.

 

[threeVo]

I stopped caring about this team long before this season even started. Watch them here and there, but its just the same story every year. Cant score at ES for what seems like a decade. You just cant be good if you are impotent during the majority of the minutes a game is ongoing

 

[DJN21]

The first home game with Krueger as coach I sat in the stands with my co sths and we were overjoyed. The schemes and execution were near flawless. I could see the coach knew what he wanted and so did the players. So what has happened? Have the players decided they can and should do things their way because they are so good? Is Krueger just too nice to his team full of fragile egos who will just cower in the corner if K lays down the law? Does he want them to play an in your face game that is beneath their dignity as stars? Has Krueger changed what he knew would work because he cannot get acceptance on a full time basis? It is tough to get rid of a team especially right now. If there is to be a change it has to be for a coach who can get more out of this talented bunch of non performing contracts. Something tells me Scotty Bowman on steroids would have trouble.

Kruger doesn't have a backbone for an in your face hard checking, physical style team. Teams that scratch and claw win playoff series. Scratch that teams that fight for eachother and their crest win games that get them to the playoffs. So far as I can see Risto, McCabe, and Borgen are about the only people on this roster that undestand that or have that killer instinct.
I'll double down and make myself and outcast here and say Skinner would be the next person I'd mention on that list which ik is odd given that his contract has made him the laughing stock of the league.

If a coach cant maintain physical accountability then you need players who will demand it. We have neither.

 

[Member 308457]

Anyone remember the Eric Lindros trade?

The Eric Lindros trade[31]	Voided New York Rangers offer[24]
To Quebec Nordiques	To Philadelphia Flyers
Steve Duchesne Peter Forsberg Ron Hextall Kerry Huffman Mike Ricci Chris Simon Philadelphia's 1st round pick in 1993 Philadelphia's 1st round pick in 1994 $15 million	Eric Lindros

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Well this is the kind of return we need on Eichel. Good luck to Adams engineering the instant franchise turn-around.

 

[sabremike]

Anyone remember the Eric Lindros trade?

The Eric Lindros trade[31]	Voided New York Rangers offer[24]
To Quebec Nordiques	To Philadelphia Flyers
Steve Duchesne Peter Forsberg Ron Hextall Kerry Huffman Mike Ricci Chris Simon Philadelphia's 1st round pick in 1993 Philadelphia's 1st round pick in 1994 $15 million	Eric Lindros

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Well this is the kind of return we need on Eichel. Good luck to Adams engineering the instant franchise turn-around.

People never shut up about this trade because it's just about the only time a deal of it's type was won by the team that didn't get the one player (and if The Big E's brain hadn't been turned into oatmeal both teams probably would've won the trade).

 

[OkimLom]

Anyone remember the Eric Lindros trade?

The Eric Lindros trade[31]	Voided New York Rangers offer[24]
To Quebec Nordiques	To Philadelphia Flyers
Steve Duchesne Peter Forsberg Ron Hextall Kerry Huffman Mike Ricci Chris Simon Philadelphia's 1st round pick in 1993 Philadelphia's 1st round pick in 1994 $15 million	Eric Lindros

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Well this is the kind of return we need on Eichel. Good luck to Adams engineering the instant franchise turn-around.

you’re probably getting something closer to the Thornton or Mike Richards trades but with draft picks than the Lindros trade.

Other GMs would take Adams to the cleaners.

 

[The Blunder Years]

Hate the idea of trading Eichel, but I’m growing sick of this core. I’d like to see Eichel, Reinhart, and Risto gone for new pieces. Start fresh and build the team through a strong system and depth. That’s what seems to work lately anyways around the league.

 

[enthusiast]

I’ll say fire Krueger first, but also how many coaches need to get a crack at this core before it’s a them problem as well

 

[Member 308457]

People never shut up about this trade because it's just about the only time a deal of it's type was won by the team that didn't get the one player (and if The Big E's brain hadn't been turned into oatmeal both teams probably would've won the trade).

You're right the Lindros trade is one of the gold standards of all hockey trades. But there's so much more. The Lindros trade was actually marked by a series of trades and moves that happened afterwards. There were so many ways the Avalanche molded their team from '96-2001 off this one trade. Just the chain reaction off the two #1 draft picks was remarkable. The GM must have been a genius to engineer all that.

Eric Lindros trade - Wikipedia

 

[5 Minute Major]

you’re probably getting something closer to the Thornton or Mike Richards trades but with draft picks than the Lindros trade.

Other GMs would take Adams to the cleaners.

What you would need is a bidding war and, hopefully, GM's start bidding against each other.

 

[Fezzy126]

The first home game with Krueger as coach I sat in the stands with my co sths and we were overjoyed. The schemes and execution were near flawless. I could see the coach knew what he wanted and so did the players. So what has happened? Have the players decided they can and should do things their way because they are so good? Is Krueger just too nice to his team full of fragile egos who will just cower in the corner if K lays down the law? Does he want them to play an in your face game that is beneath their dignity as stars? Has Krueger changed what he knew would work because he cannot get acceptance on a full time basis? It is tough to get rid of a team especially right now. If there is to be a change it has to be for a coach who can get more out of this talented bunch of non performing contracts. Something tells me Scotty Bowman on steroids would have trouble.

The problem is we had four of the worst coaches in the league preceding him. Krueger and his staff definitely understand hockey coaching basics 101. They understand defensive positioning, breakout strategy, neutral zone postioning, and on top of that he has the communication skills to get his guys to buy in. These are all good things and certainly an improvement over his predecessors.

However, I personally think that the really brilliant coaching minds are excellent at teaching their players how to create space and deception in the offensive zone. Whether it's teaching the dmen when to activate, when to incorporate behind the net strategy, or when, where, and how the forwards cycle, quality coaches find ways to break down tight defenses. We're really overreliant on that damn low to high play, which is fine against those collapsed boxes, but our forwards rarely create enough chaos in the crease to make it work, and our dmen have forgotten how to get there shots through.

Look, you're probably right in that there's not many coaches that could do better right now, things are really stacked against this team at the moment; we had the extremely long offseason, then the 2-week break due to COVID, injuries to key players, roster holes on defense and in goal, and we're really young at the most vital positions. On top of that we've played most of our games against tough, veteran, well-coached teams in Washington and the NYI. Krueger is probably good enough to win when the odds aren't stacked against him, but sooner or later the dam is gonna break (again) if he doesn't find a way to unleash the offensive talent here.

 

[K8fool]

I expect to see more games like 6 1 Philly than what we've seen . A ten month layoff.. They start to create chances get destryoed by poor shooting and Hutton schizophrenia..

Not enough consistent data to have these discussions aside from a short season which they click when the click as a team.. Not individuals.. Hard to put a timetable after ten games and a cold restart..
They best figure a way to communicate, play quickly and tie up Hutton in the hotel in DC and leave him for the Russians there.

 

[tsujimoto74]

The problem is we had four of the worst coaches in the league preceding him. Krueger and his staff definitely understand hockey coaching basics 101. They understand defensive positioning, breakout strategy, neutral zone postioning, and on top of that he has the communication skills to get his guys to buy in. These are all good things and certainly an improvement over his predecessors.

However, I personally think that the really brilliant coaching minds are excellent at teaching their players how to create space and deception in the offensive zone. Whether it's teaching the dmen when to activate, when to incorporate behind the net strategy, or when, where, and how the forwards cycle, quality coaches find ways to break down tight defenses. We're really overreliant on that damn low to high play, which is fine against those collapsed boxes, but our forwards rarely create enough chaos in the crease to make it work, and our dmen have forgotten how to get there shots through.

Look, you're probably right in that there's not many coaches that could do better right now, things are really stacked against this team at the moment; we had the extremely long offseason, then the 2-week break due to COVID, injuries to key players, roster holes on defense and in goal, and we're really young at the most vital positions. On top of that we've played most of our games against tough, veteran, well-coached teams in Washington and the NYI. Krueger is probably good enough to win when the odds aren't stacked against him, but sooner or later the dam is gonna break (again) if he doesn't find a way to unleash the offensive talent here.

There's just no reason that a team with Eichel, Hall, Reinhart, Skinner, Staal, and Olofsson should be last in the entire league in even strength scoring and bottom 5 in goals/game. None.

 

[THUNDERBURST]

There's just no reason that a team with Eichel, Hall, Reinhart, Skinner, Staal, and Olofsson should be last in the entire league in even strength scoring and bottom 5 in goals/game. None.

Coach or serious cancer in the locker room

 

[sabremike]

The problem is we had four of the worst coaches in the league preceding him. Krueger and his staff definitely understand hockey coaching basics 101. They understand defensive positioning, breakout strategy, neutral zone postioning, and on top of that he has the communication skills to get his guys to buy in. These are all good things and certainly an improvement over his predecessors.

However, I personally think that the really brilliant coaching minds are excellent at teaching their players how to create space and deception in the offensive zone. Whether it's teaching the dmen when to activate, when to incorporate behind the net strategy, or when, where, and how the forwards cycle, quality coaches find ways to break down tight defenses. We're really overreliant on that damn low to high play, which is fine against those collapsed boxes, but our forwards rarely create enough chaos in the crease to make it work, and our dmen have forgotten how to get there shots through.

Look, you're probably right in that there's not many coaches that could do better right now, things are really stacked against this team at the moment; we had the extremely long offseason, then the 2-week break due to COVID, injuries to key players, roster holes on defense and in goal, and we're really young at the most vital positions. On top of that we've played most of our games against tough, veteran, well-coached teams in Washington and the NYI. Krueger is probably good enough to win when the odds aren't stacked against him, but sooner or later the dam is gonna break (again) if he doesn't find a way to unleash the offensive talent here.

He clearly either has no idea what the strengths and weaknesses of the guys on his roster are and how they should be used or he just doesn't give a shit and insists on trying to pound square pegs into round holes reality be damned. Everything else is piss and wind.

 

[beerme1]

My option isn't listed: blow it up now. Eichel is floating. He looks like he has completely checked out. Skinner contract is an albatross. Dahlin has regressed. Too much middling talent and not enough difference makers on the team. I would trade eichel and invest in Reinhart, Dahlin, and Cozens. Everyone else is out the door. If it's a rebuild, do it right. No shameful tanking. To build a winning culture, you have to instill a winning mindset. Tanking does the exact opposite of that. Plus, if Eichel really does go, then did tanking actually accomplish what we wanted?

I would not trade Eichel. I've said in the past and say it again, Reinhart is the guy that is leaving. Straight up Sammy for Sam Bennett?

Once it’s public Jack demands out we lose leverage. Does it make sense to be proactive? He’s clearly mentally gone already.

We could get an absolute haul for Jack, Sam and Hall.

Blowing it up would allow us to buyout Skinner and get rid of that absolutely disgusting contract with only a ~2.5m hit in the last couple years once we would be ready to compete. Okposo is gone in 2 years anyways.

Do it right this time. Let the new kids marinate extra long while signing character veterans in the twilight of their career so the stink of losing when we will finally be ready doesn’t do a repeat.

The only 3 people on my list that I can think of right now off limits would be Dahlin, Cozens and Quinn. Maybe Tage just because he’s such a wildcard and doesn’t have much value now anyways.

Give mitts the most favorable offensive deployments to pad his stats and offload him.

And take. at least. 2. goalies. every. single. draft.

Move Krueger upstairs. He is a great communicator that can still be an asset to us, just not in his current capacity.

Spend massive time and resources making Rochester a great place for development and leadership mentorship.

Would I do it? Not sure, but I think it’s all dependent on how we progress and how much lower overall organization morale can drop.

With a Dahlin extension looming and Skinners anchor, I don’t know if this core can currently be a winning formula.

And for gods sake, Terry needs to grow a pair and tell his wife that her pet project is over with.

Not for nothing dude, but this is one of the worst takes I've ever seen on here or anywhere else. Too many points to counter so I'll just say, worst post ever.

"The Buffalo Sabres are proud to introduce Matt Ellis as the next Head Coach."

And with that announcement, I'm out. Holy F'N Jesus.

 

[is the answer jesus]

I would not trade Eichel. I've said in the past and say it again, Reinhart is the guy that is leaving. Straight up Sammy for Sam Bennett?

That's absolutely putrid.

 

[beerme1]

That's absolutely putrid.

Think so also. But thinking of contract status, it may not be. Change of scenery and shake up is needed for both. WE NEED CHANGE.