When Will The USA Be The Country To Beat? (EDIT: Not just for WJHC)

[Lebowski]

The moment the black/Hispanic/you name it communities will start to get drawn towards hockey more consistently at the expense of Basket-Ball/Football/Baseball, to US is bound to take over. That could, however, take a lot more time than what some people claim in this thread.

Hockey will remain far less accessible to most families, especially the not so fortunate ones which a lot of the enumerated communities are part of, generally speaking, if only due to the cost that is exponentially bigger than for other major sports. A guy like PK Subban acting as a role model for some of these kids might help to accelerate the process a bit, but it will still take time. I'm thinking more along the lines of 40-50 years than 20 years.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Once it's affordable to lower and middle class families.

If you could start a development program in Texas, Alabama, and Florida. Football / Baseball / Soccer / Basketball are cheap vs Hockey.

Basically this. Because of the climate in the US, most states can't support outdoor rinks and therefore the game becomes very expensive. If hockey can become inexpensive enough that more people can afford to put their kid into it, then the US will expand more. I played soccer, basketball, and softball and none of those were equipment-heavy sports and none of them required more than a gym or a field.

It's awesome that kids from California, Texas, Arizona, Florida, etc. are starting to develop into legit stars. If the training and development availability weren't so exclusive, you'd probably see more American kids get into hockey.

But until that happens there's no competition.

 

[BigBen]

You Canadians are missing the point/getting very defensive. Canada should be the best, It is a way of life, It is a religion to you guys. Here in America its a distant 4th in the big 4 as much as It pains me to say it.

Not being cocky but facts are facts... Our best athletes are not being drawn to the NHL and it's a shame.

The best part about the olympics and these world juniors historically is that we aren't the favorites. Makes it that much better when we make some noise!


At least we are competitive and getting better each year, hopefully that results in a couple generational American talents.

And if you want to play in other sports (curling doesn't count) come see us, lets see who is comepetitive

Haha you guys also have 10 times more people than Canada, so there's nothing to really be cocky about.

Canada's weather doesn't really help in terms of developing players for non-winter sports. That's pretty evident as basketball is the only other sport where Canada is making a minor impact in, since it can be played inside during winter.

 

[X66]

Some countries just dominate certain sports, you see it at the olympics despite their populations compared to bigger countries.

Canada isn't going anywhere, any time soon.

 

[Urbanskog]

The moment the black/Hispanic/you name it communities will start to get drawn towards hockey more consistently at the expense of Basket-Ball/Football/Baseball, to US is bound to take over.

PK Subban could very well inspire some black kids into playing the sport but so could Anthony Duclair, a potential star playing in the biggest US market.

 

[bebl]

I was in Mexico this past winter and met a couple from Finland and he said their country was really happy to win the WJHC and to beat Canada along the way made it even better.

Cause Canada has usually dominated us in WJC.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

It will never surpass Canada. It could be equal but never the stand-alone, perrenial hockey power.

The economic and environmental requirements of the sport prevents it.

Winning an abbreviated tournament is nice but it's no barometer.

Canada is undisputed in my mind. They deserve it because the nation pours all their resources into maintaining it.

But Canadians know a hypothetical scenario where the US embraces hockey as the national sport ends with only one result.

 

[Canuckistani]

I heard this exact same discussion in 1996 when the USA won the World Cup.

"America has overtaken Canada. A new era of US domination of hockey is about to begin. Just look at the rise of hockey stateside, blah blah blah"

They haven't won a senior gold medal since, though they've come close.

The US has definately gotten better, and will continue to do so. But at the moment they don't have nearly the depth that Canada does, their player numbers notwithstanding.

One could argue that this will change in 20 years but the same was said in 1996 and that was 18 years ago. If anything, today's Team USA isn't nearly as good as it was in the mid 90s.

 

[tony d]

Can't see them ever being the outright favorites to win the tourney but I think they'll always be a team to watch in each tournament.

 

[canucks10]

Yes the USA has increased there hockey programs substantially but the things that have/will hinder the Americans is that Hockey for the vast majority of Americans is the number 5 sport (behind football, baseball, basketball & soccer) and until that changes they are not going to become the nation to beat.

Canada hockey is number 1 by a looong shot that's why its the powerhouse and will continue to be the powerhouse for years to come!

 

[jekoh]

If the best athletes in the United States grew up playing hockey the NHL would be made up entirely of US players. Everyone in the league would be 6'5, 230 pounds, and skate like the wind. It would be physically brutal sport to play in.

Not this BS again

US athletes playing other sports are nothing special, other than the fact there are many of them. There is nothing to suggest they would make better hockey players than the actual hockey players, as you seem to be assuming.

 

[Lebowski]

PK Subban could very well inspire some black kids into playing the sport but so could Anthony Duclair, a potential star playing in the biggest US market.

Well, sure. Calling Duclair even a "potential star" at this point is a stretch, though. I used Subban as an example for obvious reasons.

 

[jekoh]

The best athletes still go to football, basketball, and baseball.

A few years ago, my nephew was 3rd string defensive back on his freshman high football team. He never got to play.

He quit and made the varsity hockey team as a freshman. He ended up a top 6 forward on the AA State Champion Flint Phantoms. Never would have made the varsity football or basketball teams, though.

So what? Maybe he was simply better suited to hockey than to football. Conversely there's no evidence the guys who beat him out at the football would have made the hockey team. That says nothing about which sport has the best athletes.

 

[Lebowski]

So what? Maybe he was simply better suited to hockey than to football. Conversely there's no evidence the guys who beat him out at the football would have made the hockey team. That says nothing about which sport has the best athletes.

Not to mention, being big and tall is in no way a guarantee that you'll be successful at the NHL level. In fact, it seems to be detrimental to most players when it gets to a certain point.

Most of the best players/talents in the league are anywhere from 5'10'' to 6'2''. Hardly physical phenoms. Being big doesn't make you talented. LeBron James being good at basket-ball doesn't mean he would have been good at hockey as well. Size and athleticism isn't talent.

 

[TimeZone]

Oh but it's already happening, 2016 will be a great example for what's to come

Just like in 2007. Worry about becoming #2 before worrying about dethroning Canada.

Personally, I don't see the US ever being the team to beat. As of now Sweden, Finland are possibly ahead of them as well.

 

[AD1066]

Not this BS again

US athletes playing other sports are nothing special, other than the fact there are many of them. There is nothing to suggest they would make better hockey players than the actual hockey players, as you seem to be assuming.

You don't think there are any athletes in other sports who could've been good hockey players under different circumstances?

Only those who are already professional hockeys players are capable of doing so, and socioeconomic barriers to entry aren't holding back potential talent at all?

I don't mean this as an American vs. Canadian thing, either. I think it's fairly obvious that hockey has traditionally been played by a small subset of the world's population and there's certainly some undiscovered talent out there who will never have the opportunity to play the game.

 

[canucks10]

Oh but it's already happening, 2016 will be a great example for what's to come

So USA gets a 1st OA draft pick and suddenly it just erases all the years of Canadian dominance in the draft?
Sure Matthews looks like a good bet to go 1st overall as of now but a lot can change in 18 months you also have to keep in mind that he was only 2 days from being eligible for this coming draft so he's basically older then everyone he'll be competing against for the #1 spot.

 

[YMCMBYOLO]

You don't think there are any athletes in other sports who could've been good hockey players under different circumstances?

Only those who are already professional hockeys players are capable of doing so, and socioeconomic barriers to entry aren't holding back potential talent at all?

I don't mean this as an American vs. Canadian thing, either. I think it's fairly obvious that hockey has traditionally been played by a small subset of the world's population and there's certainly some undiscovered talent out there who will never have the opportunity to play the game.

You are right, but then why do people assume that the US would automatically take over the sport?

 

[AD1066]

You are right, but then why do people assume that the US would automatically take over the sport?

Well, technically it's China we need to watch out for...

My point is, at least to some extent, that it's a numbers game and the distribution of talent is at least somewhat random. It's not like all the potential hockey talent in the world just happens to be born in Canada, a few northern US states, and some Scandanavian countries. There's plenty of untapped potential all over the world.

I don't think Americans are better athletes or anything like that, but give two groups equal opportunities, access to rinks and frozen ponds, and comparable training programs and barring some outliers, the group that is 10x larger will probably produce more talent in the long-run.

But those are very idealistic conditions, and I don't think the US will ever have the same collective passion for the game as Canada, even if the absolute number of players we have enrolled is the same.

 

[CarlWinslow]

Hey guys. Remember when the USA was the dominant nation in the world at basketball?

They've really been surpassed since the last two NBA drafts!

 

[Habs76]

They're not even in the top 3.

1. Canada
2. Sweden
3. Russia

 

[ForumNamePending]

You don't think there are any athletes in other sports who could've been good hockey players under different circumstances?

Only those who are already professional hockeys players are capable of doing so, and socioeconomic barriers to entry aren't holding back potential talent at all?

I don't mean this as an American vs. Canadian thing, either. I think it's fairly obvious that hockey has traditionally been played by a small subset of the world's population and there's certainly some undiscovered talent out there who will never have the opportunity to play the game.

I think what people find ridiculous (FWIW so do I) is the idea that if the US cared more about hockey then NHL teams would suddenly start being filled with guys who look like NBA power forwards and NFL linebackers. You see the same argument made when it comes to soccer... As if somehow the US is the only country on the planet capable of producing such athletes. The US caring more about hockey would simply mean more players in the NHL would be American, but they would still have similar physiques, technical skills and athleticism of the players we currently see in the NHL.

 

[AD1066]

I think what people find ridiculous (FWIW so do I) is the idea that if the US cared more about hockey then NHL teams would suddenly start being filled with guys who look like NBA power forwards and NFL linebackers. You see the same argument made when it comes to soccer... As if somehow the US is the only country on the planet capable of producing such athletes. The US caring more about hockey would simply mean more players in the NHL would be American, but they would still have similar physiques, technical skills and athleticism of the players we currently see in the NHL.

Oh gotcha, yeah I'm with you there.

 

[nobuddy]

Hey guys. Remember when the USA was the dominant nation in the world at basketball?

They've really been surpassed since the last two NBA drafts!

Oooooh awful comparison

 

[jekoh]

You don't think there are any athletes in other sports who could've been good hockey players under different circumstances?

Of course there are.

But there is just no reason to assume that every single one of the current NHLers would be marginalized by current basketball players or gridiron players or that NHL players would be any taller if the talent pool was bigger.

Only those who are already professional hockeys players are capable of doing so, and socioeconomic barriers to entry aren't holding back potential talent at all?

They certainly are, but if it wasn't for socioeconomic barriers and climate, the average NHL players would still look pretty much like they do now.

I don't think Americans are better athletes or anything like that,

Some other posters seem to think that they are. If not "Americans", then at least "certain demographics" in the US.