When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

[13to40]

Edmonton was one game away from winning a Stanley Cup. It’s time to stop citing them as an example of a failed rebuild. If anything they’re proof that if you tank for a while and you get guys that aren’t good enough, you may as well keep tanking (even if it’s a new gm or two by the end of it)… as unglamorous and lack of style points as that may be. Had they said “ok that didn’t work” and Mid’d out to miss on getting Draisaitl and McDavid, they’d be materially worse off today. It also really shows how franchise gamebreaking talent can overcome a lot of executive level mistakes.

Not citing them as a failed rebuild. Look how long it took for them to get “just one game away” from winning the cup. McDavid is now what… 27-28 years old?

My point is it doesn’t happen overnight. A proper rebuild takes A LONG time.

You are right though that having 2 of the best players in the world helps hide a lot of the teams warts.

Yzerman is trying to build a team that doesn’t have any warts. It doesn’t have 2 generational players to lean on either. It’s going to be a line up filled with exceptional players and depth.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Raymond had 31g/73pts at 21 years old

ROR had a career high of 77, while being like 7 years older at the time.

Sure man, whatever you say

O'Reilly was 31st in league scoring and won the Selke Trophy, awarded annually to the National Hockey League forward who demonstrates the most skill in the defensive component of the game. The winner is selected by a poll of the Professional Hockey Writers' Association following the regular season.

While I don't doubt that Raymond (45th in league scoring, while sporting a 19 % shooting percentage) will surpass O'Reilly's high point watermark, it remains to be seen if he will surpass his overall impact.

 

[Fatass]

Not citing them as a failed rebuild. Look how long it took for them to get “just one game away” from winning the cup. McDavid is now what… 27-28 years old?

My point is it doesn’t happen overnight. A proper rebuild takes A LONG time.

You are right though that having 2 of the best players in the world helps hide a lot of the teams warts.

Yzerman is trying to build a team that doesn’t have any warts. It doesn’t have 2 generational players to lean on either. It’s going to be a line up filled with exceptional players and depth.

How many years has it been for Yzerman?

 

[Hisch13r]

Not citing them as a failed rebuild. Look how long it took for them to get “just one game away” from winning the cup. McDavid is now what… 27-28 years old?

My point is it doesn’t happen overnight. A proper rebuild takes A LONG time.

You are right though that having 2 of the best players in the world helps hide a lot of the teams warts.

Yzerman is trying to build a team that doesn’t have any warts. It doesn’t have 2 generational players to lean on either. It’s going to be a line up filled with exceptional players and depth.

Still really lacking in the exceptional player department.

 

[norrisnick]

Should half the league just fold since they don't have exceptional players.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Considering he projects as much better than Compher…. Yes they will be improved.

Hopefully he gets that first pro hockey point tonight, AHL can be a tough league for the kids!

 

[13to40]

Still really lacking in the exceptional player department.

The current roster yes big time. Some young promising players ripening in the minors

 

[13to40]

How many years has it been for Yzerman?

He’s been the GM since 2019
Edmonton was in the bottom of the league in 2006 or 2007 I believe (somebody can fact check for me)

Took them 10 years to get back into the playoffs and be relevant. Also helped they got some luck in drafting McDavid.


Rebuilds take time. Get over it, just because you’re used to finishing quickly doesn’t mean that’s how a franchise’s roster and prospect pool is rebuilt in the same timely fashion.

 

[WarriorofTime]

He’s been the GM since 2019
Edmonton was in the bottom of the league in 2006 or 2007 I believe (somebody can fact check for me)

Took them 10 years to get back into the playoffs and be relevant. Also helped they got some luck in drafting McDavid.


Rebuilds take time. Get over it, just because you’re used to finishing quickly doesn’t mean that’s how a franchise’s roster and prospect pool is rebuilt in the same timely fashion.

Right, Edmonton sucked and then they got McDavid and Draisaitl and now they're good. They wouldn't have got those guys if they weren't in a position of sucking enough to draft them to begin with. Yzerman has made it tougher to get the next McDavid and Draisaitl because he signed a bunch of Mid Vets so that Luke and Mo don't get "caved in" resulting in an aggressively mid team eight years into Detroit's rebuild.

 

[13to40]

Right, Edmonton sucked and then they got McDavid and Draisaitl and now they're good. They wouldn't have got those guys if they weren't in a position of sucking enough to draft them to begin with. Yzerman has made it tougher to get the next McDavid and Draisaitl because he signed a bunch of Mid Vets so that Luke and Mo don't get "caved in" resulting in an aggressively mid team eight years into Detroit's rebuild.

This team is a few years away from their top prospects graduating. That’s what the timetable is, since they didn’t have the opportunity to draft a McDavid who was ready right off the bat to make the NHL and will probably go down as one of the best players to ever play the game.

 

[Frobbo]

Prospects aren't automatically better just because SY drafted them the same way Notre Dame football recruits aren't better just because ND signed them. It is perceived that some DRW fans think they are.
The league has a lot of teams that have had highly rated pools that never panned out as making their teams better, especially when those pools strengths were depth over quality. Hoping for it doesn't make it so. Time will tell but I am not convinced it is going to work out to being a Cup contender.
I feel that they will become another Minnesota Wild. In fact, I think the Wild are in as good if not better place right now. No I am not a Wild fan either.

 

[ricky0034]

85 pages to come to the conclusion that it is trash

nonsense

we probably still got another 85 pages of denial to go easy

 

[Czechboy]

Right, Edmonton sucked and then they got McDavid and Draisaitl and now they're good. They wouldn't have got those guys if they weren't in a position of sucking enough to draft them to begin with. Yzerman has made it tougher to get the next McDavid and Draisaitl because he signed a bunch of Mid Vets so that Luke and Mo don't get "caved in" resulting in an aggressively mid team eight years into Detroit's rebuild.

As a huge OIler fan and one that followed during all this.. I'd say we are the prototype of exactly not what to do.

But, at one point, our prospect pool was McD, Drai, Nurse, Paajarvi, Hall, Yak, RNH, Ebs... all early first rounders and I'd say guys with higher ceillings (at the time) then Raymond, Seider, ASP, Edvinsson, Cossa and Augustine. And we sucked forever after that. And that was a damn good looking group of Top 5 picks.

For us it was shit management and development. Went from rushing prospects (Chia) to over ripening them (Holland) to losing them outright as our last 5 first rounders are not with us.lol

I'd use the Oilers as a cautionary tale of what not to do.

 

[Fatass]

He’s been the GM since 2019
Edmonton was in the bottom of the league in 2006 or 2007 I believe (somebody can fact check for me)

Took them 10 years to get back into the playoffs and be relevant. Also helped they got some luck in drafting McDavid.


Rebuilds take time. Get over it, just because you’re used to finishing quickly doesn’t mean that’s how a franchise’s roster and prospect pool is rebuilt in the same timely fashion.

In those 10 years the Oilers rebuilt twice. They had to move on from the Hall centred group because they got stuck in the lower middle. Imo the Wings are following the same path. They have a lot of good complimentary players but lack the elite guys. As those complimentary players come into their second and third contracts they eat too much of the cap for the team to legitimately compete. That’s where so many unsuccessful rebuilds, get stuck. Clubs are endlessly rebuilding because they never get the elite players.

 

[13to40]

In those 10 years the Oilers rebuilt twice. They had to move on from the Hall centred group because they got stuck in the lower middle. Imo the Wings are following the same path. They have a lot of good complimentary players but lack the elite guys. As those complimentary players come into their second and third contracts they eat too much of the cap for the team to legitimately compete. That’s where so many unsuccessful rebuilds, get stuck. Clubs are endlessly rebuilding because they never get the elite players.

I understand what you are saying, so don’t get me wrong…. I’ve watched the oilers most Saturday nights growing up because that was usually what was on hockey night in Canada.

My issue is that the prospects are still prospects so to say it’s a failed rebuild while they are still prospects is nonsense especially since a handful of them are trending more towards their ceiling projections vs floor.

 

[Fatass]

I understand what you are saying, so don’t get me wrong…. I’ve watched the oilers most Saturday nights growing up because that was usually what was on hockey night in Canada.

My issue is that the prospects are still prospects so to say it’s a failed rebuild while they are still prospects is nonsense especially since a handful of them are trending more towards their ceiling projections vs floor.

Who are these elite prospective players the Wings have that will move them into a competitive club?

 

[nbwingsfan]

I'll ask.. do you feel Raymond will be at a Panarin/Kucherov/Pasta/Matthews/McD/Drai/MacK/Stevie Y/Fedorov tier at some point in his Red Wing's career?

Who knows.

I also didn’t know you need a top 3-5 forward in the world to win the cup lol

It's a good propsect pool.... but we agree it's not the best one or top 3, right?

Very arguably top 3.

 

[Czechboy]

Who knows.

I also didn’t know you need a top 3-5 forward in the world to win the cup lol

My own theory, in a cap world, is that you need 2 out of 3 areas to be very strong. G, F and D. 2 have to be well above average. Eg. My Oil have above average forwards, middle of the road goalies and below average D and I don't recall a cup celebration.lol

 

[nbwingsfan]

Hopefully he gets that first pro hockey point tonight, AHL can be a tough league for the kids!

He’s 20 years old lol.

 

[Czechboy]

Very arguably top 3.

Just confirming that you are not including Raymond and Seider in that argument?

 

[nbwingsfan]

My own theory, in a cap world, is that you need 2 out of 3 areas to be very strong. G, F and D. 2 have to be well above average. Eg. My Oil have above average forwards, middle of the road goalies and below average D and I don't recall a cup celebration.lol

The wings have one tog the best goalie prospects in the world to go along with a top 3 23 and under D list.

The oilers also came 2 goals away from a Cup.

This idea you need a top 5 player in the world to win a Cup is simply proven wrong all the time

Just confirming that you are not including Raymond and Seider in that argument?

Yes.

 

[Czechboy]

This idea you need a top 5 player in the world to win a Cup is simply proven wrong all the time

Not my argument

 

[Czechboy]

The wings have one tog the best goalie prospects in the world to go along with a top 3 23 and under D list.

The oilers also came 2 goals away from a Cup.

This idea you need a top 5 player in the world to win a Cup is simply proven wrong all the time


Yes.

And hope you know both your future goalie stars are year away.

Eg. Hrabal just got drafted early and I think he will be an NHL star... In about 5 years.

Askarov in AHL
Walstedt in a 3 goalie rotation.
Wolf is in a split tandem at age 23. Won't be a starter till 24 most likely

Those guys are also some of the best goalie prospects in the world.

 

[raymond23]

2-3 now losers, suck on that

 

[BB88]

I’m still waiting to see how you can tell the future and that Raymond or any of the prospects won’t be stars? Raymond is pretty much exactly where Pasta was at the same age, arguably higher.

So you’ve decided to jump full on to fantasy land and if if if plan.

Maybe you should just sell Larkin, he’s 28y already and the way you are doing it you’ve wasted his entire prime in this rebuild and will need to look for another 1C….

Please direct me to the franchise players on the Vegas and STL rosters. I’ll wait.

You realize all of the Wings beat prospects are 21 and under right? You can say with 100% certainly none will be any good?

What makes you think Raymond can’t be a franchise level player?

Again I say cute if you think you are in any way build the same way as those teams.

You seriously have to even ask with how Eichel- Marchessault- Stone played?

Both Eichel& Marchessault played at Conn Smythe level and RoR won Selke& Conn Smythe during Blues run & Detroit isn’t build even close to the same as them