When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

[Indrid Cold]

I certainly hope so!

The never-ending question still stands. Is the defense that bad BECAUSE of Lalonde, or because of the players Yzerman has brought in?

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I watched Rangers Wings game and I know the Rangers are good, but I never felt the Wings were a threat to win the game. Are the Rangers this good or are the Wings just too meh? It's too early to tell but I'm leaning on the wings not being a serious threat. I don't think they are built to sustain serious threats moving forward. Their core is not enough to get them over the hump, let alone goal tending. Steve Yzerman needs to be criticized.

Wings are the definition of mid. Not terrible, but not a threat to make any noise.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

I mean at some point you need to play the young guys, Yzerman has drafted very well for the wings considering no #1 picks. Without a sure fire #1 it will take longer for the team to come together, his FA signings have been questionable, but he's done a good job at building a top farm system for the Wings, now it just needs to translate into the NHL, I'd say you can better judge his progress when more of his picks hit the NHL, but he did well with Seider and Raymond, Danielson looks like a stud and there is a lot of interesting players in the system. I'd say its too early to sat it failed, because you need patience with rebuilds, you can either try and force it like the Sens did or let it take the course naturally, I prefer the Yzerman route of taking his time and letting things happen instead of trying to force it.

 

[TKB]

The never-ending question still stands. Is the defense that bad BECAUSE of Lalonde, or because of the players Yzerman has brought in?

Speaking as someone who was mortified by opening night performance, the last two games have been significantly better. The Rangers abused the Wings at the face-off dot last night, but generally speaking if the Wings maintain the standard of play they brought last night, I have to think they make the playoffs.

To your question at hand, you can create a system that with marginal talent that will get beat by good players some times, but not have the the goat rodeo breakdowns this team has seen the last couple of years. Not sure if these breakdowns are simply poor communication, or trying to fit a square-peg in a round hole. Bet even if it is the latter, the Wings could be choosing to play a system that is not-optimal for the current line-up but is what they want the core to learn for the future. As rough as the d-zone has been the last year or two, if there is one thing I am comfortable with this team, it is the future of the blue line.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I watched Rangers Wings game and I know the Rangers are good, but I never felt the Wings were a threat to win the game. Are the Rangers this good or are the Wings just too meh? It's too early to tell but I'm leaning on the wings not being a serious threat. I don't think they are built to sustain serious threats moving forward. Their core is not enough to get them over the hump, let alone goal tending. Steve Yzerman needs to be criticized.

It's 1 game and you're judging a cup-or-bust roster vs. a roster that still has probably 50-60% of it's expected talent in the pipeline.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

So much cap spent on dreck on the wings. Copp, compher, holl, chiarot, kane, tarasenko. I think there’s a decent chance they’re a bottom 10 team

 

[JediOrderPizza]

The placeholders are def getting old to look at. Hoping Kasper gets a look soon.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

It's 1 game and you're judging a cup-or-bust roster vs. a roster that still has probably 50-60% of it's expected talent in the pipeline.

I think he is judging NYR against a franchise that has been rebuilding for 8 years..

 

[FMichael]

The never-ending question still stands. Is the defense that bad BECAUSE of Lalonde, or because of the players Yzerman has brought in?

It's likely a combination of both...HOWEVER most of us Wings fans have been critical of Lalonde since the start of last season...Too many slow starts where the team goes down by a goal early, miscues all over the ice, doesn't appear to have any strong/consistent forecheck, not very competent in our end of the ice where we spend waaaaay too much time trying to get the puck out and having to rely on the goalie to keep us in the game, errant passes, and generally overall sloppy play which has seen us having not one but two extended losing streaks which cost us in the standings and a playoff spot.

To me the roster is of 'NHL' caliber, but the coaching is not.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Yeah, it's still early to say on the draft picks. Seider and Raymond were good picks.
Without going off the board, they should probably have taken Guenther over Edvinsson in 2021.
Maybe Geekie and/or Benson recently.
No homeruns, but that would have been more luck than skill.

It's the FA's where Yzerman has been more questionable.

Seider was w out a doubt a home run pick.

Raymond very well could be the best pick of the draft, definitely the best out of the players they had available

As you said, too early to tell on the others

Yeah, it's still early to say on the draft picks. Seider and Raymond were good picks.
Without going off the board, they should probably have taken Guenther over Edvinsson in 2021.
Maybe Geekie and/or Benson recently.
No homeruns, but that would have been more luck than skill.

It's the FA's where Yzerman has been more questionable.

Seider was w out a doubt a home run pick.

Raymond very well could be the best pick of the draft, definitely the best out of the players they had available

As you said, too early to tell on the others

 

[Beau Knows]

Last season was a step in the right direction for them. I think making the playoffs within the next couple years is a reasonable ask. If that doesn't happen and his picks start looking underwhelming, then sure, sound the alarm. But otherwise as long as progress is being made, I think patience is the key.

This team as of now can't realistically compete for the Cup, even if they sell the future off and go all-in. So why not keep building for the future and try to build a team that can compete for the Cup in 5+ years?

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not just dog piling like the rest of these bitter, out of touch mouth breathers...but for sure, (as in Quote Me On This and feel free to save it and drag me in a couple of years) Kasper will be a top 6 center. Danielson at least a middle 6 center. MBN will be a top 6 wing. Mazur a bottom 6 sandpaper/ glue guy. That's 4 forwards for sure. At this point, Buchelnikov is tracking to have a shot at the show, Plante is promising based on his resume to date, and Lombardi is tracking well too. Those are the only other forwards worth really mentioning. As for D...You already listed ASP. Wallinder has been looking great from January thru now and I feel good about him being a #4 or #5 with his size and skating. Anton Johansson is doing very well in Sweden, making great strides every year since he was drafted. And Buium is still very promising in his own right, but needs to prove he can make the jump to pro hockey. Finally, your list didnt include Albert Johansson, he just made his debut in the league and did just fine for his first game. He could be a steadying partner for either Seider or Ed down the line. The wings pipeline is universally considered stacked for a reason. They just dont have a Bedard, Fantilli, Celebrini, etc.

Agree that the RW have a nice pipeline of prospects. With that said - even if your evaluations of their potential is accurate - my experience is that there is no such thing as "for sure" on prospects and half (to more than half) of them will not reach their potential. YMMV.

It's not the model I would follow, I answered a question is all. We don't know what we have yet.

I think that this is important, and often gets overlooked or ignored. Organizations have to try and build the best team they can within the confines of where they select and how successful they are with draft/develop. A team can't control lottery luck, and must adapt the best they can. And long term every team wants to draft and develop talent - but there is a certain degree of luck involved, and that's key.

The best example of this IMO is the Maple Leafs. They had the amazing fortune of winning the draft lottery in a year with a superstar available, and they also had 2 other 1st round DP's get to absolutely 100% of their potential. I'm sure the Leafs wish that they didn't have 2 of their top 3 players being wingers, but that's what happened. Treliving is trying to build around what he's got, and has to make sacrifices in other areas, because that's the card he's been dealt. Would he love to have a Makar/Hughes/prime Hedman on the team? I'm sure he would, but he doesn't, so he tries to adapt and cover for that weakness. Might he like to move Marner in a hockey trade for equivalent value? Maybe, but if that trade isn't available the TML must try and build what they can with MM rather than lose MM as a UFA because their window is now, and they need to maximize their chances of converting with the really rare luck of having that much top end talent on roster.

Walman isn't really a top 4. More of a 5-6 defender. If he hadn't got paired with Seider he wouldn't have even gotten the rep he has. He will be top 4 on really bad teams, but if you are a good team you don't want him long term in the top 4.

Even if that's true - I feel like it was a terrible move by SY. You move a 2nd round DP to get a bad contract (aka - Holl) off the roster. You don't move a 2nd to move a legit 3rd pair (at a minimum) NHL d-man on a reasonable contract. I would have expected that Walman would have been picked up on waiver at a minimum. To be fair though - this was just a potential "bad asset management" type of problem that most GMs (even good ones) tends to occasionally make, and not a franchise impacting deal.

Overall: Disclaimer, I hate the Red Wings (PTSD of their fans invading the United Center and the elite Wings teams just clowning the Hawks. Still remember Konstantinov scoring in 3OT to beat the Hawks). With that said - I think that Yzerman is doing the best he can with the most important aspects of a rebuild (drafting and developing). The questionable roster filler should be falling off the roster when the next wave is available and hopefully ready to contribute. If I were a Wings fan, I would have preferred to have a couple of their prospects up sooner, but in the long run that's a relatively small concern compared to having the right coach in place, and having the right "replacements" for some of the current roster filler (upgrade on 2 of Petry, Maatta, Holl, Gustafsson). SY has his work cut out for him, but he's done a good job considering the degree of difficulty with inheriting an empty pipeline, bad NHL contracts, and bad lottery luck. Looking forward to seeing what he does.

 

[WarriorofTime]

“He’s had 6 drafts” - warrior of time

Yes, at some point, you have to ask, aside from drafting Seider and Raymond with very high picks, who are presently Top 50-75ish $8 million players with room to grow, what other things has Yzerman done that can be classified as big wins as of now in 2024 with all the time he's had? The other 22/23 year olds with the excess 2019 and 2020 picks are fizzling into being low-impact depth players at best. Developing prospects from later years too early to fully judge but aren't clear homeruns at this time (maybe ASP). Trades/free agent signings that have been "OK". Finishing 12th, 12th, 9th in the East last three seasons which is fairly No-Man's Landish for three straight missed postseasons.

 

[norrisnick]

Yes, at some point, you have to ask, aside from drafting Seider and Raymond with very high picks, who are presently Top 50-75ish $8 million players with room to grow, what other things has Yzerman done that can be classified as big wins as of now in 2024 with all the time he's had? The other 22/23 year olds with the excess 2019 and 2020 picks are fizzling into being low-impact depth players at best. Developing prospects from later years too early to fully judge but aren't clear homeruns at this time (maybe ASP). Trades/free agent signings that have been "OK". Finishing 12th, 12th, 9th in the East last three seasons which is fairly No-Man's Landish for three straight missed postseasons.

He hasn't thrown away his 1sts for failed "win now" moves which undoubtedly the non-Wing fans on the internet would have preferred to see.

 

[LarKing]

I'm not going to say Yzerman has done a perfect job by any means. But reading this thread title always cracks me up considering he was bashed basically from his very first move drafting Seider. Even before his poor FA signings, Yzerman has been in quite a few fans' heads for a while.

 

[Chainshot]

I thought Kasper looked really good in pre-season action and honestly a bit surprised he didn't break camp with the big club. Did I just happen to catch his only good play or is it due to too many bodies?

 

[Hisch13r]

The never-ending question still stands. Is the defense that bad BECAUSE of Lalonde, or because of the players Yzerman has brought in?

I mean Lalonde might not be helping but I am also very confident Yzerman's built a god awful blue line.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Yes, at some point, you have to ask, aside from drafting Seider and Raymond with very high picks, who are presently Top 50-75ish $8 million players with room to grow, what other things has Yzerman done that can be classified as big wins as of now in 2024 with all the time he's had? The other 22/23 year olds with the excess 2019 and 2020 picks are fizzling into being low-impact depth players at best. Developing prospects from later years too early to fully judge but aren't clear homeruns at this time (maybe ASP). Trades/free agent signings that have been "OK". Finishing 12th, 12th, 9th in the East last three seasons which is fairly No-Man's Landish for three straight missed postseasons.

So just so we have this straight….

You want the Wings to have both tanked for low picks the last three years AND make the post season this year?

Make it make sense

To answer the rest of your question. Who the hell knows which of their players are $8-9m guys… theyre 21 and under lol

 

[nbwingsfan]

I thought Kasper looked really good in pre-season action and honestly a bit surprised he didn't break camp with the big club. Did I just happen to catch his only good play or is it due to too many bodies?

It’s due to Lalonde loving his vets.

I can’t wait for him to be fired

 

[WarriorofTime]

So just so we have this straight….

You want the Wings to have both tanked for low picks the last three years AND make the post season this year?

Make it make sense

To answer the rest of your question. Who the hell knows which of their players are $8-9m guys… theyre 21 and under lol

Not really sure what you’re confused about. This about Yzerman not me.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I mean Lalonde might not be helping but I am also very confident Yzerman's built a god awful blue line.

The D is brutal yes.

We’re also not exactly a haven for UFA signings right now so it’s short term problems until the prospects start maturing

Not really sure what you’re confused about. This about Yzerman not me.

You’ve stated they should be in the post season right now…

Yet now you’re saying they should have also been tanking for lower picks.

Can’t have both big dog.

 

[Kranix]

lucking into Kucherov and then leaving the org before the team wins a cup is a 'plan?'

 

[TKB]

Yes, at some point, you have to ask, aside from drafting Seider and Raymond with very high picks, who are presently Top 50-75ish $8 million players with room to grow, what other things has Yzerman done that can be classified as big wins as of now in 2024 with all the time he's had? The other 22/23 year olds with the excess 2019 and 2020 picks are fizzling into being low-impact depth players at best. Developing prospects from later years too early to fully judge but aren't clear homeruns at this time (maybe ASP). Trades/free agent signings that have been "OK". Finishing 12th, 12th, 9th in the East last three seasons which is fairly No-Man's Landish for three straight missed postseasons.

You have been given numerous realistic prospect projections and Red Wing organization philosophies by numerous posters familiar with the team.

You're just being obtuse.

If SFY does pull this off I am actually concerned about your well being, you seem a little obsessed with him.

 

[abj]

To give more playing time to the drafted Michael Brandsegg-Nygård. Otherwise Larkin traded for Slafkovsky it would probably usefully.

 

[Our Lady Peace]

I thought Kasper looked really good in pre-season action and honestly a bit surprised he didn't break camp with the big club. Did I just happen to catch his only good play or is it due to too many bodies?

He was one of, if not the most dangerous and consistent 200 foot Red Wing all throughout preseason no matter who was on his line. Casualty of too many vets

I'm sure a Red Wing forward will go down with injury, and he is almost assuredly the first to get the call up. Alternatively, if the Wings are still sinking after some time, he's probably going to last 30ish games in the AHL and force someone to get waived. Already after two games he's looking far too dangerous for AHL play. Can't wait to see what he does when he's let loose in the NHL