When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

[nbwingsfan]

I would do exactly everything Yzerman has done, the tenure has obviously gone perfectly.

I’m still waiting to hear…

Judging by your response, you have no logical answer.

Which is par for the course in this thread

Ridiculous comments galore, such as acting like mid 1st round picks should already be difference makers at 18, 19 and 20 years old

Just curious, how many more seasons of missing the playoffs before you feel it’s fair to criticize Yzerman?

When/if the prospects he’s accumulated stall or don’t become good players.

So 2 more seasons

 

[FMichael]

Most of the criticism of Yzerman is pretty bad faith, and that's coming from a Sens fan who has no love for the Wings.

He took over a team with arguably the worst future of any team in the league. A couple decades of contending and god awful drafting in the 2010s left the Wings with no young stars in the organization beyond Larkin.

It can't be overstated that when Yzerman took over the best young players on the roster were Larkin, Hronek, Bertuzzi and Mantha, and the Wings had just spent their previous 4 1st round picks on Zadina, Veleno, Rasmussen, Cholowski and Svechnikov, with their day 2 drafting being no better.

It shouldn't shock anyone that the Wings haven't made the playoffs yet during his tenure. Would have taken any GM at least half a decade to right the ship.

Where I think he messed up is rushing the rebuild a bit by adding talent in UFA too early. Wings need a few more young stars but their team ended up winning too many games, resulting in their last 3 1sts ending up being 8th (Kasper), 9th (Danielson) and 15th (Brandsegg-Nygard), where it's difficult to find elite talent. I'm also not a huge fan of the Kasper/Danielson picks for them. Both will end up good NHLers, but thought it would have been smarter for them to take swings at guys with higher upside, given their terrible lottery luck (which isn't Yzerman's fault) didn't gift them any elite talent.

Not sure where the Wings go from here. Have the makings of a consistent playoff team once all the young players develop, but it's hard to imagine them taking the next step into contending status.

The draft lottery hasn't been kind to Detroit...Hard to draft that generational talent when you drop back to 4th or more.

Just curious, how many more seasons of missing the playoffs before you feel it’s fair to criticize Yzerman?

My #1 criticism of Yzerman is his choice in head coach...At least he's in his final year under contract.

 

[Oddbob]

Shanny took over the Leafs in 2014, 2 months BEFORE Nylander was drafted so he did not have any of Matthews Marner or Nylander when he got here He had Rielly going into his 2nd season I think, might have even been his 1st, in fact I think it was his 1st because I think Rielly 2nd season was Babcock's 1st.

Point is this when Shanny got here there was no Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Hyman none of them, there was a VERY young, VERY green Rielly and that's it.

Say what you want about their playoff struggles those are what they are, But just a couple years later they were in the playoffs and have been ever sense.

Reality is Shanny started with Just as little as Yzerman did, in fact he started with less because there was no Dylan Larkin to build around in Toronto like there was in Detroit.

So why is it Shanny was able to start with less because the fact is he did.

Yet he was able to do in less than 3 years what Yzerman hasn't been able to do in 5, soon to be 6?

Shanny is not the GM and what on earth have the Leafs done with their talent? You made the 2nd round 1 time with that core. That is much worse than missing playoffs with a rebuilding team.

 

[FMichael]

Lalonde will be the first coach canned

I certainly hope so!

 

[FMichael]

He’s had six drafts, six free agent periods, five trade deadlines.

That would make sense if you had a crystal ball and knew who would become the best talent to draft, or which players to trade for.

 

[Oddbob]

Just curious, how many more seasons of missing the playoffs before you feel it’s fair to criticize Yzerman?

It would be fair to criticize IF any of the people running him down gave actual legit things Steve could have done different. We drafted 4th overall as the highest pick during Steve's tenure in Detroit. All other rebuilding teams that are doing well had at least 1 Top 3 pick and several had numerous Top 3 picks. Most Top UFAs aren't signing with a bottom team, so what moves should he have made to have us be better.

Every single GM has bad signings like Copp and Holl so running down just Steve for that is a joke. You can't win all your UFA signings.

Do I think he could have done better, maybe, but with what he started with, which was Larkin and nothing else, he has done quite well in drafting Seider and Raymond at 6th and 4th overall. Turning what he had to start into a playoff team was going to take long no matter who took over. He also has stated his goal isn't to become a playoff team that makes it one year and maybe misses the next year, but once they make it, to keep making it and be competitive.

The reason we are patient is because a good chunk of his drafted players haven't debuted yet, which can drastically change our outcome if 1-4 or so hit.

 

[FMichael]

It would be fair to criticize IF any of the people running him down gave actual legit things Steve could have done different. We drafted 4th overall as the highest pick during Steve's tenure in Detroit. All other rebuilding teams that are doing well had at least 1 Top 3 pick and several had numerous Top 3 picks. Most Top UFAs aren't signing with a bottom team, so what moves should he have made to have us be better.

Every single GM has bad signings like Copp and Holl so running down just Steve for that is a joke. You can't win all your UFA signings.

Do I think he could have done better, maybe, but with what he started with, which was Larkin and nothing else, he has done quite well in drafting Seider and Raymond at 6th and 4th overall. Turning what he had to start into a playoff team was going to take long no matter who took over. He also has stated his goal isn't to become a playoff team that makes it one year and maybe misses the next year, but once they make it, to keep making it and be competitive.

The reason we are patient is because a good chunk of his drafted players haven't debuted yet, which can drastically change our outcome if 1-4 or so hit.

What would interest me would be those who are critical of Yzerman to point out which players he should have drafted, and which players he should have traded for, and which players he should have signed via UFA...

But we Red Wing fans know that won't happen.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

It would be fair to criticize IF any of the people running him down gave actual legit things Steve could have done different. We drafted 4th overall as the highest pick during Steve's tenure in Detroit. All other rebuilding teams that are doing well had at least 1 Top 3 pick and several had numerous Top 3 picks. Most Top UFAs aren't signing with a bottom team, so what moves should he have made to have us be better.

Every single GM has bad signings like Copp and Holl so running down just Steve for that is a joke. You can't win all your UFA signings.

Do I think he could have done better, maybe, but with what he started with, which was Larkin and nothing else, he has done quite well in drafting Seider and Raymond at 6th and 4th overall. Turning what he had to start into a playoff team was going to take long no matter who took over. He also has stated his goal isn't to become a playoff team that makes it one year and maybe misses the next year, but once they make it, to keep making it and be competitive.

The reason we are patient is because a good chunk of his drafted players haven't debuted yet, which can drastically change our outcome if 1-4 or so hit.

I understand that, which is why I asked how many more seasons before it’s fair. Do you have an answer?

Not really interested in rehashing his resume to date as that’s been beaten to death ITT.

 

[Oddbob]

I understand that, which is why I asked how many more seasons before it’s fair. Do you have an answer?

Not really interested in rehashing his resume to date as that’s been beaten to death ITT.

I think another 2 seasons, though to be fair we missed last year with the same pts as WSH and if Phi hadn't pulled their goalie when they were already eliminated we get in. People are acting like we were 25 pts out last season or something. My only real complaint of Steve is I think Kasper and maybe one other prospect should be on our team instead of so many vets. I don't think we should be the sixth-seventh oldest team in the league. That said Steve's contracts to the vets are all shorter term deals.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I’m still waiting to hear…

Judging by your response, you have no logical answer.

Which is par for the course in this thread

Ridiculous comments galore, such as acting like mid 1st round picks should already be difference makers at 18, 19 and 20 years old

Sorry who said that? Wasn’t me.

 

[Pavels Dog]

A lot of people who posted after Game 1 who haven't been seen after Game 2. Will they return if Wings lose Game 3? Yes, yes they will. Will they ghost if Wings win Game 4? Indeed, they will.

As I was saying.

Lol this board is predictable.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

if Phi hadn't pulled their goalie when they were already eliminated we get in.

That’s not true, DET needed a regulation or OT win from Philly in order for DET to make the playoffs. So if they don’t pull the goalie they still had to win the game in OT for Detroit to advance.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Just curious, how many more seasons of missing the playoffs before you feel it’s fair to criticize Yzerman?

He posted, on page 78 of a multi-year thread dedicated to criticizing Yzerman.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

He posted, on page 78 of a multi-year thread dedicated to criticizing Yzerman.

It’s not an attack in any way, just genuinely curious.. I actually tend to agree with the DRW posters who say it’s unrealistic for any GM to have turned things around given the state of the team in 2019. There’s a good chance that in a weaker division it would’ve happened.

Maybe when no one can discern a genuine inquiry from trolling, a thread has run its course.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Walman looks great on the Sharks. Surprised it only cost San Jose a 2nd for a middle aged top 4 guy on a reasonable deal

 

[Oddbob]

That’s not true, DET needed a regulation or OT win from Philly in order for DET to make the playoffs. So if they don’t pull the goalie they still had to win the game in OT for Detroit to advance.

Wrong. Philly pulled the goalie and WSH scored on the EN giving WSH 2 pts. If Philly kept their goalie in, they could have won the game in the SO or OT. Philly also could have scored in the final 3 minutes.

Walman looks great on the Sharks. Surprised it only cost San Jose a 2nd for a middle aged top 4 guy on a reasonable deal

Walman isn't really a top 4. More of a 5-6 defender. If he hadn't got paired with Seider he wouldn't have even gotten the rep he has. He will be top 4 on really bad teams, but if you are a good team you don't want him long term in the top 4.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Wrong. Philly pulled the goalie and WSH scored on the EN giving WSH 2 pts. If Philly kept their goalie in, they could have won the game in the SO or OT. Philly also could have scored in the final 3 minutes.

Obviously Philly could have won in OT, or the shootout, or the last minutes of regulation. My point stands that it’s incorrect to say that DRW would have made the playoffs but for the fact that Philly pulled their goalie.

 

[Pavels Dog]

It’s not an attack in any way, just genuinely curious.. I actually tend to agree with the DRW posters who say it’s unrealistic for any GM to have turned things around given the state of the team in 2019. There’s a good chance that in a weaker division it would’ve happened.

Maybe when no one can discern a genuine inquiry from trolling, a thread has run its course.

You also genuinely didn't adress that poster's argument. It's absolutely fair to criticize Yzerman. It's also absolutely fair to say his draft picks from ~2022-2024 should not reasonably be expected to be major NHL contributors at this point. It's fair to say in order to greatly improve Detroit's short-term outlook there would have needed to be sacrifices from the long-term outlook.

 

[LevelingSolo]

07-08 Hawks missed playoffs by 3 pts, start of next year Savard was fired a few games into season and team made playoffs for first time since 01-02 season and advanced to WCF

The coach who took over for Savard is sitting at home waiting for phone call

I can see that happening especially with the Kane connection

 

[Nogatco Rd]

You also genuinely didn't adress that poster's argument. It's absolutely fair to criticize Yzerman. It's also absolutely fair to say his draft picks from ~2022-2024 should not reasonably be expected to be major NHL contributors at this point. It's fair to say in order to greatly improve Detroit's short-term outlook there would have needed to be sacrifices from the long-term outlook.

I didn’t address his argument because I don’t disagree with him.