When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

[WarriorofTime]

Gamebreakers aren't our problem. You guys can keep sleeping on Raymond but when he puts up 90+ points

He's projected at about 74 for reference.

 

[TKB]

I don't know where they're going to get their gamebreakers from. When you get to the playoffs you need a MacKinnon, or Barkov, or Eichel even. People bring up the prospects that they have but the problem is that every single team in the NHL has players already on the roster or prospects of that level, even the bottom feeder teams do.

The potential "game breaker" and I do mean potential would be Cossa.

I think we will ultimately end up with a top shelf d-core, despite what the current goat rodeo looks like.

The question then becomes can we put together a good enough forward group that by definition won't be top heavy.

Can't believe I am wading back into this thread, but the reason a lot of Wings fans are good with SFY is that he is calculated, patient, non-emotional, and despite what anyone says did a great job in Tampa building around Headman and Stamkos.

The only criticisms that I buy about the Yzerplan are 1) deciding not to tank through the Bedard sweepstakes, (which I am okay with but won't derail this exchange by elaborating) and 2) I have not been sold on Lalonde. While it takes 15 games or so to see what you have in a given year, the fact that the same d-zone shit show that plagued this team last year (even when it was winning) showing up so glaringly on opening night is a huge red flag.

 

[BlueSeal]

I'm a Blues fan in California coming in peace and have no animosity against the Wings.

I don't get what exactly Steve's plan is. The team hasn't qualified for the playoffs since 2016 and it's been wash-rinse-repeat with the roster since then with give or take the same results. The way he's doing it could very well work, but it's going to take a lot of time and a lot more luck, so I can see a fan's perception on the team being very much YMMV but it's still the same result and that train so far is continuing in the same direction into the horizon.

Yet, the team is still young enough to do some serious damage if they gel and roll, so it's not all darkness and gloom. This could be the year they at least make the playoffs. And the contracts give Steve ultimate flexibility, so for those who don't like him, I'd say that's a huge plus especially in this day and age.

At the very least, there's just more work to do.

 

[SirKillalot]

it's been wash-rinse-repeat with the roster since then with give or take the same results.

I'm not sure what you mean by that.
But no. Yes in a sense that there is spot plugs signed into the roster until the youth come of age to be ready to contribute, no in the sense is the team is on a path, improving every year the last four seasons, and its on its way.

 

[StreetHawk]

I'm not sure what you mean by that.
But no. Yes in a sense that there is spot plugs signed into the roster until the youth come of age to be ready to contribute, no in the sense is the team is on a path, improving every year the last four seasons, and its on its way.

Every team in a rebuild needs to sign vets to plug into the roster untiil the kids are ready. That is understandable.

Yzerman joined for the 2019 draft. For their opening day roster, only Seider, Raymond, and Edvinsson made it out of rd 1, with Johannsen as well from rd 2.

Question is how close are those other kids from rounds 2-3, if at all? Because you can't just rely soley on first rounders coming out of a rebuild.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Doesn’t that add up to a decade of losing? In Tampa Yzermsn had true superstars to build around. Yes, he wasn’t there when the club won, but he did have great players. Currently the Wings don’t have that level of player. It’s highly unlikely drafting 7-15 is going to get a guy of that level either, which is probably where they will be drafting. IMO the Wings are where the Oilers were, and other rebuilding clubs, back when they had a young Hall, Eberle, Nuge. They were missing the superstar level guys. They had to trade away much of that club and sink to the bottom and rebuild again.

Every single of those players were on the team when they drafted both McDavid and Draisaitl… what are you talking about

maybe by 1 year. could have did 1 more yr of tanking instead of signing copp n co. that said they got a great player in kasper that draft.

ultimately they did continue to build through the draft IMO, that is why the prospect pool is brimming with talent. they signed the fillers to give them time to develope.

It’s hilarious how Copp is both terrible (he is) and yet somehow helped the Wings win a bunch of games

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Good thing that's not the core I guess?

Who else has proven good enough to be in the RW core at this point? I like the pipeline that SY has built, but that's only potential until proven otherwise.

I ask because few rookies come in and immediately contribute.

 

[SirKillalot]

Every team in a rebuild needs to sign vets to plug into the roster untiil the kids are ready. That is understandable.

Yzerman joined for the 2019 draft. For their opening day roster, only Seider, Raymond, and Edvinsson made it out of rd 1, with Johannsen as well from rd 2.

Question is how close are those other kids from rounds 2-3, if at all? Because you can't just rely soley on first rounders coming out of a rebuild.

Well if we go by what's been drafted since 2019 (taking into account Veleno and Berggren is from 2018) and players through that time either on the team or with a chance getting there:

2019: Moritz Seider (1st, on the team, 1st D-man) Albert Johansson (2nd round, on the team getting looks now, bottom four d-man), Elmer Soderblom (6th round, got matches in 2022-23 season, potential potato up and down lineup).

2020: Lucas Raymond (1st, on the team, top line winger), William Wallinder (2nd round, possible addition bottom four d-man, now in AHL).

2021: Simon Edvinsson (1st, on the team), Sebastian Cossa (1st, projected starting goalie, in AHL), Shai Buium (2nd, potential bottom four d-man), Carter Mazur (3rd round, possible addition middle six winger), Redmond Savage (4th round, possible 3rd/4th line centerman, now in University).

2022: Marco Kasper (1st, middle six center/winger, potential top six upside, close to team, in AHL now), Dylan James (2nd round, potential middle six forward, in University right now), Dmitri Buchelnikov (2nd round, potential top six winger, in KHL now point per game), Amadeus Lombardi (4th round, potential middle six forward, currently AHL).

2023: Nate Danielson (1st, top six center potential, middle six center projected, in AHL now), Axel Sandin-Pellikka (2nd round, Top four PP D-man projected, potential top pair, in SHL contender now), Trey Augustine (2nd round, projected starting goalie, in University now), Brady Cleveland (2nd round, potential bottom four d-man, in University now), Jesse Kiiskinen (3rd round by NSH, potential middle six winger, now in Liiga almost point per game).

2024: Michael Brandsegg-Nygård (1st, projected middle six winger, top six potential, in SHL contender now), Max Plante (2nd round, projected middle six forward, now in University), Ondrej Becher (3rd round, potential middle six winger, now in WHL).

Other potentials:
Liam Dower-Nilsson (5h round, 2021), Noah Dower-Nilsson (3rd round, 2023), Antti Tuomisto (2nd round, 2019, currently in AHL).

 

[StreetHawk]

Everyone from 2022 - 2024 is still wait and see. Only 20 right now so plenty of time. It’s the ones from 2019-2021 that have ahl experience that those who follow the griffins can provide insight on whether they are tracking to be nhlers or should at least be given an opportunity in another year or so.

 

[Dotter]

Translation - "GM says give me unlimited time, everything is right on track"

Or set this thing called realistic expectations. Your team is about to find out first hand. Blackhawks are bad. bad. What 1-9-1 in their last 10 regular season games? And your team was gifted a generational talent.

If Yzerman was gifted a Bedard, imagine how much better they could be. Instead he has to find his stars after the top 3-10. And still walked away picking some of the best players of the entire draft (Seider and Raymond). Those two scores alone put Yzerman over the top as best top 5 GM in the NHL. Kasper and Cossa are looking pretty damn good, the next wave. There's a few late picks that look pretty damn good as well. But he's over ripening them, which is a more proven strategy for development.

Next, I encourage you to see the year-to-year uptick. Each season is incrementally getting better. So they are trending in the right direction, all this without a top 3 pick in the draft!

So yes, Yzerman has earned himself some extra time. Progress is trending up at a rapid pace. Look at your team, for example, they are trending all over the place with no real progress. I would worry about your own GM and how subpar he's been since 2021.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Oh cool so we're bringing this thread back after a single loss

 

[WarriorofTime]

Or set this thing called realistic expectations. Your team is about to find out first hand. Blackhawks are bad. bad. What 1-9-1 in their last 10 regular season games? And your team was gifted a generational talent.

Not a Blackhawks thread, stay on topic

 

[Dotter]

Not a Blackhawks thread, stay on topic

No, lets compare! That's exactly the response I'd expect after reviewing Blackhawks record since their GM joined Chicago in 2021. They are trending all over the place and only have Bedard to show for it. If you want to talk about failure.... look no further than the windy city.

Yzerman has Detroit trending up at a steady pace while getting robbed out of 1st overall picks. He still lands some of the best players in their respective draft. That's elite GMing right there.

 

[WarriorofTime]

No, let’s compare! That's exactly the response I'd expect after reviewing Blackhawks record since their GM joined Chicago in 2021. They are trending all over the place and only have Bedard to show for it. If you want to talk about failure.... look no further than the windy city.

Start a new thread if you want to discuss.

 

[BlueSeal]

No, lets compare! That's exactly the response I'd expect after reviewing Blackhawks record since their GM joined Chicago in 2021. They are trending all over the place and only have Bedard to show for it. If you want to talk about failure.... look no further than the windy city.

Yzerman has Detroit trending up at a steady pace while getting robbed out of 1st overall picks. He still lands some of the best players in their respective draft. That's elite GMing right there.

And both outcomes have been the same: neither teams made the playoffs.

It's only failure if you stop building and both teams are in the midst of that.

 

[thestonedkoala]

They should have traded Larkin to help with the rebuild

 

[Reality Check]

Oh cool so we're bringing this thread back after a single loss

Yzerman still living rent free in the heads of dorks.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Oh cool so we're bringing this thread back after a single loss

yeesh that's going to mean a hell of a lot of thread bumps this year

 

[Senor Catface]

Well Oilers have been lucky 4 times drafting 1st overalls and drafted the 2 best players in the world plus Bouchard, Hopkins etc. They havent won anything after a decade and still have weaknesses. As i said, you need more than good drafting to win a cup. You need good trades, good developement program, good coaches and assistants. Does Detroit have all of that after 5 years of Yzerman? I dont think they have.

jackjohnson not talking about the Oilers in every topic challenge

 

[noncents]

when do 'reasonable' wings fans expect to make the playoffs?

 

[Fatass]

Every single of those players were on the team when they drafted both McDavid and Draisaitl… what are you talking about


It’s hilarious how Copp is both terrible (he is) and yet somehow helped the Wings win a bunch of games

So Yzerman needs to draft a McDavid and a Drisatle or the club is destined to be bad? Yup. I agree.

 

[nbwingsfan]

So Yzerman needs to draft a McDavid and a Drisatle or the club is destined to be bad? Yup. I agree.

That’s some weird mental gymnastics you’re trying to pull after making a blatantly false statement

when do 'reasonable' wings fans expect to make the playoffs?

Next season.

If none of Kaspar, Edvinsson, Danielson, Mazur, Cossa arent making a meaningful contribution then it’ll be really concerning.

They’ll be a bubble team this year most likely, which is pretty meaningless in the long term since there’s like 4 players who will/should still be on the team in a year or two

 

[Fatass]

That’s some weird mental gymnastics you’re trying to pull after making a blatantly false statement


Next season.

If none of Kaspar, Edvinsson, Danielson, Mazur, Cossa arent making a meaningful contribution then it’ll be really concerning.

They’ll be a bubble team this year most likely, which is pretty meaningless in the long term since there’s like 4 players who will/should still be on the team in a year or two

Don’t exactly know how Yzerman will draft (or get) the elite talent the Wings need to be a good club when picking 7-15. Maybe his team just sits in that middle?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

when do 'reasonable' wings fans expect to make the playoffs?

Yes playoffs are the next big step but people tend to ignore that the Wings have improved every single season under Yzerman. So a lot of wings fans are trying to patient. Or at least contain their impatience.

This season may be the first one they don't have significant improvement, but my patience will have officially worn thin if they don't make the playoffs next season.

It's not like I love this as a fan but the Wings have not had a 1st overall pick since Joe Murphy in 1986, a 2nd overall since Marcel Dione in 1971, and a 3rd overall since Keith Primeau in 1990. It's scary to think what this team would look like if they hadn't gotten Larkin at 15th, Seider at 6th and Raymond at 4th.

There's a healthy amount of criticism of Yzerman in the Wings forum, but at the same time I think people cut him slack because they know where the team was at, and the major alternative path people suggest is "keep tanking until you get a generational talent" which isn't very realistic.

 

[dirtydanglez]

lol let him cook till end of december