When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

[Frank Drebin]

Man if you spent time reading the rest of the post you may have actually gotten to the point.

Instead of clarifying you simply say re read what I clearly don't understand.

Moving on.

 

[bigtim1988]

Yzerplan won't fail. this team will be in the playoffs next year, and the they'll start their resurgence.

After seeing DRW in the playoffs for 25 years straight or w/e, I'm OK with not seeing them in the playoff for at least 1 more year

 

[Frank Drebin]

Bottom line is that it would be an instantly fireable offense to not take BPA at your turn at the podium because you think you could nab them with a later pick. Maybe Florida was thinking the exact same thing when they grabbed Rocco Grimaldi at 33 and then were disappointed that Kucherov was gone at 59

 

[Bank Shot]

I have nothing personal against Wings fans or Yzerman.

I think just goes to show how much luck has to do with the perception of competence or excellence. Holland was once the class of the league with his 1995-2010 ish red wings. All on the back of inheriting Steve Yzerman and drafting franchise cornerstones with a third round pick (Lidstrom) , a 7th round pick (Zetterberg) and a 6th round pick (Datsyuk)

Yzerman was considered a hockey genius for building the foundation for the tampa bay dynasty.

But he himself inherited Stamkos and Hedman, and drafted his own franchise cornerstones in the 2nd round (Kucherov) third round (Point). I don't care what anyone says, when you pick busts before franchise players, you simply got lucky. Yes you deserve credit for drafting those players and recognizing their potential, but if they really knew how good these players would have been they would have been their first picks in the draft.

GM's shouldn't get much credit for guys drafted in the second/third rounds or later.

 

[Frank Drebin]

GM's shouldn't get much credit for guys drafted in the second/third rounds or later.

They can take credit for taking a risk, but if they truly recognized elite talent in those players they would have used their first selections to grab them. Thats why a shotgun approach in the later rounds with more picks is best.

 

[Ezekial]

If they're a top pick/prospect, it was a no brainer pick they couldn't pass up.
If it's a player that develops into a great player the onus was on the player and them alone achieved it.
It's no win.

So far, in Detroit, his first three 1st round picks are seeming like hits. Seider, Raymond, and Edvinsson. Not only just hits, but impact players.
Then you have hits next 4 picks
Cossa - after being hailed as the wrong guy and not nearly as good as Wallstedt, he's making quite the impression this season.
Kasper - show start to this season coming off the broken knee, but he turned it up in 2024 and had a great season in the SHL in his d+1
Danielson and ASP are having fine D+1s, nothing indicative of busting.

So, go ahead and complain that he picked a future HoF cornerstone to a multiple SC winning franchise at 58 after picking a guy at 27 who's played 708 nhl games.

 

[Bank Shot]

They can take credit for taking a risk, but if they truly recognized elite talent in those players they would have used their first selections to grab them. Thats why a shotgun approach in the later rounds with more picks is best.

There is a decent chance a GM never even saw a 2nd or 3rd rounder play in his draft year.

Scouts are getting the viewings.

You can credit a GM for overall scouting philosophy, or hiring the right scouts, but they generally have no direct role in finding gems later in the draft.

 

[Frank Drebin]

There is a decent chance a GM never even saw a 2nd or 3rd rounder play in his draft year.

Scouts are getting the viewings.

You can credit a GM for overall scouting philosophy, or hiring the right scouts, but they generally have no direct role in finding gems later in the draft.

Fair point.

I guess your can give the gm credit for hiring the right people and having the right philosophy. But it still takes a lot of luck to find 2 franchise cornerstones outside of the first round.

It's not something that you could guarantee any gm could do again.

 

[FMichael]

Go look at their points total the past 5 years.

Funny how little things called 'facts' get in the way of peoples opinions...

 

[FMichael]

Yzerplan won't fail. this team will be in the playoffs next year, and the they'll start their resurgence.

After seeing DRW in the playoffs for 25 years straight or w/e, I'm OK with not seeing them in the playoff for at least 1 more year

We will see...There's likely some roster changes coming up this summer...If Kane signs elsewhere - I'm not so confident we have the talent/depth to make up for his offensive ability and that may very well cost us a handful, or more games.

I'm still not a fan of Lalonde; too many nights where the team looked lost, or uninterested, and Lalonde's coaching style appears to lack any system in place...Would love to see Berube behind the bench, but I'm certain Lalonde will stay a few more seasons

 

[norrisnick]

50 point plus 40 top pairing D are easy to find.

They're somewhat easier to find when you've got a 90pt+ +40 partner to stick him with.

 

[Apfel Struble]

Very good bones on that Wings team. They feel like a reverse-Ottawa to me. Always greater than the sum of their parts, maybe it comes from the team leadership?

Detroit may not be The prime UFA destination, but it's still very close to the top in that department. Building a big strong defence and a not-undersized (though not big) centre depth and then signing some very talented undersized veterans UFA wingers feels like a good plan to me at least

Goaltending is a fickle beast though. My Habs get pretty lucky in that regard as good to great goalies seem to just spawn there regularly

 

[PaulD]

People don't seem to get that.

Started with Mantha as his 2nd best player and Zadina and Veleno as his best prospects. Has had 7 first round picks and only two are actually solidified in the NHL yet.

But for some reason he was supposed to turn the team around in 5 years from the dumpster fire Holland left it as.

Seems to be the opposite in Habtown Gorton and StLouis blowing kisses at each other .
It all about " learning , growing as a person, baby steps" As if the were an expansion team and this was the early 90s. And they are getting accolades from the talking heads. As if somethings been achieved.
The difference between Montreal and Detroit today?
Habs have lowered the bar big time......Wings not so.


.
.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

We will see...There's likely some roster changes coming up this summer...If Kane signs elsewhere - I'm not so confident we have the talent/depth to make up for his offensive ability and that may very well cost us a handful, or more games.

I'm still not a fan of Lalonde; too many nights where the team looked lost, or uninterested, and Lalonde's coaching style appears to lack any system in place...Would love to see Berube behind the bench, but I'm certain Lalonde will stay a few more seasons

This is very well said. Everyone tends to think of the "upside" but understate the risks of backsliding. Certainly not saying that it is a certainity, but if they don't resign Perron/Kane that's a significant amount of offense to replace. Wings will likely have cap space, but with the cap going up a lot of other teams will as well, and the legit scoring line UFA's will be heavily in demand.

 

[norrisnick]

This is very well said. Everyone tends to think of the "upside" but understate the risks of backsliding. Certainly not saying that it is a certainity, but if they don't resign Perron/Kane that's a significant amount of offense to replace. Wings will likely have cap space, but with the cap going up a lot of other teams will as well, and the legit scoring line UFA's will be heavily in demand.

I mean, there's no one on the open market that I'd want to even bid for, unless they really want to come to Detroit on a bargain deal. Any significant help up front will need to come via trade or internally.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

I mean, there's no one on the open market that I'd want to even bid for, unless they really want to come to Detroit on a bargain deal. Any significant help up front will need to come via trade or internally.

The UFA market was a little deeper at F than I expected: Stamkos, Reinhart, Guentzel, Henrique, Mantha, Bertuzzi, Teravainen, Zucker, Silverberg, Tarasenko, Marchessault, Lindholm, Perron, Olofsson, Lebanc, Wennberg, Arvidsson, Toffoli, Debrusk, Pavelski, Duclair, Domi, Duchene, Kane, (significant guys only - not a complete list)

Outside the top guys, most will probably get overpaid for too long and not the type of guys that the Wings should be building around.

 

[flying squirrel]

Detroit would be foolish to turn on Yzerman now, he should get at least 2-3 more yrs before any talk of him exiting starts. My guess: we might see big trades moves by Yzerman before 2 years time. Once Detroit is in legit positions come trade deadline: that's when those remaining assets, Yzerman likes to collect, will be used to fill remaining holes ferociously.

Lightning's foundation was better for Yzerman -vs- Detroit

• Marty St. Louis, young Stamkos/Hedman, Lecavalier, and others gave Yzerman a better foundation to start with. That's one of Yzerman strongest traits as GM in my opinion. He knows what it takes, what a team is lacking, and trades to fill those holes.
• Yzerman made some great moves, especially valued trades. He was magical sometimes, but Lightning's new GM BriseBois has been also been savvy at trade deadline to extend cores windows. Lightning are fortunate to have such GM's back-to-back...
• Once enough assets are had, Yzerman will push-all-in when it right time to do so. Detroit hasn't gotten to that point yet, they're close though. They started with less than Yzerman did at Lightning, it will take a little more time to build up those assets. If Detroit fans force him to be impatient, it will mess up Yzerplan. He didn't have those outside pressures and aggressive media with Lightning, he could work at his pace and do it right.
• Took Yzerman 4 or 5 yrs, and more, to get to starting point of being a juggernaut. The Lightning eventually turned into for 8 years straight, and remember this was with an OK foundation to start with too.
• Then there's the Lightning farm system, coaches, and ability to coach youth up. Yzerman gets some credit for drafting players, but with Lightning's farm system still producing after Yzerman has left the building. Maybe it's time we all give Lightning's farm system more credit than they received or receive now. They do such an awesome job!!!
• From skating coaches, player development, awesome AHL club environment, etc. Lightning rock at getting young talent to be best they can be to start their NHL careers.
• Not sure of Detroit farm system quality, but do they produce like Lightning's has last 12-14 yrs or so?
• If so, Detroit will have asset galore when it's time to spend for final pieces of puzzle.
• Oh yeah, head coaches as good as Cooper don't grow on trees. Had a chance at Cooper if Lightning would've gone down hard after flattest cap ever for "Cup" winners, but think that ship as sailed for now. Still got a decent head coach now though.

Yzerman is doing good, and if not for an injury to star player, they probably make playoffs. Plus, could've been a nightmare opponent for any #1 seed with the mojo they had going at seasons end. I'm no expert, and just have an eye with taking notice, but I'd give Yzerman more time without pressuring him. Will Detroit press and fans give that to Yzerman? Well see....

Good luck Detroit, always like ya since first time I witnessed your legendary team in person during 1996-1997 & 1997-1998 seasons. Was 1st season I eve went to hockey game, and was hooked after 1st game. But...... even with my ignorance, I could tell Detroit was just different than everyone else. The way they skated, moved together down the ice, and played game was special in person. When in the presence of greatness, one feels it.

 

[Jeremy2020]

Looking forward to next year's version of this thread.

 

[Raistlin]

They're somewhat easier to find when you've got a 90pt+ +40 partner to stick him with.

there is no way the 90 point guy can reach this level this year without a top line 50 point RHD to support him though. They feed off each other and absolutely deserves 7 million in today's market. He is the Rafalski to his Lidstrom using a RW comp.

 

[RRhoads]

there is no way the 90 point guy can reach this level this year without a top line 50 point RHD to support him though. They feed off each other and absolutely deserves 7 million in today's market. He is the Rafalski to his Lidstrom using a RW comp.

He had 76 points in 78 games last season. Seems more like natural development to me.

 

[thefutures]

50 point plus 40 top pairing D are easy to find.

The Wings were better this year than they were with hronek last year.

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

"The Yzerplan" year end grade

 

[Wings4Life]

I am proud of the team and how they battled down the stretch. True heart to tie that last game and send it to OT. Missed the playoffs on a tiebreaker.

Disappointing, but I think they bought themselves one more year with that, before I start calling for heads to roll.

 

[Raistlin]

He had 76 points in 78 games last season. Seems more like natural development to me.

I guess everyone has Makar ceiling naturally according to you. He is afforded to play a much more complete game when he has a guy with similar IQ as him 5v5. and while of late, he is making more mistakes defensively, for most of the season, he was very solid defensively also. The way he played this year, he is what you'd want ASP to develop into.


regarding Yzerman, I just think if he is in any other market, he would be very much in the hot seat. Where the team was at in feburary is where the expectations should be set, this cannot be treated like a rebuilding team anymore, its been long enough.

 

[cjeagle]

If they're a top pick/prospect, it was a no brainer pick they couldn't pass up.
If it's a player that develops into a great player the onus was on the player and them alone achieved it.
It's no win.

So far, in Detroit, his first three 1st round picks are seeming like hits. Seider, Raymond, and Edvinsson. Not only just hits, but impact players.
Then you have hits next 4 picks
Cossa - after being hailed as the wrong guy and not nearly as good as Wallstedt, he's making quite the impression this season.
Kasper - show start to this season coming off the broken knee, but he turned it up in 2024 and had a great season in the SHL in his d+1
Danielson and ASP are having fine D+1s, nothing indicative of busting.

So, go ahead and complain that he picked a future HoF cornerstone to a multiple SC winning franchise at 58 after picking a guy at 27 who's played 708 nhl games.

I was looking at Yzerman's draft picks since he became GM of the Redwings 5 years ago and I was impressed at how many prospects are doing well at the NHL, AHL SHL, KHL, OHL and NCAA level and still considered genuine NHL prospects that are mentioned often on the forums

2019 - Moritz Seider, Antti Tuomisto, Albert Johansson, Elmer Soderblom
2020 - Lucas Raymond, William Wallinder
2021 - Simon Edvinsson, Sebastian Cossa, Shai Buium, Carter Mazur
2022 - Marco Kasper, Dmitri Buchelnikov, Amadeus Lombardi
2023 - Nate Danielson, Axel Sandin Pelikka, Trey Augustine, Andrew Gibson

Obviously it is too early to say how the younger players from later draft picks who were not mentioned will do as they are still playing in the juniors but the record has showed that many have or about to make the jump to the AHL and the NHL already.

His first draft pick Seider at #6 was highly criticized for being a reach but Seider proved everybody wrong by winning the Rookie of the Year award in 2022 and is considered the 2nd best player in the 2019 NHL draft in most NHL redraft rankings and might even overtake Hughes at the end of their careers.

Another controversial draft pick was choosing Sebastian Cossa at 15th overall in the 2021 NHL draft over consensus top goalie Wallstedt.

He started slow last year in the AHL after just 3 games and played most of the season in the ECHL where he dominated but has gone 20-8-9 in 37 games to go with a 2.42 goals-against average and a .913 save percentage for Grand Rapids this year.

He went 19 decisions without a regulation loss (13-0-6) from Jan. 19 to April 5, establishing a franchise record. After an up-and-down first part of the season, Cossa has gone 16-2-6 with a 2.01 GAA and a .923 save percentage since Christmas.

Most telling of all he has outdueled other young goalie prospect studs Askarov and Wallstedt in the games he has played against them.

Cossa Measures Up Well Against Top Young AHL Goalies

What Detroit Red Wings fans want to know most about Sebastian Cossa is his ETA for the NHL. There’s still no timetable for Cossa’s ascension to the show, but Cossa is doing all that he can to expedite his rise. Cossa made 32 saves Wednesday to fuel the Grand Rapids Griffins to a 4-1 road […]

detroithockeynow.com

His first 2 draft picks this year Nate Danielson and ASP look like studs already with the former playing well in the NHL preseason as a last minute cut for the Redwings and ASP winning the best defenseman award at the World Junior Championships as well as for the SHL (Salming trophy) at only 19 y.o.