When did you know it was over for this group?

[Buds17]

Not absolutely certain about it being over just yet. Can't deny that they're currently down though...and out (of a playoff spot). While the series loss to Columbus was disheartening, that playoff loss to Montreal a season later was something else (and words about that probably aren't fit to print!).

 

[Nineteen67]

Did that come before Kaskisuo's NHL debut where they completely hung him out to dry? That was probably the most shameful performance I've ever seen in pro sports.

See a competitive, high character team like Carolina band together and protect a zamboni driver while the Maple Leafs just mail it in when they face any sort of adversity.

"Winnipeg lost to an accountant" is that classic 'smartest kid on the short bus' argument.

Rangers didn't have 8-9 ELC's that would need significant raises. In the case of the top 3 fwds, anywhere from 600-1200% salary increase. They weren't going to be able to keep everyone but Tavares' $11M ensured they had to essentially purge the entire secondary core before they'd even won a round.

I joked at the time it was like a teenager with their first credit card.

It was early in JT’s 1st season

 

[Budz22]

Been saying since the signing. Bringing Tavares in set them back.

 

[Mess]

For me it was the second that Leafs announced they were turning the reigns of the organization to green horn GM Kyle Dubas..

They were coming off a franchise record setting 105 points after being dead last a couple of years earlier and everything was looking great with all the young players and top draft picks in the organization.

Shanahan after relying of vets Babcock and Lou Lam to dig this franchise out of dumps after missing playoffs 10 of previous 11 seasons and restoring it to respectability and the playoffs again.

Rookie President hires a rookie GM .. What could possible go wrong?

 

[socko]

The high point was winning that draft lottery. The low point is every new day that Dubas is still GM.

 

[Judas Tavares]

Kerfoot penalty in game 6 vs. Tampa.

I apologize if that is too late for people.

Kind of reminds me of "When did the Simpsons go downhill?"

A lot will say Armin Tamzarian S9 E2, and ya it wasn't at its peak anymore after that, but there was still a lot to like up until season 13.

 

[Leafy Undergrowth]

I don't think it's really over. But I just have zero expectations of the players, coach and GM to deliver. And that realization has just been by a thousand paper cuts rather than one specific moment. To this point whenever it's mattered, they've not delivered. And too frequently been humiliated.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Remember game 4 in the Columbus series? The leafs were facing elimination down by 3 goals with 4 minutes left. Spezza fights someone, riles up the team, and they score 3 goals in less than 4 minutes, tying the game with 33 seconds remaining. They win it quickly in overtime.

That HAD to pump the team up, right? Winning the series in game 5 was borderline inevitable, right?

Wrong. The leafs didn't even show up for game 5. Just floated around and got shut out.

That's when I new.

 

[kevsh]

The OT goal in game 5 against Montreal.

Maybe with any other team I would have thought, okay, sucks they didn't clinch tonight but they came back after a bad start, played great and a bad bounce can happen to anyone. Instead I thought "this series is over".

Going into game 6 I just had absolutely zero faith that they'd come out, take control and finish Montreal. Game 7 was like the car wreck, knowing it was going to be ugly but feeling compelled to watch and suffer the inevitable.

Then to have to endure the off-season as not only did everyone keep their jobs but Dubas insisted he still believed in the core and basically just rinsed & repeated the same formula. Then the Kerfoot penalty in game 6 against the Bolts, same feeling as game 5 vs. Montreal.

So for me, this past off-season I was already at the point of learned helplessness. A tiny glimmer of hope that just maybe enough was enough in MLSE and either the board, Shanny or Dubas would do something substantial, but instead we got a virtual repeat of the previous Summer: Believe in the core. Tinker with the bottom 6. Bring everyone back that wants to be here.

 

[Cobra777]

Enjoyed this core Mathews rookie and following season, this team was very exciting to watch, they all played well and although not big on physical, they skated and made unbelievable plays and goals.

Even hockey pundits classified them as the most exciting team in the league.

Mathews, Nylander and Hyman were top line in league the second season.

Yes I was excited about the Tavares sweepstakes because he is a good player but mostly because finally our team enticed a big star to finally come to T.O. however we had a good 2nd line center in Kadri who had 2, 30+ goal campaigns.

Management Imho rushed the rebuild and should have spent that money on some Stud defensemen and a power winger left side for 2nd line as our defense needed some good players.

Now we cannot adjust anything due to cap issues and big contracts in approx 5 players.

Although AM won rocket scoring titles and Marner high pts. totals. I noticed a change in players after getting their big money and had an honest opinion to myself that they were running this team and lacked the will to win and play tough through adversity in post season play especially as these two players get shut down too easy.

Hence many here state that they see the same bad attributes and play of this team which is yes truthfully glaring at times, physical play and determination lacks in key games. Yes this team has finished reg seasons with franchise points totals but just lack that gear to get over and through to the next level.

Last season playoffs vs. Tampa the team played really well I was proud and really felt we were robbed game 6 and 7 by officiating, I have nothing bad to say about that series about the team itself.

All these 1st round exits must be a huge mental block by now and changes need to be made with core and cap issues as well as front office as I fear the same will just continue, you can see by the play of this season thus far that somethings just not there.

Again just my h.o.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

I’ll say this. Even when Tavares signed there was still hope. But his signing sped up the clock. But that meant one of either Matthews, Marner or Nylander had to go.

1. We don’t lose Babcock. We rid of the softies as was his agenda.

2. Matthews being a playoff ghost, a real hard GM would look at what we get. The Raptors Derozan Move. No team friendly deal we move on.

3. Marner had slumps and couldn’t hold the puck in the playoffs. No team friendly deal? We trade.

4. Nylander held out? Hindsight he should’ve been traded despite his deal the most friendly as it were.

5. The second Dubas was here and wouldn’t trade one of the stars out of loyalty, a deep part of me knew that other than luck, we ain’t pushing deep ever. Add the fact that Dubas went from short fast players, 2 years later he admits we need size and strength.

No team wastes precious window time on trying to reinvent the wheel.

Shanny hired a rookie as a GM and the GM hired a Rookie coach.

Blow it all up. Only guy is keep is Nylander TBH

 

[HoweHullOrr]

The second i heard they paid Johnny Mumbles 11m per .

Same for me = the JT signing. Wrong distribution of assets. Don't care if he was "free" . LOL, nothing is free as we've found out.

 

[Trapper]

I don’t know if it’s all over for this group, a significant change (not bottom 6) may be required to change the core but it’s certainly close to being all over for this management. If not there already.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Shanny hired a rookie as a GM and the GM hired a Rookie coach.

Takes one to know one. Shanny was a rookie too - a rookie President.

 

[1specter]

The team broke me in 2019 when they had the Bruins on the ropes and gave the series away. The reffing, Naz going out like that, the team not being able to kill a penalty, Freddy being a sieve etc etc. Then Dubas traded Kadri for a f***ing pylon and a third line tweener, and let that prick Marner and his family bend him over and f*** him dry with no lube.

That was when.

 

[Blowfish]

Easy - Hiring Shanahan who let Lou walk and hired Dubas who signed Tavares. F d everything up (cap, building stronger D and goaltending and bottom 6). It prevented them from retaining some very good players. It also increased the Marner contract.

 

[40BayStreet]

When Matthews and Marner signed their contracts. It showed what they cared about.

 

[BayStBullies]

When Keefe was hired.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

The team broke me in 2019 when they had the Bruins on the ropes and gave the series away. The reffing, Naz going out like that, the team not being able to kill a penalty, Freddy being a sieve etc etc. Then Dubas traded Kadri for a f***ing pylon and a third line tweener, and let that prick Marner and his family bend him over and f*** him dry with no lube.

That was when.

Yep. Deep down we all knew Marner should’ve been traded.

 

[TheVision]

Hindsight's a great tool isn't it. The Montreal series was the killer, but if I'm being completely honest, drafting Marner over Hanifin (this type of player has always been a great need to the team) was a huge misstep. I used to love Mitch Marner, now when he raises his hand to tell the refs how to do their jobs, constantly, I just tell him to shut up. The delay of game penalties in the playoffs also a great sounce of infuriation.

 

[justashadowof]

I'm not 100% sure. Maybe the 10th time in a row they shat their pants in a big game.

 

[definedMF]

As much as JT has been a valuable asset for a second line centre position, paying him 11 million set precedent for these selfish rookies to aim towards a certain value to be paid. This spiralled into us having to offload Kadri for being the only one with heart and compete on this team. Then we started bleeding some of our best homegrown, two way hardworking talent in players like Connor Brown and Zach Hyman, developed internally alongside plenty of others (Moore, Grundstrum, Durzi etc.)

We committed to a core who not only is still naive and immature in the way they play, but has barely made strides in maturing themselves to what made those players like Brown, Hyman and Kadri effective players back then and especially now.

This core of the leafs just don't have the driving force and if they can't muster it up 7 years later its not fault of our coaches as much as it just poor character evaluations by our president and GM. No doubt the biggest concern are these players, but those who write their paychecks have been there every step of the way encouraging their mediocrity.

 

[IPS]

2020 game 5 Columbus said all you needed to know about how flawed this core is both mentally and physically. From that moment on I said Dubas has to go, it was confirmed he created a culture of entitlement and non-accountability.

The Montreal series confirmed these suspicions. The way they started games 5-7, like they couldn't give the slightest f*** about what happens. And yet people still defended it, and they even turned into Montreal Canadiens fans for the rest of the playoffs to try and claim we just lost to this amazing team.

 

[Felix the Cat Potvin]

The day Denis Malgin was signed. It showed a GM with no new cards up his sleeve, just old, bad cards.

 

[Mickey Marner]

So hard to pick just one moment. My faith in them peaked during the Washington series and steadily decreased with every stupid move and embarrassing loss. The Marleau signing, the brutal contract negotiations, quitting on their coach, getting embarrassed in Long Island, getting embarrassed by Ayres etc. So many bellwether moments that they almost blur together.

But eventually I ran out of excuses for them after the Columbus series. When they made that game four comeback I thought they might have finally figured out how to dig deep and win a series. Then they threw in the towel for game five and any remaining faith I had in them was gone.

They got the coach they wanted, the contracts they wanted, the ice time they wanted, the line mates they wanted and none of it mattered. They were the same incorrigible bunch of mentally soft players who didn’t hate to lose, or even seem to mind it. There’s only so many times I can watch them get embarrassed and take it before I lose all respect for them.

They’re not even fun to watch lose because their boring style of play makes even that a chore. I really don’t see how they can ever recover. It’s no longer about moving one guy, they all need to go. The shitty losing culture has permeated into every crevice..