When are we going to be honest with ourselves about how bad Kyle Dubas is?

[Honour Over Glory]

There was no inteference from Shanahan for Dubas.

That was a media piece the loser put out once he was failing and let go.

Dubas ego cost him his job with the leafs. He went behind Shanahan back and wanted a better offer then what they had discussed (crazy MLSE was keeping Dubas and Shanahan after 2023 failure but thats another story). He wanted to be President of the leafa after f***ing us over in his half decade reign of terro as GM.

Dubas sucked then, sucks now and will suck into the future.

He makes good excuses but his failures are all his own. He had full autonomy on the leafs for 5 years and had no concept of being able to build a team for more than 1 year outlook.

Lol to think Dubas could put out a piece like that in the Leafs media which would have quickly been debunked it and talked about it to death to the point after he wasn't signed, he'd be laughed out of the league. I mean as far as tin foil hats go...

You lot act like the Leafs were some insane team that had reached the finals a bunch before he got there and he killed that dream.

In the last 25 seasons they missed the playoffs 10x and won 8 rounds of playoffs, booted 8x in the first round and pissed off in the qualifying round.

Now it's just whining about him.

Then you lot see Shanny hire a GM that shit all up and down the Flames franchise as hope. Yet same issues that were there before Dubas are still there. I guess it's easy to blame someone for everything so it helps you sleep at night.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

No but our team sucks because of the deals he’s made. I’m still in shock he squandered away his power with RFA rights to get totally cucked by agents. The ripple effects of that will haunt the leafs for an entire generation.

Plus his constant going after the shiny new thing with no regard to proper team construction then should have been a sign. He’s still doing it. He has no clue about the intangibles it takes to get a team to the cup - he’s just like a moth to flame and wants the shiny new thing every time. And he’s bad at it.

He's not the GM of the Leafs anymore Leafshater67

 

[DrDangles]

Not a huge fan of most of the moves in Pittsburgh so far but he gets too much flack for his time in Toronto. He built out some very deep rosters that looked like cup contenders. But GMs don't play in the games or make decisions from the bench, so I don't think it's fair to blame them when the guys on the ice underperform.

You can criticize trades and UFA signings, but if a GM is building strong rosters they're doing their job well, and I believe he built some very good teams in Toronto.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

No but our team sucks because of the deals he’s made. I’m still in shock he squandered away his power with RFA rights to get totally cucked by agents. The ripple effects of that will haunt the leafs for an entire generation.

Plus his constant going after the shiny new thing with no regard to proper team construction then should have been a sign. He’s still doing it. He has no clue about the intangibles it takes to get a team to the cup - he’s just like a moth to flame and wants the shiny new thing every time. And he’s bad at it.

Why would that matter anymore? Becuase he's not doing a great job in Pittsburgh? He's the fall guy.......they'll blame it all on him and he'll walk right into it.

And then he'll get another GM role after that.

 

[hamzarocks]

Lol to think Dubas could put out a piece like that in the Leafs media which would have quickly been debunked it and talked about it to death to the point after he wasn't signed, he'd be laughed out of the league. I mean as far as tin foil hats go...

You lot act like the Leafs were some insane team that had reached the finals a bunch before he got there and he killed that dream.

In the last 25 seasons they missed the playoffs 10x and won 8 rounds of playoffs, booted 8x in the first round and pissed off in the qualifying round.

Now it's just whining about him.

Then you lot see Shanny hire a GM that shit all up and down the Flames franchise as hope. Yet same issues that were there before Dubas are still there. I guess it's easy to blame someone for everything so it helps you sleep at night.

Keep riding the dube mate, I am sure it will work out eventually this time for him.

Your argument about the leafs past before dubas isn't relevent when the leafs rebuilt on the fly and were one of the highest ranking teams by multiple outlets in 2017 or 2018 with a future that was expected to lead to numerous playoff wins.

His built team failed 5 times in a row. He ran when he didnt get what he want. Dubas is a con artist that has minimal NHL accomplishments going into 7th year as an NHL GM.

Treliving can be a shit GM at the same time as Dubas. No one is arguing either is a good GM.

Treliving last offseason was doing good only getting 1 year deals. He f***ed up this summer by signing LT deals.

If dubas had any success with the Pens maybe could argue he was being held back by the leafs.

His signings and moves there outside of some draft picks look just as bad as here

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

Spezza went with Dubas no? What's he up to now?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Keep riding the dube mate, I am sure it will work out eventually this time for him.

Your argument about the leafs past before dubas isn't relevent when the leafs rebuilt on the fly and were one of the highest ranking teams by multiple outlets in 2017 or 2018 with a future that was expected to lead to numerous playoff wins.

His built team failed 5 times in a row. He ran when he didnt get what he want. Dubas is a con artist that has minimal NHL accomplishments going into 7th year as an NHL GM.

Treliving can be a shit GM at the same time as Dubas. No one is arguing either is a good GM.

Treliving last offseason was doing good only getting 1 year deals. He f***ed up this summer by signing LT deals.

If dubas had any success with the Pens maybe could argue he was being held back by the leafs.

His signings and moves there outside of some draft picks look just as bad as here

Riding the dube? I mean he hasn't done a good or bad job as a Pens gm, a role he didn't want but had to take because no one is stupid enough to take a job where the ownership won't let you fire the coach.

You want to take it so personal, I mean you all are, it's kind of funny to us Pens fans, then go right ahead.

Dubas isn't even the top issue with this franchise, not even top 2 or 5.

Spezza went with Dubas no? What's he up to now?

GM of Wbs. Hired a strong development coach there and also plucked a very good assistant coach for him that he has worked with before. Has a lot of youth in Wbs to keep an eye on.

He's done a decent job.

 

[hamzarocks]

Riding the dube? I mean he hasn't done a good or bad job as a Pens gm, a role he didn't want but had to take because no one is stupid enough to take a job where the ownership won't let you fire the coach.

You want to take it so personal, I mean you all are, it's kind of funny to us Pens fans, then go right ahead.

Dubas isn't even the top issue with this franchise, not even top 2 or 5.


GM of Wbs. Hired a strong development coach there and also plucked a very good assistant coach for him that he has worked with before. Has a lot of youth in Wbs to keep an eye on.

He's done a decent job.

These just come across as more excuses for dubas. I dont get why people will justify anything to fault anyone but him for results that have transpired under his tenure in an NHL managerial role?

He didnt want to take the job? Which other team was offering him a role with president title and so much term and money?

He came across as definately wanting the job as it was with FSG where he has ties and connections to ownership and got 7 years ~7M despite a half a decade of incompetence and failed results for his previous team.

He ended his tenure with TML getting himself fired with his media antics and trying to go over Shanahan for his role with ownership.

I didn't intend to take it personal but if it came across that way then my apologies

There is no point arguing with you any further though. You will keep/hold your view on dubas and I will hold mine.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

These just come across as more excuses for dubas. I dont get why people will justify anything to fault anyone but him for results that have transpired under his tenure in an NHL managerial role?

He didnt want to take the job? Which other team was offering him a role with president title and so much term and money?

He came across as definately wanting the job as it was with FSG where he has ties and connections to ownership and got 7 years ~7M despite a half a decade of incompetence and failed results for his previous team.

He ended his tenure with TML getting himself fired with his media antics and trying to go over Shanahan for his role with ownership.

I didn't intend to take it personal but if it came across that way then my apologies

There is no point arguing with you any further though. You will keep/hold your view on dubas and I will hold mine.

He was hired to be Director of Hockey Operations and was to find a GM. He tried to find a GM. It is known in their circles that FSG wants Sullivan there and don't entertain the idea of firing him. Dubas has made mistakes, also made a lot of good ones that Sullivan will make sure he will use moronically like usual. But he's done some good too. And really that's fair of his time in Toronto too. He made some shit moves, some good ones, a ton of mediocre ones.

Those blokes saw what happened to the other GM's and that the problem being a team that needs a coaching change where you can't make one and the ownership meddles is a dumb choice.

Dubas didn't seem like he wanted to be GM ever again. He got the title he wanted, it's more telling of what FSG has done to this franchise than Dubas has. The Pens gm job used to be a coveted role. The fact that they couldn't find a single candidate that would take the job is more hilarious than anything for FSG.

Literally no Pens fan thinks he should be GM. He is fine in the original job he was hired for. But who in their right minds would take that GM job? I don't really give a shit about him as a GM. But it's funny you lot are so triggered by him. Because you are. Admit that much.

It ain't Pens fans that are starting these threads or mentioning his time as a Leaf.

I'd wager if FSG finally saw the damage Sullivan has done to this team for years, let's him fire Sullivan, that following summer they'd probably hire a new GM and Dubas would be doing his original job only.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think the funniest part in this is after the Leafs, Dubas didn't want to be a GM anymore, likely saw he wasn't really fit for that type of job in the NHL. As a Director of Hockey Ops for the Penguins, just focusing on that side of his original role he was hired for, he's been great.

Having to take the GM job because no one wants to have Sullivan ruin their career by having more say than they would, he's had some bad and some good to his GM tenure, but it's hard to even gauge it when Sullivan is coaching this team worse than what got Mike Johnston fired. Back then, Sid at a 55pt pace was gross misuse of a star.

Now, 57pt pace and playing far worse, the narrative is the coach has been done dirty by the GM, in this case, Sullivan has been coaching poorly for a whole, he rolled into this season with 2 straight playoff misses.

Sullivan also randomly healthy scratched Jesse Puljujarvi after he played very well vs the Wings. Imagine healthy scratching a player after he's played well and looked like he earned a few shifts with Sid or Geno.

Sullivan is a moron. He's why this team looks like trash and why so many players look awful except a few. Even Geno was MJ proof when Sid was looking to have his worst season of his career. Funny, we're back to this and the focus is pushed to Dubas? His moves aren't as much of the problem than the coach that has used them in a system that is outdated.

• “Fenway Sports Group (FSG) has been working closely with Penguins head coach Mike Sullivan during the Pittsburgh Penguins transition between former GM Ron Hextall and whoever they hire to fill their current vacancy.

“Relative to the AHL club, I’m told FSG will mandate to their new GM that this AHL Penguins club needs to be highly competitive — on the persistent advice from Sullivan, specifically, in making sure the organization’s top prospects are developing in a winning environment.”

• “It might come as a surprise that Sullivan is so adamant about building/investing more in constructing an AHL roster as he has taken flack for barely giving the AHL Penguins’ call-ups — and young players like Jonathan Gruden — much of an opportunity in terms of ice time.

“‘This is a (Sullivan) thing more than whoever the new (GM) is, … and right now (Sullivan) has the hammer with the Fenway guys,’ one NHL source told InsideAHLHockey.com a few weeks ago.”

And, oh, by the way, here’s another question for FSG. Why does a coach who hasn’t won a playoff series since 2018 get to have such a “hammer” in setting organizational agendas anyway?

Especially while you are, theoretically, trying to hire his boss.

Tim Benz: Making sense of Mike Sullivan's reported AHL action plan for the Penguins' new GM

A Pittsburgh Penguins-related item we dropped into “First Call” last week has really stayed with me through the weekend. Tony Androckitis of Inside AHL Hockey posted these notes about the Penguins on both the NHL level in Pittsburgh and the AHL level in Wilkes-Barre/Scranton. • “There are big...

triblive.com

This is the main issue.

 

[Shanahanigans]

Idk man Dubas gets a lot of flack but the 2018-2023 teams he built for the Leafs were uber talented even if they did have holes…take a look at this roster from 2019 playoff game 1 for example. Lines 2-4 are incredibly deep. Reilly, Muzzin and Gardiner is a strong left side. Their only weakness was right D. They acquired Brodie after that to shore up the right side. Some of those teams at least should have made it to rounds 2 and 3. I understand the GM gets blamed especially with lack of success, but he built some pretty good rosters.

 

[Leafshater67]

He's not the GM of the Leafs anymore Leafshater67

I’m aware but he cursed that team by getting cucked by the core’s agents and left them with no cap space, a poorly constructed team and a broken culture. Theyll never move from that and they can’t because of Mitch’s NMC clause and UFA.

 

[danny90]

I’m aware but he cursed that team by getting cucked by the core’s agents and left them with no cap space, a poorly constructed team and a broken culture. Theyll never move from that and they can’t because of Mitch’s NMC clause and UFA.

Ah yes that 1-2 million in cap space would have made the difference.

If your top players can’t score, it’s on them.
Dubas gave the leafs a very solid chance every year. He made some mistakes but obviously was learning from those mistakes, he also made some good picks, trades and signings.

 

[BB88]

Honestly, this. From what Dubas was saying early on, it looked like he was going to start retooling the Penguins roster, making them younger, with an eye on future competition rather than present. But with Crosby and co. in town upper management didn't want to commit to that, wanting Dubas to try to contend instead. Which i think we can all see is just not feasible.

Then don’t talk about that

He knew the job he had when he took it or he’s an absolute idiot if he didn’t

There’s way too many people in the league who think you can just like that retool on the fly, be competitive and build for the future, Dubas is one if them