Whats wrong with Russia !!!

[Baseballhockey24*]

The problems with Russia really started happening after the lockout.

But Russia suffers from the same problem as India in Cricket and USA in Baseball nowadays. They have a history of being the best/second best country in their sport but have underachieved and choked big time when it counts the most, but they sometimes have been missing their best players.

India finally won the Gold Medal in 2011 after they last won in 1983, despite being top 2 or 1. Russia is in the same place, where they last won the canada cup in '81 and won the olympics in '88 -minus canada. In 1998 they would have won expect they were literally missing 10/19 of their best players, and in 2006 they beat champions Sweden and Canada while missing Fedorov Mogilny Khabibulin Zubov and Bure retired months earlier I believe, but they choked in the semis.

Russia after the 2009 WC went downhill fast and Canada since 2010 has been something amazing with their system. Russia always had good defencemen for international tournaments, speed, fancy passers and the most skilled/dynamic players overall throughout its history, but now their coaching is terrible (worst of the top 6), and their past/current goalies (nabokov varmalov and bobrovsky) are not better than Khabibulin was. If Vasilevskiy keeps at it, he has the potential to be the best Russia ever has.

But honestly I've noticed Czechs, Russians, and Sweden + USA to a lesser degree are not as good overall as they were years ago. In Russia's case though, its because they're their own worst enemy.

 

[Yakushev72]

The problems with Russia really started happening after the lockout. But Russia suffers from the same problem as India in Cricket and USA in Baseball nowadays. They have a history of being the best/second best country in their sport but have underachieved and choked big time but sometimes missing their best players.

India finally won the gold medal in 2011 after the last won in 1983 despite being top 2 or 1. Russia is in the same place where they last won the canada cup in '81 and won the olympics in '88 -minus canada. In 1998 they would have won expect they were literally missing 10/19 of their best players and in 2006 they beat champions Sweden and Canada while missing Fedorov Mogilny Khabibulin Zubov and Bure retired months earlier I believe, but they choked in the ending. Russia after the 2009 WC went downhill fast and Canada since 2010 has been something amazing. Russia always had good defencemen for international tournaments, speed, fancy passers and the most skilled/dynamic players overall throughout its history, but now their coaching is terrible (worst of the top 6), and their goalies (nabokov varmalov and bobrovsky) are not better than khabibulin was. If Vasilevskiy keeps at it, he has the potential to be the best Russia ever has. But honestly I've noticed Czechs, Russians, and Sweden + USA are not as good overall as they were years ago. In Russia's case though, its because they are their own worst enemy.

Interesting analysis, but it overlooks huge events and their impact on society. Hockey is just a fun little game which is played within the framework of the society where it exists. Your analysis assumes that nothing has changed in Russia since 1972, and that political and economic events in a turbulent society have no effect on the infrastructure of leisurely pursuits. Compared to football and other sports, hockey requires huge investment in infrastructure, which is why so few nations around the world play the sport. Your analysis is flawed in the sense that it concludes that hockey in Russia hasn't changed, its just that the Russians have adopted a more selfish attitude toward it.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

Basically, we need better defencemen and we need Team play - players carrying out the coach's strategy for the match. Relying too much on individual skill cannot bring victory against a team that has both individual skill and excellent team play and strategy, such as Canada.

The Russians should've stayed, but I can understand that this kind of loss was very humiliating for them and that they just wanted to get out of the building. Anything less than gold is disappointing for them and they were ashamed that they couldn't give the fans victory. Western media is also not always respectful towards Russia or the Russian people, but not many people in western nations are outraged because of this (some are, though). Of course though, rules of sportsmanship are there and should be followed.

 

[Pominville Knows]

I bet its very hard to get a cohesive system going in Russia. The country cant be led from central government, local people do as they wish anyhow. Obviously they could be more agressive though if they knew what they wanted.

 

[NyQuil]

well, for those who heard of it, it was no biggie. and there was no punishment whatsoever. how stupid is this? and that's why all this hue and cry about them leaving early looks moronic and sanctimonious to me. it's just a misunderstanding, and there're handshakes this time around for Christ's sake!

I can't even find any reference to it happening anywhere.

 

[kp61c]

I can't even find any reference to it happening anywhere.

exactly

 

[tacogeoff]

meh. who really cares. we won GOLD and that is all that matters. If they want to take their Silver medals, shake hands and get off the ice let them. I find the shaking of hands to be the best sign of sportsmanship anyway. I could care less if they didn't stay to listen to our anthem and see our superior team receive the Gold medals.

 

[DesertHombre]

I also have no issue with the Russian's leaving when the game was over. Only in hockey would they have a stupid tradition where the loser is expected to stay on the field of play (ice) and watch as the victors gloat and celebrate. Does the Super Bowl or Grey Cup loser stay on the field for the presentation of the trophy?
What other sport has this silly tradition? Allow the teams to shake hands and then let the losers leave.
Good on the Russian's for doing this, perhaps International hockey will rethink this stupid tradition.

 

[Shakey Rustie]

I also have no issue with the Russian's leaving when the game was over. Only in hockey would they have a stupid tradition where the loser is expected to stay on the field of play (ice) and watch as the victors gloat and celebrate. Does the Super Bowl or Grey Cup loser stay on the field for the presentation of the trophy?
What other sport has this silly tradition? Allow the teams to shake hands and then let the losers leave.
Good on the Russian's for doing this, perhaps International hockey will rethink this stupid tradition.

Pretty much every Olympic sport and a significant amount of international sports (i.e. F1) has the "losers" watch as the flag belonging to the gold medal winner(s) is raised and their anthem is played

 

[tacogeoff]

Pretty much every Olympic sport and a significant amount of international sports (i.e. F1) has the "losers" watch as the flag belonging to the gold medal winner(s) is raised and their anthem is played

Should be an option on whether to stay or go. still don't care that Russia left after shaking hands, we walked all over them, took the gold medal game and that is all that matters to me on a personal level.

 

[NyQuil]

exactly

I guess they picked a bad time to try to get away with it.

 

[Sentinel]

I wouldn't say they lack heart and passion. Russian players love to win they just really embarrass themselves when they lose. Probably the worse losers I've seen. They showed their true character like yesterday. It's not all Russians but most of them, good on Ovechkin, Malkin for staying.

Given the Canadian reputation for mucking it up at the end of lost games, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. At least Russians did not even attempt to injure the opposing players, like Canada has done in the past.

 

[NyQuil]

At least Russians did not even attempt to injure the opposing players, like Canada has done in the past.

That would have taken effort.

 

[Frank the Tank]

That would have taken effort.

...and the ability to catch the Canadian skaters. Jokes aside, that was a great skating Canadian team.

 

[Canuck21t]

I also have no issue with the Russian's leaving when the game was over. Only in hockey would they have a stupid tradition where the loser is expected to stay on the field of play (ice) and watch as the victors gloat and celebrate. Does the Super Bowl or Grey Cup loser stay on the field for the presentation of the trophy?
What other sport has this silly tradition? Allow the teams to shake hands and then let the losers leave.
Good on the Russian's for doing this, perhaps International hockey will rethink this stupid tradition.

It's not because of the sport of hockey, but rather about the type of competition. Every INTERNATIONAL competition they play the anthem of the winner and usually the loser stays till the end of the anthem. The Super Bowl and the Grey Cup are not international tournaments.

Like I said in a another post, it's really no big deal for us Canadians but if it was the other way around, I would not tolerate such disgrace by my national team and would want Hockey Canada to make sure such things would never happen again.

 

[Magicman]

The biggest issue with Russian hockey is that when a young defenseman shows any offensive upside he’s moved to wing, or center. It’s been a 30-year deterioration of their ability to develop defensemen. The wall dropped and only the top offensive Russian players have cashed in. Scoring gets the player out of Russia and to North America. If there is a top notch Russian defender in Junior he is offensive and a late bloomer. Quick name 2 Russian shutdown defensemen in the NHL that are top pairing guys. And are not closing in on 40.

Almost all NA junior/college programs utilize North American defenseman for the most part and sprinkle in European defensemen for offense.

 

[moropanov]

Russia's defense is terrible. Also theyr forwards are a bit overrated, because they are mostly not great 2 way forwards or grinders.... Russia fool's just itself by sending its almost Olympic calibre roster to WCH every year. They think they are top 2 calibre hockey national team, but in reality they are 4-6 ... Clearly behind Canada Sweden and Usa about same level as Finland/Czech.

 

[Scotty B]

For now at least...The only country that can match Russia's highly skilled forwards is Canada. Canada has more depth , of course; And, when the right Big Ice players are picked and/or available ( as we saw in the gold game ) more speed too. Still Russia's top six is pretty damn close to our top six...Again depth, team/ system play ( or lack thereof ), plus our D's ability to feed forwards the puck + join the rush, tips the scale WAY in our favour...

Looking forward, Yanks, who have a much more balanced team than Russia, are finally developing world class forwards to complement Kane ( let's leave mercurial Kessel outa this ). With their talented netties, and blue chip youngsters on D, tough to see how any Euro's will keep USA's A team outa the top 2...

 

[jekoh]

It's not because of the sport of hockey, but rather about the type of competition. Every INTERNATIONAL competition they play the anthem of the winner and usually the loser stays till the end of the anthem.

That's really not true at all. The football world cup for instance does not "play the anthem of the winner", if only because they play both teams' anthems before the game.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

For now at least...The only country that can match Russia's highly skilled forwards is Canada. Canada has more depth , of course; And, when the right Big Ice players are picked and/or available ( as we saw in the gold game ) more speed too. Still Russia's top six is pretty damn close to our top six...Again depth, team/ system play ( or lack thereof ), plus our D's ability to feed forwards the puck + join the rush, tips the scale WAY in our favour...

Looking forward, Yanks, who have a much more balanced team than Russia, are finally developing world class forwards to complement Kane ( let's leave mercurial Kessel outa this ). With their talented netties, and blue chip youngsters on D, tough to see how any Euro's will keep USA's A team outa the top 2...

Sweden is a more complete team than USA to me. Forwards are roughly of the same quality, but the Swedish defense is clearly better than the American defense. You have Karlsson, OEL, Kronwall, Hedman and guys like Hampus Lindholm for the future.
Lundqvist is arguably the best goalie in the world.

My ranking of the top 5 countries :
1. Canada
2. Sweden
3. USA
4. Finland/Russia

 

[Canuck21t]

That's really not true at all. The football world cup for instance does not "play the anthem of the winner", if only because they play both teams' anthems before the game.

Ok so there are exceptions. The point is, it's not just hockey and these guys should know by now.

 

[moropanov]

Russia's junior program also seems to be not on same level as in past.... No new Malkin's Ovechkin's or Kovalchuk's/Datsyuk's in last ten years and no new ones of that calibre seems to be coming in foreseeable future. If Russia's junior develovopment doesnt get clearly more effective in next 5-10 years theyr result's at men's level will also drop off. I mean at WCH level also because they have been there also realiable of theyr big star names. In Olympics they havent had any succees lately so that's propably not gonna be any worse than it has been

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Russia doesn't have a problem.

There D group isn't strong but besides that they r a great hockey anion.

 

[Scotty B]

Russia's junior program also seems to be not on same level as in past.... No new Malkin's Ovechkin's or Kovalchuk's/Datsyuk's in last ten years and no new ones of that calibre seems to be coming in foreseeable future. If Russia's junior develovopment doesnt get clearly more effective in next 5-10 years theyr result's at men's level will also drop off. I mean at WCH level also because they have been there also realiable of theyr big star names. In Olympics they havent had any succees lately so that's propably not gonna be any worse than it has been

Tarasenko, and Nichuskin ( sp? ) are pretty damn good. Kucherov's coming into his own. Panarin, Radulov, pas mal du tout

 

[jekoh]

Russia's junior program also seems to be not on same level as in past.... No new Malkin's Ovechkin's or Kovalchuk's/Datsyuk's in last ten years and no new ones of that calibre seems to be coming in foreseeable future. If Russia's junior develovopment doesnt get clearly more effective in next 5-10 years theyr result's at men's level will also drop off.

Datsyuk was completely unremarkable as a junior player and yet became one of the best players in the world, so I wouln't read too much into the juniors. There doesn't seem to be any relation between the WJC results and the results of the senior team a few years later. Also Russia's junior team was never really any better than it is now.