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Whats wrong with Russia !!!

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moropanov said:
Russia's junior program also seems to be not on same level as in past.... No new Malkin's Ovechkin's or Kovalchuk's/Datsyuk's in last ten years and no new ones of that calibre seems to be coming in foreseeable future. If Russia's junior develovopment doesnt get clearly more effective in next 5-10 years theyr result's at men's level will also drop off. I mean at WCH level also because they have been there also realiable of theyr big star names. In Olympics they havent had any succees lately so that's propably not gonna be any worse than it has been :D
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that's simply not true. just to name a few, abramov, sokolov and svechnikov (junior) are all gonna be elite players. defense on the other hand...
 
Sentinel said:
Russians did not even attempt to injure the opposing players, like Canada has done in the past.
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Namely? In the last World Championships a Markus Edler injured the Canada captain Eric Staal (knee on knee), which helped the Swedes keep the game even and later win on a penalty shootout
 
TheGoldenJet said:
Simply not true. Demolished Sweden single-handedly, and was the only Russian able to break through Canada's D.
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Malkin did look better than most Russian forwards against Canada. He played with heart, Russia just didn't have a team game so he ended up running against the wall of Canadian defence most of the time. He picked up his play as the tournament went along. But of course, we know how awesome he can be when he's at 100%, and unfortunately that wasn't the case this tournament. I wish him a speedy recovery and lots of success in the next season. Was just looking through his highlight-reels recently, man he's got some amazing goals - some of the most impressive I've ever seen.
 
Rob said:
There's no crisis in Russian hockey. Defense has to be better but this has been known for the past few years.
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When Canada lost at the World Cup '96 and then in Nagano Olympics, Hockey Canada was in a panic mode and reassessed its methods. It paid off because I think Canadian players are more skilled now than 15 years ago. It only took 2 best-on-best losses to shake up Hockey Canada. If the Russians want to become better and remedy their defense deficiency, they need to acknowledge there's some crisis in their development because saying there's no crisis isn't going to get any better.

You look at their forwards and they seem ok, but look at the big picture and you notice that Russia hasn't reached a best-on-best final since 1998. Stop putting so much importance on the World Championships and aim at being the best of the best. I think the fact that they've won so many World Championships and having 2 or 3 of the best players in the world have clouded their assessment of their overall status.
 
Canuck21t said:
You look at their forwards and they seem ok, but look at the big picture and you notice that Russia hasn't reached a best-on-best final since 1998. Stop putting so much importance on the World Championships and aim at being the best of the best. I think the fact that they've won so many World Championships and having 2 or 3 of the best players in the world have clouded their assessment of their overall status.
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SO, what are your suggestions?
 
Acallabeth said:
SO, what are your suggestions?
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His suggestions are clear. Admit that there is a problem with the team and that Russian development systems need to develop more defensemen. They don't need to have a Fetisov (although that would help a lot), but at least solid guys like Markov.

Team Russia cannot expect to win with players of Emelin or Kulikov's caliber. Russia can have all the offensive firepower in the world, it amounts to nothing when it is backed up by a weak defense.
 
19Backstrom said:
His suggestions are clear. Admit that there is a problem with the team and that Russian development systems need to develop more defensemen.
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There are always problems. What makes no sense is suggesting that the Russian system is suddenly in a state of "crisis" now moreso than before.

Russia hasn't been developing elite defensemen for decades now. They lose in a final and we get this thread?
 
Canuck21t said:
When Canada lost at the World Cup '96 and then in Nagano Olympics, Hockey Canada was in a panic mode and reassessed its methods. It paid off because I think Canadian players are more skilled now than 15 years ago. It only took 2 best-on-best losses to shake up Hockey Canada. If the Russians want to become better and remedy their defense deficiency, they need to acknowledge there's some crisis in their development because saying there's no crisis isn't going to get any better.

You look at their forwards and they seem ok, but look at the big picture and you notice that Russia hasn't reached a best-on-best final since 1998. Stop putting so much importance on the World Championships and aim at being the best of the best. I think the fact that they've won so many World Championships and having 2 or 3 of the best players in the world have clouded their assessment of their overall status.
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well i mean its not like canada has to actually train or even look hard for good defenseman right?
 
jekoh said:
Datsyuk was completely unremarkable as a junior player and yet became one of the best players in the world, so I wouln't read too much into the juniors. There doesn't seem to be any relation between the WJC results and the results of the senior team a few years later. Also Russia's junior team was never really any better than it is now.
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In 1989 WJC, they had Bure , Fedorov + Mogilny as their top line :amazed:
 
Canuck21t said:
When Canada lost at the World Cup '96 and then in Nagano Olympics, Hockey Canada was in a panic mode and reassessed its methods. It paid off because I think Canadian players are more skilled now than 15 years ago. It only took 2 best-on-best losses to shake up Hockey Canada. If the Russians want to become better and remedy their defense deficiency, they need to acknowledge there's some crisis in their development because saying there's no crisis isn't going to get any better.

You look at their forwards and they seem ok, but look at the big picture and you notice that Russia hasn't reached a best-on-best final since 1998. Stop putting so much importance on the World Championships and aim at being the best of the best. I think the fact that they've won so many World Championships and having 2 or 3 of the best players in the world have clouded their assessment of their overall status.
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How does an emphasis on winning the World Championship conflict with winning the Olympics? I don't see the conflict.
 
19Backstrom said:
His suggestions are clear. Admit that there is a problem with the team and that Russian development systems need to develop more defensemen. They don't need to have a Fetisov (although that would help a lot), but at least solid guys like Markov.

Team Russia cannot expect to win with players of Emelin or Kulikov's caliber. Russia can have all the offensive firepower in the world, it amounts to nothing when it is backed up by a weak defense.
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Its not a matter of "admitting there is a problem," like an alcoholic. They didn't want to have to play some of the D men that were out there last Sunday - they had to play them because of injuries to other defensemen. The group out there in the WHC final was not representative of the best D men in the KHL. That is not to say that there isn't a shortage of good defensemen - that's obvious, but this wasn't a new development beginning last Sunday.
 
Scotty B said:
In 1989 WJC, they had Bure , Fedorov + Mogilny as their top line :amazed:
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The 1989 team was Soviet, not Russian. Even though all those guys are from Russia, and Russians made up 99+% of the Soviet teams, there is a huge difference between the training and development of elite youth players in the Soviet Union in comparison to Russia. Its really apples and oranges.
 
Yakushev72 said:
Its hard to imagine its different anywhere else. How do coaches decide who will be a forward and who will be a defenseman? I'll bet most countries put the best and quickest skaters at forward, and the bigger and slower skaters at defenseman. Can anyone shed light on that?
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I grew up in Nova Scotia and my coaches made me play D, RW and C when I started but kept me at C and D occasionally because that's what I was the best at.

About the state of Russian hockey, I think this loss has been way overblown. A 1st or 2nd line two-way center and a few puck moving D would have had a huge outcome on the game.
 
Killdo said:
I grew up in Nova Scotia and my coaches made me play D, RW and C when I started but kept me at C and D occasionally because that's what I was the best at.

About the state of Russian hockey, I think this loss has been way overblown. A 1st or 2nd line two-way center and a few puck moving D would have had a huge outcome on the game.
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I absolutely agree!
 
Yakushev72 said:
Its not a matter of "admitting there is a problem," like an alcoholic. They didn't want to have to play some of the D men that were out there last Sunday - they had to play them because of injuries to other defensemen. The group out there in the WHC final was not representative of the best D men in the KHL. That is not to say that there isn't a shortage of good defensemen - that's obvious, but this wasn't a new development beginning last Sunday.
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The problem is that even the best defencemen in the KHL are mostly North Americans and they are so far down the depth charts for Canada and the US that there is almost no chance of them ever playing for those national teams.
My experience with minor hockey is that the most talented players usually play centre until they reach a high enough level of play (AAA, Jr A, CHL, etc) where a lot of the good kids are moved back to play D. I think in places like Russia where there isn't the same volume or concentration of players that a lot of guys end up staying at forward right through their development.

I thought I'd also include this post from the Russia forum since you give a very different opinion here of the KHL than I've seen you post anywhere else. Probably the most honest I've ever seen you be.

Yakushev72 said:
You wonder how long the KHL can survive putting 3rd rate talent on the ice? As soon as any of these guys has a good year, they're on the phone with their agent getting them on the first flight to NA. How long can the KHL brass generate interest in their game when the best you could say of any of the players is "he'll be here unless someone thinks he's good enough to play in the NHL?" How long can they can continue to pay high salaries and operating expenses to exhibit the skills of guys that no one else wants? Today's GMG was a real embarrassment for the KHL, and I'm seriously wondering how much longer the league will be in business?
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What's worrying is, this was a message sent considering Canada will be sending a D team for the next 2 tournaments. The last 2 times Russia has faced a team worthy being called Team Canada it's been pure domination, 7-3 in Vancouver, and now 6-1 in Prague and that's without mentioning Canada went out and left a note of history by winning Olympic Gold in Russia.

Next time in the 2016 World Cup, can you imagine the confidence Canada has going into that game.

It's incredible to think but this is Russia's Golden Age of forwards, with the upcoming prospects coming up don't see them having forwards of this magnitude ever again for a long time. It's a shame for them they met the Golden Generation of Canadian Hockey players who still have one more Olympics in them as they go for a 3-peat.
 
Yakushev72 said:
Its not a matter of "admitting there is a problem," like an alcoholic. They didn't want to have to play some of the D men that were out there last Sunday - they had to play them because of injuries to other defensemen. The group out there in the WHC final was not representative of the best D men in the KHL. That is not to say that there isn't a shortage of good defensemen - that's obvious, but this wasn't a new development beginning last Sunday.
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Russia doesn't have many great Dmen. You can't expect to win against Canada or even Sweden when the defensemen on the roster are an aging Markov and offensively inept players like Emelin or Kulikov.

If the Russian Dmen had just half the talent of their fellow countrymen playing forward, Russia would have a shot at beating the top nations in the world.

Right now, Russia is on the same tier as Finland and behind Canada, Sweden and the USA.
 
19Backstrom said:
Russia doesn't have many great Dmen. You can't expect to win against Canada or even Sweden when the defensemen on the roster are an aging Markov and offensively inept players like Emelin or Kulikov.

If the Russian Dmen had just half the talent of their fellow countrymen playing forward, Russia would have a shot at beating the top nations in the world.

Right now, Russia is on the same tier as Finland and behind Canada, Sweden and the USA.
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That was what TSN was saying over and over as well. That Russia's defense is pretty poor right now. I def agree.
 
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