What's Up With Verhaeghe?

[Goptor]

That would affect more than just him though right?

I mean the +/- is the worst on the team by a longshot.

Because it has some relevance taken with context, some people just want to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

2nd in ENG allowed

Teams With The Most Empty Net Goals Allowed 2024-2025 | StatMuse

The Colorado Avalanche have given up the most empty-net goals by a team this season, with 10 allowed.

www.statmuse.com

1st in SHG allowed

Which Team Has Given Up The Most Short Handed Goals | StatMuse

The Florida Panthers have allowed the most shorthanded goals by a team this season, with 5 allowed.

www.statmuse.com

1st in SHG scored

NHL Team Most Short Handed Goals 2024-2025 | StatMuse

The Florida Panthers have scored the most shorthanded goals by a team this season, with 5 scored.

www.statmuse.com

The other guys are out there racking up +s on the PK while Verhaeghe isn't. Do we really need a stat that gives a really poor view of player usage when we already have the exact TOI numbers doing the same thing?

 

[NotCommitted]

He's -6 5v5, or 42% goals for with 55% xGF% ... PDO is .939 (absurdly low)

I haven't really seen him play this year but just nerding on the most basic advanced stats I'd say he'll be fine.

 

[wetcoast]

2nd in ENG allowed

Teams With The Most Empty Net Goals Allowed 2024-2025 | StatMuse

The Colorado Avalanche have given up the most empty-net goals by a team this season, with 10 allowed.

www.statmuse.com

1st in SHG allowed

Which Team Has Given Up The Most Short Handed Goals | StatMuse

The Florida Panthers have allowed the most shorthanded goals by a team this season, with 5 allowed.

www.statmuse.com

1st in SHG scored

NHL Team Most Short Handed Goals 2024-2025 | StatMuse

The Florida Panthers have scored the most shorthanded goals by a team this season, with 5 scored.

www.statmuse.com

The other guys are out there racking up +s on the PK while Verhaeghe isn't. Do we really need a stat that gives a really poor view of player usage when we already have the exact TOI numbers doing the same thing?

He has been on the ice for 26 ESGA which is tied for 10th overall in the league and tops on the Panthers.

Some bad luck sure maybe but it's relevant.

 

[Goptor]

He has been on the ice for 26 ESGA which is tied for 10th overall in the league and tops on the Panthers.

Some bad luck sure maybe but it's relevant.

So you needed to use another stat to explain +/-

 

[archangel2]

I despise the plus/minus stat. It often means you are playing against the other teams top line more than others

 

[Honour Over Glory]

He has only five goals, but more alarmingly, he's -16.

Plus/minus is a stat that requires consideration of context to have any real meaning.

Well, he plays on a good team (that won the Cup last year) and has by far the worst rating on his team.

View attachment 935130


Other than bad luck, what's the problem?

The Panthers went to the finals 2yrs in a row. They're tired. The moment the Allstar break hits and that dumb 4 Nations bs, they'll get the rest and have a stronger second half.

They went the distance two yrs in a row, that takes a toll.

 

[biturbo19]

I don't know that anything is really "up" with him. More likely, he's just having a bit of a Cup Hangover season, and was never nearly as good as some of his results made him look. Same as he's probably not as bad as his current results may look.

 

[centipede2233]

He signed his retirement contract opening day

 

[Mogo]

He's signed until he's 36 and is declining already. I'm not sure many teams would be happy with his pay and production.

I mean he's no Huberdeau

 

[Frolov 6'3]

He's signed until he's 36 and is declining already. I'm not sure many teams would be happy with his pay and production.

Well thats kinda harsh but its not a good contract, me thinks too.

I actually believe it kicks in next year and he is signed until he is 37.

 

[GreatSaveLuongo]

He only shows up in big games and playoffs

 

[Oddbob]

When your +/- is worse than your linemates and by a good margin it most definitely does mean something. +/- needs context and in this scenario it is provided.

 

[BonMorrison]

He is also on my fantasy team, OP.

Found the courage to drop him this morning.

 

[Channelcat]

That contract won't age well.

 

[TageGod]

Power play goals do not count for +/-. -16 means his team sucks defensively when he is on the ice.

Yes, there are plenty of reasons to not take stock in it, but it IS SOMETHING. You don't get to be the worst or one of the worst on your team without them being an issue.

 

[Mubiki]

Whenever I see +/- I think of giving up goals on the PP and getting scored on with the net open.
I expect he's on their PP, not on their PK, and is a go-to option for 6on5 situations.

I have no idea why that stat is still shown.

Maybe I'm just confused by the phrasing, but you are aware that special teams does not contribute to +/-, right?

 

[Grifter3511]

Maybe I'm just confused by the phrasing, but you are aware that special teams does not contribute to +/-, right?

Without double checking, I'm pretty sure it does if you are the team on the pp and you get scored on. No +/- for either team when the pp team scores but a +/- for everyone if the shorthanded team scores.

 

[jonlin]

All theese "+/- mean nothing" comments are kinda dumb. If you let in more goals than you score, you`ll lose. When you have 7 more -:s than the next guy on your team, it`s absolutely worrysome.

 

[Laus723]

Lotsa hopes and wishes in this thread. Reality is he’s struggling, as I said. He’ll figure it out.

 

[McGarnagle]

Having watched them pants us year after year, I don't comprehend how anyone on Florida could be a minus.

 

[Mubiki]

Without double checking, I'm pretty sure it does if you are the team on the pp and you get scored on. No +/- for either team when the pp team scores but a +/- for everyone if the shorthanded team scores.

Yeah, that's correct. I wasn't really considering SHG in my response because they are somewhat rare and they don't alter any existing narratives due to being objectively worse than allowing a goal 5v5. I would consider any argument suggesting a player is being treated unfairly due to an abundance of SHG allowed to be inherently counterproductive.

But you are right, I should have been more clear.

 

[DJJones]

Laughing that someone with a slow 20 game start to the season is apparently now in decline.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Whenever I see +/- I think of giving up goals on the PP and getting scored on with the net open.
I expect he's on their PP, not on their PK, and is a go-to option for 6on5 situations.

I have no idea why that stat is still shown.

+/- doesn't have any effect on the PP/PK.

 

[Goptor]

+/- doesn't have any effect on the PP/PK.

You do not get a + if you score a goal on the PP but you get a - if you get scored on. Opposite is the same also. You get a + if you score a goal on the PK but you do not get a - if you get scored on.

Guys who play on the PP and not the PK rack up extra -'s while having no chance of getting a + during that time.
Guys who play on the PK and not the PP rack up extra +'s while having no chance of getting a - during that time.

Its why your defensive Dman is usually atop the +/- list on a team and the pure offense player is at the bottom.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

You do not get a + if you score a goal on the PP but you get a - if you get scored on. Opposite is the same also. You get a + if you score a goal on the PK but you do not get a - if you get scored on.

Guys who play on the PP and not the PK rack up extra -'s while having no chance of getting a + during that time.
Guys who play on the PK and not the PP rack up extra +'s while having no chance of getting a - during that time.

Its why your defensive Dman is usually atop the +/- list on a team and the pure offense player is at the bottom.

This isn't true. Nobody gets anything on the PP/PK. You need to look at how the stats work better.

edit - sorry, you CAN get a minus if you give up a shorthanded goal or a + if you score shorthanded goal. That's it. I'm not sure if that's what you were saying or not, but there aren't a million shorthanded goals anyway to really make much a difference on the +/-.