Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XIII (Nanaki edition)

[mike14]

Any Post Sports Plus payers have a breakdown of Larry's piece? Sounds like it might be juicy.

Post #3,443

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Confused on why Trouba would “accept” a trade anywhere(on his list or not), after this summer they made it seem like he would straight up refuse to report?

He doesn't get the option to accept or decline anything on his trade list. If he tried to reject a trade somewhere he's gonna get the Goodrow treatment and at the very worst land in Hartford.

 

[Machinehead]

He's been one of the worst 5v5 players in the league this year, he's 33 going on 34, his effort level is poor. I get it's a small sample of him being this bad, but he's looked terrible all season and he's not someone who can fall back on his elite skill. He might just be hitting the wall quicker than expected.

Yeah, that part of it is true, but I'm not convinced most people believe this.

Most people believe that a shakeup is going to magically make bad players good because they're "uncomfortable" now or whatever.

In fact, Kreider is the only one where you could levy the argument that he has a history of being an effective player and picked up some bad habits.

For Lindgren, Trouba, and Zibanejad, this is what they are.

 

[McRanger92]

I speculated that a rift in the locker room would start percolating a few weeks ago. A few handwaved it, but what did anyone expect when our leaders have been bad and apathetic but still get top minutes over young homegrown guys like Laf, Cuylle, and Schneider. Especially once Lafreniere signed that extension; that was an implicit acknowledgement to everyone that this was now his team. Those 3 I mentioned also go way back with each other. Just saying.

Throw in the looming Igor contract and it seems like a powder keg to me. Shesty looked like he threw that Buffalo game a few weeks back. Message sent to the NMC Squad? There is no shortage of money to go around for Igor if we remove the clowns he has been making look good for years. He's a keeper.

 

[ArPanet]

Chris, Steve Staios on line 1 for you.

Tell him I'm unavailable.

Chris, Kevyn Adams on line 2.

I'm not here.

Chris, Marketing on line 1, they're saying the team no longer matches their taglines, No Quit in NY and It Takes Everyone.

Damn, I can't have that. Get Steve Staios and Kevyn Adams on the phone for me.

Or, maybe tv ratings are very down.

 

[Lion Hound]

I keep going back to the game where Zibanejad got bumped from the faceoff circle and went to the lockeroom. It was weird. Like we were only seeing the tip of the iceberg where the majority of it was submerged.


The pieces coming out today are significant.

Personally I don't thin Kreider is on the block. Yes, 5 on 5 hes been bad. Hes always been a huge peice of the core and a player that has tremendous respect from his teammates. I think its possible his name leaking to the press sends a big message to the players who are performing with contracts that effect marketability via their clauses.

Maybe, Coach or GM had a talk with Zbad? Maybe it didn't go well? "Listen Mika we need you to play up to your contract. If not, were going to look at other options?" Maybe he took it too hard, and left the ice that game to compose himself? Then the team takes a beating in its last game and prompts GM and Coach to make change? If the core cant be moved becuase of certain players refusing to waive then we go to the thing that will sting them the most but offering up #20 in #93's place. Using Krediers name in the press is a bold move. I really think its to get players attention.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I don’t think Kreider is declining and most of his issues are effort.

Source? I’ve seen him look like he usually does this year. He’s made the choice to make it a very sparingly rare occurrence.

 

[JimmyG89]

This narrative drives me bonkers.And no doubt Drury thinks this which makes it even worse.

He had a chance to make other moves. No one had a gun to his head telling him to re-sign Lindgren after being ass for multiple seasons.

This whole victim complex of “oh well we wanted to make changes but Jacob messed up our plans”. Newsflash Chris, you get paid to pivot when the plans go south.

Not publicly pout that something didn’t go your way and that’s why this year won’t be as successful as last year.

Or just say f*** it and stop me if you want to. He didn't need to bend the knee to Trouba and his agent's tactics. If he is that net of a negative (he is), you make the move regardless of the return.

Lindgren was the obvious one and should have been done as soon as the season ended. There is no spinning back of the odometer. We missed out on guys that could be filling a 2nd or 3rd pair role for this team in free agency or via trade.

I do commend Drury for trying to make this work for a long as he did, but he didn't need to extend Mika either. Maybe he needs the kick in the pants at this point and moving Kreider gets him going. I am excited to see what Berard and Cuylle could do on his wings because both can skate, engage physically, and have offensive ability.

This forward group of Panarin/Zibanejad/Kreider have gotten numerous kicks of the can. It's time to give the reigns over to the guys Drury actually drafted.

 

[Alluckks]

Larry only writes pieces like this when Drury is sending him an email of exactly what to publish.

Writing is on the wall for Trouba, he seems gone. Lindgren likely too afterwards at some point.

Kreider stuff seems to be the message that if this team doesn't get it together that Kreider is target number 1 to be moved at the trade deadline to build for the new core.

This core thought they earned runway for 1 last hurrah or something. Last year was your shot for you guys to the guys.

 

[Machinehead]

To put a positive spin on this:

Even if I disagree with all of the following --

-Kreider is the right one to trade
-A shakeup does anything
-The roster is good enough with our without Kreider
-Their new approach, if any, will be rehabilitative (I don't not think this, but they haven't earned my trust yet)

At least it's something. They're sitting here at 12-6-1 and acknowledging it's not good enough. It's the first sign the FO is not just focusing on wins and understanding that the brand of hockey is a problem.

 

[zlev]

I speculated that a rift in the locker room would start percolating a few weeks ago. A few handwaved it, but what did anyone expect when our leaders have been bad and apathetic but still get top minutes over young homegrown guys like Laf, Cuylle, and Schneider. Especially once Lafreniere signed that extension; that was an implicit acknowledgement to everyone that this was now his team. Those 3 I mentioned also go way back with each other. Just saying.

Throw in the looming Igor contract and it seems like a powder keg to me. Shesty looked like he threw that Buffalo game a few weeks back. Message sent to the NMC Squad? There is no shortage of money to go around for Igor if we remove the clowns he has been making look good for years. He's a keeper.

the hell are you talking about. nothing in this post is based in reality.

 

[noncents]

Most of us do. A handful of assclowns drove him away.

what's funny is that every person assigns blame to other assclowns. as someone who became active after Edge retired or decommissioned, I have no idea who drove him away.

 

[bernmeister]

I hate to rehash it once again, but yeah, this particular set of moves probably cost the Rangers a much more fruitful window than the one we ended up with.

As for the fact that Drury is trying to make a shake up trade, I am happy to hear it, even though I'm kinda surprised Kreider is at the top of the list. But this team has run it's course as I said the other night. Maybe if Kreider goes it would convince Mika to waive as well.

no don't want mika to win there
he goes, and not on his terms, including CK being victimized by him
and then zib beats it out of town

no
we have enuf other vets we can move so he gets the message
and we can play him other than 1C
or even not at all

 

[Mike in Houston]

It just sucks that the homegrown Kreider is going to have to pay the price because other players who haven't meant shit to the organization by comparison can't be moved.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Yeah, that part of it is true, but I'm not convinced most people believe this.

Most people believe that a shakeup is going to magically make bad players good because they're "uncomfortable" now or whatever.

In fact, Kreider is the only one where you could levy the argument that he has a history of being an effective player and picked up some bad habits.

For Lindgren, Trouba, and Zibanejad, this is what they are.

I agree, just moving Kreider and hoping it shakes up the locker room is not a solution. But at this point, in my eyes it really doesn't matter, this core is done, they are not winning anything, and if it means the team takes a step back, which they were going to do anyway because they traded Kreider than so be it. Obviously there needs to be further moves made, including trading Trouba, Lindgren, trying to cajole Zibanejad into moving perhaps swapping Miller for a different LD. It's time.

 

[Kords]

I liked Edge and it really sucks if posters here drove him away, but his last few posts were very pointedly personal about the Drury hiring and the ensuing house cleaning. Reading between the lines I assume someone close to him that he got his info from was affected and that's why he ultimately drove off into the sunset. Just a guess though, I know some guys here were pretty lousy about believing his sources.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Wouldn't it be something if we found out Kreider was on board with this as a means of helping the message get across to the team? Knowing full well he's not in any danger of being moved. As the senior most Ranger maybe Drury and Laviolette went to him with this and he agreed.

 

[zlev]

I liked Edge and it really sucks if posters here drove him away, but his last few posts were very pointedly personal about the Drury hiring and the ensuing house cleaning. Reading between the lines I assume someone close to him that he got his info from was affected and that's why he ultimately drove off into the sunset. Just a guess though, I know some guys here were pretty lousy about believing his sources.

i have a feeling that Edge didn't have any real scoops for years but he liked the attention. he would show up and make 25 of the same exact long winded posts that really didn't tell us anything while everyone here worshipped him.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Actually it was the exact best thing that they could do to give them a chance to go as far as possible. It's hard to argue the latter.

The young players that have made strides on the roster in the 100 games that Laviolette has coached:

Lafreniere
Chytil
Kakko
Cuylle
Schneider
Jones
Edstrom

Does Gallant even give them a chance? Probably not. On top of that, you got the best year of Trocheck as an NHLer, Panarin dropped 120 points, and you made the conference finals and lost to the best team in the NHL.

Young players need structure to develop appropriately. Gallant and Quinn offered none of that, and AV before that was very similar. Torts was the last coach that went on about structure. The development track post Torts was not good. There are very few that did develop after the fact. Zibanejad, Fox, Lindgren, and Miller are the ones that stand out. Strome didn't develop, just saved his career. Tons of busts though, and high draft selections on top of that.

The vets bought into it last season, so has the message worn thin on the group or do these veteran players tune out a coach too quickly? They played through the Quinn years because it was a retool and the veterans ran the show. Gallant comes in to try and "toughen" the team up, and it "works" for a year, but have no tactics behind their play.

Laviolette has his system and asks you to play a part in it. If a veteran player cannot last more than 120 total games in that system, it's the player, not the coach.

This is you basing it on the assumption that I wanted to keep Gallant instead of putting him in front of a war tribunal. I had multiple complaints about the hiring process, specifically why I didn’t want Laviolette to be the coach. He had the same exact issues in Washington getting an older core to buy into his system and execute his game plan. Yes, younger players have done better under him than in his time in Washington, but I think a lot of credit there needs to be given to Muse and Peca. I liked Laviolette adding those two a lot. I’d also say you’re being a bit lenient on some of those guys when the major standout is really just Laf. I’d give Cuylle good odds to continue to have a good season too. I’m not a fan of how the dmen are developing at all.

The key was hiring a different coach *and* retooling the core going into last year. Now they’re just heading towards a mushy middle and have the Laviolette fatigue phase looming. They need to be proactive to avoid it.

 

[Raspewtin]

To put a positive spin on this:

Even if I disagree with all of the following --

-Kreider is the right one to trade
-A shakeup does anything
-The roster is good enough with our without Kreider
-Their new approach, if any, will be rehabilitative (I don't not think this, but they haven't earned my trust yet)

At least it's something. They're sitting here at 12-6-1 and acknowledging it's not good enough. It's the first sign the FO is not just focusing on wins and understanding that the brand of hockey is a problem.

It cannot be overstated how un-ranger like it is for them to have a good record and they still look to move core pieces. I will give that to Drury, nice job.

If Kreider is traded in this circumstance, fine, but it's a tragedy he'd outlive Trouba or Zibanejad. Trouba has been an epic career disappointment here. Zibanejad had two great years and one great playoffs and never came close again. Kreider is my adult life's Mr. Ranger, it would really suck for it to end this way, but you can't say he didn't bring it on himself.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

what's funny is that every person assigns blame to other assclowns. as someone who became active after Edge retired or decommissioned, I have no idea who drove him away.

the long and short of it was he was feeding the board information about the team and potential happenings and there were folks that really went after him claiming he didn’t know anything (people are doing it in this thread as we speak)

And it got to the point that he left.

There could be some truth to his sources being fired by Drury and he had no info left to give, but it’s very clear that he did not appreciate talking shit about him.

As someone that had multiple 1-1 conversations with him, he was clearly a person with inside knowledge.

there is nothing to gain from making this stuff up. He was sharing because he was a fan of the team just like us and wanted to give folks a peek on the inside.

 

[McRanger92]

View attachment 935375

I don't really care about the defense right now. It's 19 games. You could chalk that up to noise.

Look at the offense!!

This is why we dont have to trade for Brady Tkachuk. We have one right here and he isnt a sideshow. We just need to play Captain Cuylle like a top line player.

 

[mike14]

Kreider brings back actual value in a trade, and is replaceable*, which is why it makes sense that he'd be one of the first to go if change is coming. Outside of he, Panarin and maybe Miller there's noone one else I think we'd be looking to move who would actually return really useful pieces.

*By replaceable I mean that we have players in the system who can play his position and are either ready for more minutes/responsibility with the big club, or close to being ready with the Pack, or are named Perrault. None of them replace what CK is/was doing, but position wise we'd be ok.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

It cannot be overstated how un-ranger like it is for them to have a good record and they still look to move core pieces. I will give that to Drury, nice job.

If Kreider is traded in this circumstance, fine, but it's a tragedy he'd outlive Trouba or Zibanejad. Trouba has been an epic career disappointment here. Zibanejad had two great years and one great playoffs and never came close again. Kreider is my adult life's Mr. Ranger, it would really suck for it to end this way, but you can't say he didn't bring it on himself.

I mean when the Letter went out they were in a wild card spot or close to iirc. Pretty ballsy.

 

[Machinehead]

I think Drury probably deserves a chance at least. Building a contender from the remnants of The Letter was doomed during Gorton's time. I come back to a few things:

-They didn't prioritize speed and skill with those 2017-2020 or so picks, which we've gotten almost nothing out of, not counting automatics like Lafreniere.
-As soon as they put a few good pieces together they tried to accelerate the rebuild and chained a bunch of cap space to a B+ core.
-They never made an aggressive play at a 1C, which they kind of needed to. They just hitched the wagon to Zibanejad, and if you were going to accelerate the rebuild, he wasn't it.
-In general, they haven't prioritized centers at all. The pipeline is completely barren at that position. Kaapo Kakko is playing center tonight because the organization literally ran out of them.
-David Quinn was not a good hire and had no concept of making players better in the NHL. Nobody got better under him on either team he coached. He coaches a college game and was anathema to young players looking to develop past that point.