TSN: What's holding up Kopitar's new contract? (MOD WARNING) post #205

[Captain Mittens*]

Kopitar made $6M each of the first 2 years of his deal. He scored 81 and 73 points those 2 years. How was he overpaid?

that's already been covered, please go re-read the whole conversation.

 

[Omni Owl]

I'm seriously high on Kempe as well. Really hoping he turns into a Barkov, Scheifele, Krejci, or Brassard for us. Glad they moved him back to center because we desperately need more youth coming up in that position.

Kopitar
Carter
Kempe
Shore

Center is arguably the most important position in hockey.

 

[driller1]

that's already been covered, please go re-read the whole conversation.

Great argument. I've been in the whole thread. I've heard a lot of subjective statements like "Kopitar is overpaid for his first 2 years of his contract". I put numbers behind why I don't think he was overpaid. You just dodge and evade. Nice.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

Great argument. I've been in the whole thread. I've heard a lot of subjective statements like "Kopitar is overpaid for his first 2 years of his contract". I put numbers behind why I don't think he was overpaid. You just dodge and evade. Nice.

I can't help it if you don't want to go back and read. The answer is there if you choose to look for it.

 

[Minor Boarding]

That wasn't the point. The point that was that Kopitar was overpaid for the first couple of years of his contracts. Examples were cited of players who were better and earning less. It has since evolved in to nitpicking over everything but that.
It was never stated that there were not overpaid players at the time and I only see your statement as an attempt at deflecting the original topic.

And we disagree with you.

Example: Toffoli signed a 2 year deal - Lombardi didn't buy any UFA years so the contract is lower then it would be if he did buy UFA years..
It's called a "CONTRACT TERM". You can't just compare 2-3year, 5year and 7year contracts like they have the same business basis.


I am not going into the Sedin package reasoning (the cap hat to be lover if the brothers wanted to stay on the same Nucks team)...

 

[Captain Mittens*]

And we disagree with you.

Example: Toffoli signed a 2 year deal - Lombardi didn't buy any UFA years so the contract is lower then it would be if he did buy UFA years..
It's called a "CONTRACT TERM". You can't just compare 2-3year, 5year and 7year contracts like they have the same business basis.


I am not going into the Sedin package reasoning (the cap hat to be lover if the brothers wanted to stay on the same Nucks team)...

and that is your decision....Merry Christmas

 

[driller1]

I can't help it if you don't want to go back and read. The answer is there if you choose to look for it.

I can't help you if you can't form a compelling argument backed with research instead of sweeping subjective generalizations.

 

[Minor Boarding]

There is no reason to move Carter/Quick/Muzzin ETC. If Kopitar's deal doesn't get done

Player like Kempe/Zykov/Gravel, are on the cusp of making the NHL team.

For all anyone knows Kempe could turn out to be Kopitar lite, he certainly has the skill set, not as big as Kopi, but faster.

Kempe is also playing more Center this year. Seriously, Kempe is the most skilled hockey player, since the Kings drafted Doughty/Kopitar. Even more skilled than Toffoli. Kempe also is not going to be spending some long burn in the AHL. He probably makes the Kings roster out of camp next season.

Kopitar leaves a big hole, but it's not going to turn the Kings into the EDM Oilers. The Kings system, and Defense/Quick is just too good. Would the Kings be cup contenders ? No, not till someone filled the production hole.

Even with Kopitar, the Kings still have holes on the roster, so it will always be that way with the Salary cap. The 2012 team was about as close a complete team you can get. It will probably never happen again.

Disagree on this. Banking on Kempe/Zykov(I think he will bust or be a marginal bottom 6 player) to even produce a nickel out of Kopitars production isn't reasonable. Shore and Pearson showed way more offensive firepower at the AHL level and have not yet shown they will be able to translate that to the NHL.
And Kempe is mainly playing wing now.
I love how you take Kopitars production and matchups (selke nominated top line forward) for something that is easy to replace...
The system is nice IF you have players that can execute it...

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

As Damacles said earlier, time to cut out the personal shots. This thread is on its last legs and will be closed until there's substantial news if we can't disagree civilly.

 

[KINGS17]

Ok, in your other post you are mentioning trading Brown and Gaborik as pie in the sky. I'll buy that description on Brown but Gaborik is coming off a 27 goal season and is starting to heat up now. I'm pretty sure I can count on one hand (maybe two) how many Kings have done that in the past 15 years. I think he is movable if at the very least as a salary dump where the Kings get a late draft pick back. I think that is conservative to be honest.

But is the idea of trading Brown and/or Gaborik any more pie in the sky than assuming 1) the Kings will get an adequate replacement to center the 2nd line via trade of Kopitar 2) assuming a player who has never played an NHL game will also help offset that void? Then what happens if the your magical 2nd line center and Kempe keep the Kings competitive but not a threat to win a Cup over the next 2 or 3 years? Then do we move Doughty and Carter and start over?

I honestly believe that if the Kings move Kopitar, they ought to just blow the whole thing up. If the Kings aren't competitive over the next 3 or 4 years, Doughty will probably pack up and leave. Might as well move him now while he is under contract and could get a fat return.

I think you are in denial that a deal isn't impending and that DL is even remotely considering a trade. Everyone's second coming of DL even says this:



I think your perspective of Kopitar is out of line with what the organization thinks of him.

I think if the Kings organization really felt that Kopitar was worth an 8 year contract at an AAV of $9.75M then he would have already been re-signed.

My premise is that the Kings will lose the requisite depth on the wings and on the blueline required to be competitive if Kopitar is signed for a crazy AAV.

I'll agree with you on somewhat that Gaborik may have some trade value, but I think the probability of getting a young 2C for Kopitar in a trade is far more likely. I believe any team acquiring Kopitar would do so with the intent of re-signing him for 8 years. The acquiring team would know his price.

 

[Rusty Batch]

As Damacles said earlier, time to cut out the personal shots. This thread is on its last legs and will be closed until there's substantial news if we can't disagree civilly.

It really should be closed. It's been hijacked by a couple people for months now that are repeating the same comments over and over. Id like to view this thread for kopitar contract updates, not just to check in on a stale argument.

 

[KINGS17]

It really should be closed. It's been hijacked by a couple people for months now that are repeating the same comments over and over. Id like to view this thread for kopitar contract updates, not just to check in on a stale argument.

It hasn't been hijacked, you just don't agree with the opinions of some people.

The Kopitar situation is something that will impact the Kings organization for the next decade and it should be able to be discussed without "drive by" comments.

There are a lot of sub-topics within this subject including Kopitar's production going forward and it's relative value as well as what his value might be to other teams. No reason not to talk about.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

I think if the Kings organization really felt that Kopitar was worth an 8 year contract at an AAV of $9.75M then he would have already been re-signed.

More plausible that if the Kings organization really felt that Kopitar was worth an 8 year contract at an AAV of $9.75M then they should be working to sign him for less first. Hence the negotiation.

 

[Rusty Batch]

It hasn't been hijacked, you just don't agree with the opinions of some people.

The Kopitar situation is something that will impact the Kings organization for the next decade and it should be able to be discussed without "drive by" comments.

There are a lot of sub-topics within this subject including Kopitar's production going forward and it's relative value as well as what his value might be to other teams. No reason not to talk about.

I understand your point of view. It has been expressed by you very frequently. But I would like to come to this thread to read about contract negotiation updates. Not to catch up on the Kings17 vs the rest of the world argument.

 

[KINGS17]

More plausible that if the Kings organization really felt that Kopitar was worth an 8 year contract at an AAV of $9.75M then they should be working to sign him for less first. Hence the negotiation.

Okay sure, but if 8 x 9.75 has already been offered as suggested in some of the lastest media reports, I think Kopitar would have signed it. He's being foolish if that was offered and he didn't sign it.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

If DL can get out of this with under a 9 mil AAV, he needs to be cast as The Wiz in the next remake.

 

[KINGS17]

I understand your point of view. It has been expressed by you very frequently. But I would like to come to this thread to read about contract negotiation updates. Not to catch up on the Kings17 vs the rest of the world argument.

Except it's not me vs the rest of the world. There are many posters that don't agree with your opinion on this. I don't need to name them as you have already read the thread and know that to be true.

You don't have to read anything that upsets you. There are plenty of other threads. I would imagine if there was some big breaking news that the title of the thread would change. I don't understand why you feel the need to have the conversation shut down. Bottom line it's probably the most important contract Dean will do in the immediate future and it should be able to be discussed.

See also:

http://lakingsnews.com/2015/05/04/10-million-dollars-aav-in-a-long-term-contract/

 

[Captain Mittens*]

it's probably the most important contract Dean will do in the immediate future and it should be able to be discussed.

It'll be the most important until 2018 when they start working on Doughty's

 

[damacles1156]

I understand your point of view. It has been expressed by you very frequently. But I would like to come to this thread to read about contract negotiation updates. Not to catch up on the Kings17 vs the rest of the world argument.

People can discuss in here, about all aspects of Kopitar's production, his contract and his center spot moving forward.

Or would you like that type of discussion to spill all over, into every other thread ? Here it is consolidated. It will be allowed in this thread provided you folks, can remain civil.

 

[damacles1156]

Disagree on this. Banking on Kempe/Zykov(I think he will bust or be a marginal bottom 6 player) to even produce a nickel out of Kopitars production isn't reasonable. Shore and Pearson showed way more offensive firepower at the AHL level and have not yet shown they will be able to translate that to the NHL.
And Kempe is mainly playing wing now.
I love how you take Kopitars production and matchups (selke nominated top line forward) for something that is easy to replace...
The system is nice IF you have players that can execute it...

No one said they would replace Kopitars production, if you read my post at all.

You would see, I even mentioned that.

 

[KINGS17]

It'll be the most important until 2018 when they start working on Doughty's

Agreed. Doughty is already the Kings best player. Yet another reason to not give Kopitar a contract with a crazy AAV, because Doughty will want and should get more than Kopitar.

 

[Rusty Batch]

People can discuss in here, about all aspects of Kopitar's production, his contract and his center spot moving forward.

Or would you like that type of discussion to spill all over, into every other thread ? Here it is consolidated. It will be allowed in this thread provided you folks, can remain civil.

I'd just like to not have 80% of the thread postings be about 1 person fighting with everyone. It becomes silly at a certain point. But you guys make those decisions.

 

[Little Psycho]

I'd just like to not have 80% of the thread postings be about 1 person fighting with everyone. It becomes silly at a certain point. But you guys make those decisions.

I get what you mean. I've been using the Block button lately. Helps big time.

 

[damacles1156]

I'd just like to not have 80% of the thread postings be about 1 person fighting with everyone. It becomes silly at a certain point. But you guys make those decisions.

There is an ignore feature, built into this message board.

 

[mrkolice]

a view from slovenia: i'm having fun about how much havoc is generated here (in north america and among lak fans) about kopi's contract. it looks like a medieval religious war. and it's a bit of a cultural shock trying to understand why.

look, lak will be fine, and kopi will be fine, if they sign or if they don't sign. and very probably they will sign, 99% signed is the public sentiment here.

anyhow, no worries on slovenian forums about it. fans are glad if kopi scores or if lak wins, and if both happens, twice the joy. enjoy the games, cheerz!