What wrong with "Mitch'in" Marner?

[StreetHawk]

Marner has to figure out a way to win puck battles. If he’s not going to do it with size has to be with quickness, determination, smart stick, body positioning, etc. Lost way too many puck battles.

 

[TheNumber4]

All Hail God Emperor Mitch Marner

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

The huge pause he takes to really think about his words right before he says it too. This guy is a loser.

 

[FerrisRox]

Because someone was saying Marner wasn't effective based on his size in the playoffs. I gave a player that has an identical height and same weight.

Okay, well I wasn't that person. In fact, I was the person saying that literally thousands of NHLers that size have been effective playoff performers.

 

[ref19]

He's let the fact that he's got the biggest wrench in the league get to his head. He needs to pick it up in he playoffs.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Mitch wants to remain a Leaf long term.

 

[Phil McKraken]

Marner and Nylander are exempt from what I am about to say because they are Canadian

All this time he's been playing us like a fiddle.

All this

 

[Leaf Fans]

All Hail God Emperor Mitch Marner

Lol.

 

[The Macho King]

I really don't understand why Marner gets all of the criticism and not Matthews, Nylander, and Tavares as well.

They have *all* disappointed. One of them is clearly being set out as the scapegoat though.

 

[StreetHawk]

I really don't understand why Marner gets all of the criticism and not Matthews, Nylander, and Tavares as well.

They have *all* disappointed. One of them is clearly being set out as the scapegoat though.

Quick guess is that Matthews/Nylander are signed long term. Both Tavares and Marner have a year left, but Marner is the one whom you can probably move off given he would get another large contract somewhere. As in, he'd accept a trade to secure that 8th year on the next contract. Tavares would have to take a pay cut of like 25% or larger on his next deal and would be well under the max term, so he'd just sit on his NMC.

 

[EastVillageBlues]

Marner and Nylander are exempt from what I am about to say because they are Canadian, but I am starting to wonder if there is something wrong with USA hockey and the way they develop players. The recent crop of USA superstars from the past 5+ years have been extremely soft and unable to play in tight checking games.

Matthews best example. Zegras. Caufield. All 3 Hughes brothers want no part of tight checking games. I mean there will always be some who can play but look at Canada's superstars and you have to start wondering what USA hockey is doing wrong?

Look at Bedard. I mean the kid is legit. He got his jaw broken and was back and playing with heart. I see this often in midgets and junior hockey as well when comparing top Canadians to top Americans.

Is there something wrong with our development model or are they just preparing players for the future NHL that will be completely devoid of hitting? Is skill above all else a detriment in the NHL game?

I think you are right to a point, but tight checking at the end does not win games, at least in terms of your high skilled guys. They should be doing what they are paid to do, generate scoring chances.

The problem with Matthews is just that he disappears in most big games. He is perfectly capable of putting up huge number of goals during the regular season, often against weak opponents and games of lesser meaning. But he wilts away in most games where much is on the line. Same as with Marner and others actually, definitely a US specific thing.

When I watched Tarasenko come into the league, he couldn't recognize his own goal line from the center line, and was certainly a liability in his own end. But would I trade him for the 2023 version of Tarasenko that was actually defensively responsible and above average in his own zone? Absolutely not, he was simply an explosive player in his younger years, and tends to step up in big moments when others falter. As a 2nd or 3rd year player, he was often our most lethal offensive player in any playoff game, and in 2018-2019, he almost single handedly (I'm exaggerate just a bit) pulled us into a 10 game winning streak, and from last place into a playoff spot. That's what I am talking about.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I really don't understand why Marner gets all of the criticism and not Matthews, Nylander, and Tavares as well.

They have *all* disappointed. One of them is clearly being set out as the scapegoat though.

Because they haven't all disappointed to the same degree. Marner is the worst. It's not close.

 

[The Macho King]

Because they haven't all disappointed to the same degree. Marner is the worst. It's not close.

I don't buy that. Their PPG are nearly identical (Tavares' may be lower?). Nylander has numerous notable plays of him bailing out against physical contact. Matthews scores goals at the rate of a decent first liner at best as opposed to the best goal scorer of a generation.

Marner has always gotten an extra helping of shit. Some of it is probably the contract stuff, some of it is probably the "his dad is a lot" stuff, but he's not notably worse than the others.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Marner and Nylander are exempt from what I am about to say because they are Canadian, but I am starting to wonder if there is something wrong with USA hockey and the way they develop players. The recent crop of USA superstars from the past 5+ years have been extremely soft and unable to play in tight checking games.

Matthews best example. Zegras. Caufield. All 3 Hughes brothers want no part of tight checking games. I mean there will always be some who can play but look at Canada's superstars and you have to start wondering what USA hockey is doing wrong?

Look at Bedard. I mean the kid is legit. He got his jaw broken and was back and playing with heart. I see this often in midgets and junior hockey as well when comparing top Canadians to top Americans.

Is there something wrong with our development model or are they just preparing players for the future NHL that will be completely devoid of hitting? Is skill above all else a detriment in the NHL game?

There's an issue in general with more and more North American hockey players just playing hockey year round. Fewer playing football & lacrosse growing up, 2 sports that toughen you up, that give you the bite/edge you need for the playoffs.

Not sure if Mitch played anything competitively growing up, but he certainly doesn't have the football mentality out there.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

The fact that he said this and was serious about it makes the Leafs latest collapse all the more satisfying.

You're not a god, you perpetual man-baby loser.

 

[Chaos2k7]

Mitch wants to remain a Leaf long term.

Of course he does he has been bending the organization over for years, nowhere else would he be paid like he is. And they are liable to do it again. All of them are overpaid, unless you just want to chase regular season records then call it a summer.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

Even now you Leafs fans remain defiant...in the presence of a god!

It is not the playoff success they fear...it is his divine power.

 

[NyQuil]

 

[Iggys Dome]

This guy is such a douche holy shit

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Because they haven't all disappointed to the same degree. Marner is the worst. It's not close.

Tavares is the worst. It's not even close.

Player A - 57 GP, 11 G, 39 A, 50 PTs, +10
Player B - 38 GP, 12 G, 12 A, 24 Pts, -9

You can't sit here and justify that Player B has been superior to Player A. There's simply no objective argument for it.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Tavares is the worst. It's not even close.

Player A - 57 GP, 11 G, 39 A, 50 PTs, +10
Player B - 38 GP, 12 G, 12 A, 24 Pts, -9

You can't sit here and justify that Player B has been superior to Player A. There's simply no objective argument for it.

Yeah Tavares has been bad. But at least he scores goals and has actually done it at key moments.

Its funny because he basically come up to the Leafs out of nowhere and said ‘sign me.’ No assets had to be given up… who’s going to say no?

But the ripple effect has been brutal. First it skewed all the salaries because the younger players got greedy right away. Then it wound up that you had four guys making half the cap.

And even then it might’ve worked but they didn’t score. And then Tavares got hurt and was never the same…

If you’re going to invest that much cash in four forwards and your biggest problem is that you can’t score? That’s a serious problem man.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I don't buy that. Their PPG are nearly identical (Tavares' may be lower?). Nylander has numerous notable plays of him bailing out against physical contact. Matthews scores goals at the rate of a decent first liner at best as opposed to the best goal scorer of a generation.

Marner has always gotten an extra helping of shit. Some of it is probably the contract stuff, some of it is probably the "his dad is a lot" stuff, but he's not notably worse than the others.

Marner disappears completely in games 5 and on. And his goals drop by about half.

Matthews is an underperformed but he’s much better than Marner.

 

[NVious]

Marner disappears completely in games 5 and on. And his goals drop by about half.

Matthews is an underperformed but he’s much better than Marner.

He is actually not

1st to 32 g/60 season to post season
10g in last 25 elimination games (70 goal scorer turns into a 30 goal scorer)
0 goals in his 6 game 7s

Their dropoffs are both astronomical relative to their salaries.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yeah Tavares has been bad. But at least he scores goals and has actually done it at key moments.

He's scored 1 extra goal during his Leafs tenure. Yes, in less games. But considering the fact Marner is a playmaker and Tavares is a goal scorer, that's not exactly a great gap in goal scoring since that's literally the only thing he's better than Marner in.

Also, yes he scored that one OT goal for them to win the series, but that's like saying someone like Chris Kunitz was more valuable to the Penguins' 2017 run than Crosby because Kunitz scored the OT winner in Game 7 versus Ottawa to get them to the finals.

One goal doesn't negate multiple games of being trash.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He is actually not

1st to 32 g/60 season to post season
10g in last 25 elimination games (70 goal scorer turns into a 30 goal scorer)
0 goals in his 6 game 7s

Their dropoffs are both astronomical relative to their salaries.

He’s not a 70 goal scorer over his career. Come on man.

After his career year he's a 54/82 goal scorer. In the playoffs he's 35/82. So, like I said... an underperformer.

Marner falls to 16/82 in the playoffs. That's absolutely brutal for a player of his talents.