Speculation: What would you pay Larkin on an extension?

[DTR]

Do people realize that Larkin's numbers go up if others on the team also score. He has never even had 1 guy put up anywhere near 82 pts in a season or actual ppg, not pace, but actual performance. He may not be a top tier guy, but he also doesn't play with top tier guys. Nazem Kadri put up 87 pts last year (well above his norm), because he got to play on a really good team. Are you really telling me that near PPG from Larkin the past 2 seasons isn't getting more pts with at least one linemate who puts up at least 80 pts alongside him and a blueliner who can manage more than 30ish pts???

Larkin's best linemates for the most part have been Mantha, 48 pt career high, Bertuzzi 62 pt career high, and on defence it is Seider with one 50 pt season and before that, 31-38 pts from Hronek. Raymond has 1 season of 57 pts which was great for a rookie, but isn't great when talking about high pt totals.

I think it is completely within the realm if he plays 70 games a season to put up 80-85 pts with wingers and defence who also help score. Right now we are a one line team, which also makes it extremely easy to shut us down as they put their top guys against Larkin and because there is very little else to be worried about doing serious damage. That is more than fine to be part of a championship team. When Yzerman finally won the Cup, he did so during his lowest pt totals ever. Point is, one guy can't lead a team to the Cup or being competitive.



Lindstrom plays right now! I doubt you pay that for insurance now.

I agree with you that Larkin hasn’t exactly played with an elite supporting cast, but playing devils advocate, if you’re paying Larkin close to 9 per year the expectation should be for him to raise the point totals of the guys next to him, not need better players to raise Larkin’s stats.

 

[Holden Caufield]

That is why our GM is playing hardball and not signing him right now.

Jesus, Yzerman is doing what you all want and you’re still complaining. They’re also apparently seriously considering moving on from other guys who will want raises too… so what the hell is your complaints?

I would like to file a complaint against all the complaints….

 

[SirloinUB]

No one should ever look at % of cap limit to negotiate contracts.
That's NOT a legal tender, dollar amount is, for services rendered.
Larkin's value doesn't increase if the cap increases, that's just crazy it's even discussed.

That’s exactly how it works.

 

[SirloinUB]

Larkin at 9 million would be the 36th highest paid player next season. That does not include pending UFAs like Pastrnak, Meier, Horvat, Bratt, & PLD.

Players like Matthews, Stamkos, Aho, Pettersson, Nylander, Hellebyuck, Sheifele, Beniers, Dahlin, Devon Toews plus other young players are all on expiring contracts during the 23-24 season.

A $9 million AAV could very well have Larkin as the 40th highest paid player at the start of the 23- 24 season. If we open that up to the 24-25 season and include contracts in the 8.5 range (cause who really gives a shit about $500K) Larkin would be among the top 65 highest paid players in the league.


Some of you act like people are advocating for a 12 million contract with this overpay nonsense.

 

[Ezekial]

When Lindstrom played hockey my insurance was 30 $ month for entire family

This just reminds me how much money I waste on health insurance every month. I am one of those people that never goes to the doctor out of sheer laziness, but the fear of something terrible happening and not having good insurance outweighs that.

I haven't gone to the doctor in like 5 years.

 

[norrisnick]

This just reminds me how much money I waste on health insurance every month. I am one of those people that never goes to the doctor out of sheer laziness, but the fear of something terrible happening and not having good insurance outweighs that.

I haven't gone to the doctor in like 5 years.

You a hypochondriac?

Haven't gone in ~11...

 

[WF19]

At this point I'd tell Larkin he is getting dealt to the highest bidder and he will get his money come July first and re up with the Wings to get some nice assets. Pipe dream I know but It is an option.

 

[Shaman464]

Larkin at 9 million would be the 36th highest paid player next season. That does not include pending UFAs like Pastrnak, Meier, Horvat, Bratt, & PLD.

Players like Matthews, Stamkos, Aho, Pettersson, Nylander, Hellebyuck, Sheifele, Beniers, Dahlin, Devon Toews plus other young players are all on expiring contracts during the 23-24 season.

A $9 million AAV could very well have Larkin as the 40th highest paid player at the start of the 23- 24 season. If we open that up to the 24-25 season and include contracts in the 8.5 range (cause who really gives a shit about $500K) Larkin would be among the top 65 highest paid players in the league.


Some of you act like people are advocating for a 12 million contract with this overpay nonsense.

40th best paid player for a guy having a hard time being in the top 60 in the league. Sounds like an overpayment, especially because he can sign for 8 years in Detroit which would likely make him more money over the life of the contract than a 7 year contract plus his first year of his next contract at 34 even if he's paid a bit more per year on the 7 year contract. That 8th year of big money is something you all forget because by the time he's 34 he very likely won't be getting another big dollar contract.

Pay him 8 million and send him a nice card reminding him he's getting a contract that will put him in the 0.01% of top income earners in the world all while playing a game.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

40th best paid player for a guy having a hard time being in the top 60 in the league. Sounds like an overpayment, especially because he can sign for 8 years in Detroit which would likely make him more money over the life of the contract than a 7 year contract plus his first year of his next contract at 34 even if he's paid a bit more per year on the 7 year contract. That 8th year of big money is something you all forget because by the time he's 34 he very likely won't be getting another big dollar contract.

Pay him 8 million and send him a nice card reminding him he's getting a contract that will put him in the 0.01% of top income earners in the world all while playing a game.

And if I’m Pat Brisson and Dylan Larkin, I tell you to shove your patronizing card up your ass with prejudice. Like holy shit that would go over like a lead balloon.

 

[Shaman464]

And if I’m Pat Brisson and Dylan Larkin, I tell you to shove your patronizing card up your ass with prejudice. Like holy shit that would go over like a lead balloon.

It might be patronizing from Yzerman, but the problems of pro athletes not being slightly more crazy rich isn't a problem a lot of us can relate to. In the end whether he gets 5 million or 10 million, by the end of his contract he will have more money than most of us will ever earn in our lives. So I am more sympathetic with Yzerman if only because I couldn't give a shit if Larkin is slightly richer and less money to Larkin means more cap room.

 

[norrisnick]

It might be patronizing from Yzerman, but the problems of pro athletes not being slightly more crazy rich isn't a problem a lot of us can relate to. In the end whether he gets 5 million or 10 million, by the end of his contract he will have more money than most of us will ever earn in our lives. So I am more sympathetic with Yzerman if only because I couldn't give a shit if Larkin is slightly richer and less money to Larkin means more cap room.

Wanna take a stab at how much money Yzerman, and more importantly Ilitch has?

 

[Oddbob]

Kadri played on that team for 3 years and had one year above his average output, it wasn't just him playing for a good team, it was a confluence of factors. And the whole "Larkin would be better if he was surrounded by elite players" is exactly why he's a 2nd line player. The best thing for him and the team is for him to be further down the lineup where he can play against weaker matchups and doesn't need to sponge off of other players to finally barely qualify as a first line center.

I didn't say elite, I said better. He has played with 2nd liners at best his whole career. 62 pts from Bertuzzi not 1st line totals, and neither was 57 from Raymond.

 

[Oddbob]

I agree with you that Larkin hasn’t exactly played with an elite supporting cast, but playing devils advocate, if you’re paying Larkin close to 9 per year the expectation should be for him to raise the point totals of the guys next to him, not need better players to raise Larkin’s stats.

Who says he hasn't raised the pt totals of his linemates? The only line that scores regularly is any line that has Larkin on it. Whenever Larkin is out, we have no consistent scoring. Also, look at Kubalik as an example had a hot start playing with Larkin, gets taken away from Larkin and he has been super cold.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

It might be patronizing from Yzerman, but the problems of pro athletes not being slightly more crazy rich isn't a problem a lot of us can relate to. In the end whether he gets 5 million or 10 million, by the end of his contract he will have more money than most of us will ever earn in our lives. So I am more sympathetic with Yzerman if only because I couldn't give a shit if Larkin is slightly richer and less money to Larkin means more cap room.

Why on earth are you sympathetic to either party if you want to think this way? Why do you care about millionaires or billionaires? If you're so upset that a player is going to make as much money as you can, you should probably not support the league in a way that lets them pay this much to guys.

Literally the only thing I care about is that if you pay Larkin 10M, it means that you'll have other guys wanting more money in the near future and you'll eventually have to deal away one or more pieces because you're paying too much. If there wasn't a salary cap, pay whatever the hell you want to pay.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I agree with you that Larkin hasn’t exactly played with an elite supporting cast, but playing devils advocate, if you’re paying Larkin close to 9 per year the expectation should be for him to raise the point totals of the guys next to him, not need better players to raise Larkin’s stats.

We don't have much evidence that Larkin doesn't raise the totals of those around him. It's not like Anthony Mantha went to Washington and completely unlocked his potential when he got Nick Bäckström as his center. Lucas Raymond doesn't produce incredible numbers away from Larkin.

Fact is that the vast majority of good players do not produce unless they have other good players to play with. The exceptions are mainly McDavid level talents.

 

[Henkka]

Literally the only thing I care about is that if you pay Larkin 10M, it means that you'll have other guys wanting more money in the near future and you'll eventually have to deal away one or more pieces because you're paying too much. If there wasn't a salary cap, pay whatever the hell you want to pay.

This is the thing. Getting Larkin takin a pay cut, he would create the biggest element of making future winning possible. Takin less, it will put a pressure for every other to take less, and then we'll have a cap structure like Tampa had, making long-term success possible. Always underpaid guys somewhere on the roster, which will create great depth.

Term is another thing to control this, I think we don't see 8-year deal because something like 7-years will cut one +110M cap year off from the end. Etc. Yzerman knows these things. He'll find his bargains from here and there.

 

[Ezekial]

You a hypochondriac?

Haven't gone in ~11...

Well, last time I had a warning sign so bad that my hand was forced and the next day I'm taking anesthesia and having a camera put inside me.

 

[Shaman464]

Why on earth are you sympathetic to either party if you want to think this way? Why do you care about millionaires or billionaires? If you're so upset that a player is going to make as much money as you can, you should probably not support the league in a way that lets them pay this much to guys.

Literally the only thing I care about is that if you pay Larkin 10M, it means that you'll have other guys wanting more money in the near future and you'll eventually have to deal away one or more pieces because you're paying too much. If there wasn't a salary cap, pay whatever the hell you want to pay.

Money wise I’m not sympathetic to either side. So my only concern is cap flexibility. While that would favor the ownership it really favors the team, as many teams get torpedoed by their cap situation long before they’re ready to take the next step.

 

[Henkka]

So Larkin-side is asking 9M and Yzerman-side is offering 8M ?

Is this confirmed somewhere? Some of my friends talk about these like legit numbers.

 

[SirloinUB]

So Larkin-side is asking 9M and Yzerman-side is offering 8M ?

Is this confirmed somewhere? Some of my friends talk about these like legit numbers.

There is a lot of cross reporting but I believe the most tangible numbers I have seen thrown around were 8 and 9 Million but originated from David Pagnotta and the 4th period. Not sure how credible that is.

 

[Perfect Human]

Interested to see if Horvat re-signs on the Island. I have to imagine his dollar value will impact Larkin's negotiation.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

So Larkin-side is asking 9M and Yzerman-side is offering 8M ?

Is this confirmed somewhere? Some of my friends talk about these like legit numbers.

Someone posted this earlier in here.

What’s the most likely outcome in Red Wings-Dylan Larkin contract talks?

The sides are less than $1 million apart on an eight-year extension.

www.mlive.com

 

[Frk It]

Anyone else think it's weird to have a stand-off over 1M?

Especially with the amount of cap space we have and the lack of quality centers we have?

 

[norrisnick]

Anyone else think it's weird to have a stand-off over 1M?

Especially with the amount of cap space we have and the lack of quality centers we have?

It's a staring contest. One of them will blink eventually.

 

[Puck5]

Anyone else think it's weird to have a stand-off over 1M?

Especially with the amount of cap space we have and the lack of quality centers we have?

It''s not really about Larkins contract in a vacuum, it''s about how it effects all the contracts coming after. If the Michigan guy, the captain, wont take a discount to stay? Then netiher will Raymond nor Seider, etc. etc. You can;t build a team in the cap era with everyone getting market value.