Speculation: What would you pay Larkin on an extension?

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If you find those contracts and the context comparable, then I'd say you also find comparing apples and oranges a fruitful endeavor.

You said it was good to finally have a hardball playing GM. That is a new thing with Larkin.

Didn’t exist 7 months ago. Not saying those were Abdelkader bad, but they were top of the market deals.
No hardline was drawn to be sure.
 
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What if I told you they already did...


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To turn him into this.
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Some of you must be masochists with how eager your are to cast aside our best player.

If we don’t find away to keep Larkin the rebuild is extended by at least 5 years
Yes but if that gives us the best to win cups that's all I care about. Im not interested in a half measure just to keep fans happy. Overpaying Larkin and showing that you will cave to players demands is a recipe for metricity at best.
 
Yes but if that gives us the best to win cups that's all I care about. Im not interested in a half measure just to keep fans happy. Overpaying Larkin and showing that you will cave to players demands is a recipe for metricity at best.

For the love of f***…. When has Yzerman capitulated to players?

He dealt MSL, he held onto Drouin until a good deal could be made, he did this dance with a much better partner in Stamkos.

Chiarot and Copp weren’t “top of market” deals. Those are simply the contracts you pay to sign a top 4D and top 6F. The reason why the deal isn’t done right now is because he doesn’t want to overpay.

Dylan Larkin is the best player on the Detroit Red Wings and you’d see his stats be better if he were dealt to a team like Boston. You’d be like “why the hell did we want to run that guy out of town?”

They’re going to pay him a ton because he’s great at hockey, not because he’s a hometown guy
 
Yes but if that gives us the best to win cups that's all I care about. Im not interested in a half measure just to keep fans happy. Overpaying Larkin and showing that you will cave to players demands is a recipe for metricity at best.
1) there is a pretty wide range between "caving to a players demands" and a good faith negotiation with your best player.

2) My comment about extending the rebuild by 5 years is probably an understatement if we are moving on from Larkin and have zero centers at that level.
 
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For the love of f***…. When has Yzerman capitulated to players?

He dealt MSL, he held onto Drouin until a good deal could be made, he did this dance with a much better partner in Stamkos.

Chiarot and Copp weren’t “top of market” deals. Those are simply the contracts you pay to sign a top 4D and top 6F. The reason why the deal isn’t done right now is because he doesn’t want to overpay.

Dylan Larkin is the best player on the Detroit Red Wings and you’d see his stats be better if he were dealt to a team like Boston. You’d be like “why the hell did we want to run that guy out of town?”

They’re going to pay him a ton because he’s great at hockey, not because he’s a hometown guy
You ok bud, I never said that Yzerman has capitulated. I said he would set a bad precedent in detroit, for upcoming negotiations.

Us fans have to let go of what Steve did in Tampa. Thats a completely different organization in a state with a completely different income tax rate.

ive never commented on chiarot or copp deals. Im not particular upset with either one.

I'm don't care about the best player on a team that is going nowhere. Yes he'll do better on a better team, that still doesnt change the wings reality.

Get around 8 million a year to play hockey is still a ton of money. To me it's disappointing that Larkin doesnt trust steve going out and turning the team into a winner.
 
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1) there is a pretty wide range between "caving to a players demands" and a good faith negotiation with your best player.

2) My comment about extending the rebuild by 5 years is probably an understatement if we are moving on from Larkin and have zero centers at that level.
I'm not concerned about leaving the rebuild. Im more concerned with building a team that can win cup(s). What's the point of leaving the "rebuild" just to have a purgatory team that has no chance of winning and no chance of adding the talent required to get to the next level.

Yzerman has the job security to build the roster in his vision and not go chasing players.
 
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You ok bud, I never said that Yzerman has capitulated. I said he would set a bad precedent in detroit, for upcoming negotiations.

Us fans have to let go of what Steve did in Tampa. Thats a completely different organization in a state with a completely different income tax rate.

ive never commented on chiarot or copp deals. Im not particular upset with either one.

I'm don't care about the best player on a team that is going nowhere. Yes he'll do better on a better team, that still doesnt change the wings reality.

Get around 8 million a year to play hockey is still a ton of money. To me it's disappointing that Larkin doesnt trust steve going out and turning the team into a winner.

What. The damn point of what I said is that Yzerman has a running history of digging in his heels and not moving off his number or his value.

I'm not saying he should magically get ultra-deals for everyone... but when you have an executive that pretty much exclusively plays hardball with his players... he's not going to all of a sudden bend over and take it in future negotiations. Yzerman, being a superstar player for 20 years who received a pretty blessed position in seeing executive activity while he was playing, has shown a pretty good proclivity to understanding what young leaders are looking for. Stammer stuck in Tampa because he could get close to total dollars based off the 8 years and Yzerman knew Stamkos liked the area, the team, and the home feeling.

Larkin's activities right now are not anywhere near indicative of "not trusting that he'll go out and build a winner". 8M is the barest of minimums that his contract should be. Anything starting with a 7 is an insult (judging that he had a 5x6.1M that ate up some RFA years and this is his first full UFA deal).

No, what "us fans" need to do is understand the market for players and the effects of UFA/RFA, the impact of what that extra year that Detroit can give Larkin over other teams, and that while 8M is a lot of money annually, it's also kind of the barest minimum that a guy of Larkin's stature is going to get. Like if the Wings sign him to 8x8, that's a hometown discount.... that is not an overpayment. What we need to understand is that the team isn't looking to jettison pieces at the first sign of "oh god, he might leave for nothing!"

It's more disappointing that Larkin has been a legitimate 1C and people are willing to boot him out the door because he has the f***in temerity to ask for 9M annually.
 
What. The damn point of what I said is that Yzerman has a running history of digging in his heels and not moving off his number or his value.

I'm not saying he should magically get ultra-deals for everyone... but when you have an executive that pretty much exclusively plays hardball with his players... he's not going to all of a sudden bend over and take it in future negotiations. Yzerman, being a superstar player for 20 years who received a pretty blessed position in seeing executive activity while he was playing, has shown a pretty good proclivity to understanding what young leaders are looking for. Stammer stuck in Tampa because he could get close to total dollars based off the 8 years and Yzerman knew Stamkos liked the area, the team, and the home feeling.

Larkin's activities right now are not anywhere near indicative of "not trusting that he'll go out and build a winner". 8M is the barest of minimums that his contract should be. Anything starting with a 7 is an insult (judging that he had a 5x6.1M that ate up some RFA years and this is his first full UFA deal).

No, what "us fans" need to do is understand the market for players and the effects of UFA/RFA, the impact of what that extra year that Detroit can give Larkin over other teams, and that while 8M is a lot of money annually, it's also kind of the barest minimum that a guy of Larkin's stature is going to get. Like if the Wings sign him to 8x8, that's a hometown discount.... that is not an overpayment. What we need to understand is that the team isn't looking to jettison pieces at the first sign of "oh god, he might leave for nothing!"

It's more disappointing that Larkin has been a legitimate 1C and people are willing to boot him out the door because he has the f***in temerity to ask for 9M annually.

I agree with all of your take here except the bolded. Larkin is a 1C on a bad team, a QUESTIONABLE 1C on a playoff team, and a 2C on a contender. And from everything that has been leaking out over the last week or so, that is how the Wings and most around the league view him.
 
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I'm not concerned about leaving the rebuild. Im more concerned with building a team that can win cup(s). What's the point of leaving the "rebuild" just to have a purgatory team that has no chance of winning and no chance of adding the talent required to get to the next level.

Yzerman has the job security to build the roster in his vision and not go chasing players.

The path to competing for cups is a lot more clear with one top 6 center than with zero top 6 centers.
 
You said it was good to finally have a hardball playing GM. That is a new thing with Larkin.

Didn’t exist 7 months ago. Not saying those were Abdelkader bad, but they were top of the market deals.
No hardline was drawn to be sure.
That's free agency. Every GM pays in free agency. You play any "hardball" and you simply don't get the player. The players have all the leverage. That's not really comparable to negotiating with your own players.
 
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That's free agency. Every GM pays in free agency. You play any "hardball" and you simply don't get the player. The players have all the leverage. That's not really comparable to negotiating with your own players.
Totally different ballgame, like you said.
 
Sign Larkin for 8x8.7 million as our 1a)
Sign Horvat as UFA for 7x8 million as our 1b)
Bring up Kasper as ELC 3C, move Copp to wing
Trade Bertuzzi for depth RHD and draft pick. pray Vrana finds his game.

Vrana-Larkin-Raymond
Berggren - Horvat - Perron
Kubalik - Kasper - Copp
Veleno - Rasmussen - Fabbri/Soderblom

Walman - Seider
Maatta - Hronek
Chiarot - Durzi/whoever
 
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If the player has a good accountant or a smart tax plan, it doesn't really matter where he plays. #PanamaPapers
That and it just comes off cheap AF to worry about State income taxes when you're in that bracket. There is no way whatsoever that State income taxes will impact your life in any meaningful way when you're pulling in multiple millions a year. Unless your sole worry in life is watching that number get as high as possible.
 
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Sign Larkin for 8x8.7 million as our 1a)
Sign Horvat as UFA for 7x8 million as our 1b)
Bring up Kasper as ELC 3C, move Copp to wing
Trade Bertuzzi for depth RHD and draft pick. pray Vrana finds his game.

Vrana-Larkin-Raymond
Berggren - Horvat - Perron
Kubalik - Kasper - Copp
Veleno - Rasmussen - Fabbri/Soderblom

Walman - Seider
Maatta - Hronek
Chiarot - Durzi/whoever
Looks nice but will never happen
 
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