Value of: What would it have cost Yzerman and Detroit to get Quinn Hughes that compares to what Minny paid

[dgibb10]

Buium was absolutely a core piece for the Wild. To argue differently is just plain wrong.

Core piece=young top of lineup controlled player or recent top 5 pick. Assets that don't get traded unless the ask out or cannot be signed.

Buium was a key future piece. Not a core piece. With the ASPs and the MBNs and the Danielsons and the Bears.

eg Faber, Edvinsson.

Buium type pieces get traded.

Edvinsson types do not.

 

[AKL]

Buium was absolutely a core piece for the Wild. To argue differently is just plain wrong.

Seems to me it's mostly one guy, and that one guy seems to have a vendetta or something.

It's laughable to think Buium wasn't the core piece Vancouver was looking for, similar to Edvinsson from Detroit.

You can also argue Rossi's value if you want, but he was a 23 year old center coming off a 60 point season, Detroit didn't have anything close to that.

I guess Edvinsson, Kasper, MBE, 1st would be the comp for Detroit.

"That's way more than Minnesota gave", no it's not, but that's why Detroit didn't get Hughes.

 

[dgibb10]

You can also argue Rossi's value if you want, but he was a 23 year old center coming off a 60 point season, Detroit didn't have anything close to that.

Why would we have to argue rossis value when we have literal confirmation of negotiations between Vancouver and Minnesota from last offseason.

Vancouver offered 15th overall

Minnesota asked for small sweeteners on top of that. Vancouver said no.

Rossi value to vancouver=15th overall

 

[rynryn]

Core piece=young top of lineup controlled player or recent top 5 pick. Assets that don't get traded unless the ask out or cannot be signed.

Buium was a key future piece. Not a core piece. With the ASPs and the MBNs and the Danielsons and the Bears.

eg Faber, Edvinsson.

Buium type pieces get traded.

Edvinsson types do not.

he was absolutely core in that the team would be making long term plans based on his projection as a top pair defenseman. edit: i see Faber mentioned and obviously the difference there is Faber played his way into core status. If LA (or anyone else) had projected his NHL success there's zero chance they would have traded him for Fiala.

 

[TvK86]

There should be no such thing as a non expendable core when youre receiving a Norris Winning Dman in the middle of his prime.


Faber not being moved to Van could be other factors like Canucks already have Hronek and Willander on the RD.

A player's value is not judged solely on their talent, but also on their contract status. Edvinsson is an RFA that can be locked up for a long time. He is also young and still developing, which matches Detroit's timeline better. By the time he starts entering his prime Detroit will hopefully be in a position to start contending for the cup. Hughes is an UFA after next season and he might not have re-signed with the Wings at the end of his contract. He apparently refused to agree to an extension with the wings as a part of the trade.

Giving up so much for Hughes for only 1 1/2 seasons makes sense for a team contending for the cup, which the Wings wouldn't have been doing even with Hughes. It would have been terrible asset management for Yzerman to give up so much for a player just to make it to the playoffs for a couple of seasons without a realistic chance of winning the cup. A lot of the posts about Hughes and the Wings in various threads seem to completely gloss over this and look at the potential trade just based on the players current talent levels.

 

[dgibb10]

he was absolutely core in that the team would be making long term plans based on his projection as a top pair defenseman

If that's what you're defining as core, sure I guess he was core. He's really more "top prospect", but if you want me to really rephrase,

Teams don't trade young/prime aged controlled players putting up quality results at the top of their lineup (eg there is a difference between a guy getting top line minutes and sucking and one like edvinsson getting quality results) unless they ask for a trade or won't resign.

Teams also do not trade their recent top 5 picks unless they ask out, refuse to sign, or shit the bed.



Players like Buium, which if you want you can call core, are rarely traded, but can be seen as the centerpieces of trades on occassion without asking out.

In general when it comes to the draft, when you pick in the top 5 or so, you are drafting for your core until they prove otherwise
When you're drafting in the 9-15 range, you are drafting assets until they prove otherwise. Sure, they are very high end assets, almost always the best available assets you have and you have them as part of your future plans. But they get traded and used as trade bait.

It's why you see picks in that range traded every so often, and yet a top 5 pick hasn't been traded in the salary cap era.

Buium is/was at the very high end of pieces who actually get traded/shopped.

But he wasn't in the level of piece where they are simply untouchable in every negotiation, eg like Boldy or Faber

 

[rynryn]

there are how many untouchables in the league? I'm pretty sure we would have traded first year Boldy for Quinn Hughes.

 

[Sota Popinski]

Edvinsson=non expendable core. Those don't get moved.

Hence why when you look at what Minnesota gave up, it wasn't Faber.

Right, cuz Buium wasn't part of MN's core? He was running the power play as a rookie. You think they just put him out there because they had nobody else? Absurd

 

[Spawn]

Dubious thread is dubious

 

[Sota Popinski]

ASP/MBN/1sts/Danielson/Bear/Cossa/Augustine/Kasper

There is more than enough there to match or beat Minnesotas offer.

And they did have an offer involving this accepted by Van. They just refused to do it without an extension confirmed.

This argument of "X team should have moved X core piece" only makes sense if the winning bid was a team who gave up a core piece.

Why do people keep bringing up this irrelevant fact? Hughes can't commit to an extension prior to July 1st. He wouldn't and couldn't commit to an extension with any team or he's risking the team getting penalized by the league. Detroit should have had confidence that Quinn would stay if the traded for him. He grew up in Michigan and is friends with Larkin. Yzerman just didn't want to pay the piper. Then he uses this flimsy ass excuse that Quinn wouldn't commit to an extension. It didn't stop Big Balls Billy

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

lol, somebody has to play top pair LD on a team that only has Ben Chiarot and Albert Johansson as the other options on the left side.

 

[dgibb10]

Right, cuz Buium wasn't part of MN's core? He was running the power play as a rookie. You think they just put him out there because they had nobody else? Absurd

Legitimately yes.

Minnesota has been looking for a real PPQB for like a decade now.

They've been sending out Faber and Spurgeon, who are both certainly not PPQB players, to run their PP because they haven't had a real one. It's why they drafted Buium in the first place.

They also gave the reigns to rookie declan chisholm, rookie brock faber, and rookie calen addison at times in recent memory.

He was running the power play as a rookie.

This would hold more (translation, any) weight if Buium wasn't the 4th different rookie in the last 4 years that Minnesota has tried on PP1 (because they did not have a PPQB and were trying to find one)

Calen Addison, Declan Chisholm, Brock Faber, and then Buium.

All weren't particularly good which is why they kept having average power plays despite having Kaprizov.

If Buium had their PP clicking at 25% like a Kaprizov unit should click at then they don't move him.

 

[Go Wings]

Sounds like DRW fans are happy with keeping their team as is, and not losing pieces in a trade for Hughes, so there should be no complaints about not getting him.

There is zero complaints from me for not getting him because he wouldn't sign an extension. That is why the deal didn't happen and I'm fine with that. You cannot gut your team to turn around and lose Hughes 2 years later for nothing.

There is A LOT of things to criticize Yzerman for, this isn't one of them.

 

[Szechwan]

You don't move from your core.

Welp, now your core is about to move itself instead

 

[Cogburn]

Welp, now your core is about to move itself instead

Snap.

Although this thread seems to just be about rubbing salt in the wound. It'd be like necroing a Pettersson to Detroit thread in light of a certain news item.

 

[Rowlet]

Sometimes you have to just bite the bullet and make the trade to keep your guys happy, you simply cannot rebuild forever. Yzerman didn't and now Larkin is leaving and forcing the team into yet another rebuild.

Does Larkin leaving mean that Copp and Debrincat walk after this year too? What even is the DRW core now?