Speculation: What was this Teams biggest mistake?

[Dekes For Days]

Would be curious to see how you can ascertain between what Kyle is saying vs what he isn’t saying.

You look at what he said. And when all you have is one vague sentence in an article that can't even get Matthews' contract right, you wait for more information instead of inserting meaning and impact. It's funny, because something directly impacting a contract was actually reported, but not a lot of people talking about the claim that an offer sheet threat caused Nylander's increased ask and holdout.

 

[egd27]

 

[Stephen]

You look at what he said. And when all you have is one vague sentence in an article that can't even get Matthews' contract right, you wait for more information instead of inserting meaning and impact. It's funny, because something directly impacting a contract was actually reported, but not a lot of people talking about the claim that an offer sheet threat caused Nylander's increased ask and holdout.

Dubas quote wasn’t vague. It refutes your entire view and defense of his contracts in no uncertain terms.

"The biggest mistake I think I’ve made in my whole time here has been not taking care of the three incumbent contracts," Dubas told Custance in the book via Toronto Sun's Lance Hornby. "(William) Nylander was up, (Mitch) Marner and (Auston) Matthews could have been done on July 1 extensions."

You can keep going with your own interpretation of things, but you are not aligned with Kyle.

 

[notbias]

Dubas quote wasn’t vague. It refutes your entire view and defense of his contracts in no uncertain terms.

"The biggest mistake I think I’ve made in my whole time here has been not taking care of the three incumbent contracts," Dubas told Custance in the book via Toronto Sun's Lance Hornby. "(William) Nylander was up, (Mitch) Marner and (Auston) Matthews could have been done on July 1 extensions."

You can keep going with your own interpretation of things, but you are not aligned with Kyle.

Kyle is also not aligned with his staff... so who is telling the truth?

Not saying Dubas is lying, but 3 things were laid out about why the contracts were not favorable to the Leafs, and a lot of people are focusing on one specific thing because it fits their narrative...

 

[Stephen]

Kyle is also not aligned with his staff... so who is telling the truth?

Not saying Dubas is lying, but 3 things were laid out about why the contracts were not favorable to the Leafs, and a lot of people are focusing on one specific thing because it fits their narrative...

Kyle Dubas basically demolished Dekes entire homemade PR campaign in 3 sentences. That he made a mistake, with the 3 contracts with their timing, and Tavares’ signing lifted the lid on salaries unexpectedly.

That’s the whole ballgame.

 

[notbias]

Kyle Dubas basically demolished Dekes entire homemade PR campaign in 3 sentences. That he made a mistake, with the 3 contracts with their timing, and Tavares’ signing lifted the lid on salaries unexpectedly.

That’s the whole ballgame.

Got it, so avoid what I asked about.

A staff member said Dubas would never say it but the issue was Covid, we are ignoring this quote, because it doesn't fit your narrative.

The one about offer sheets raising salaries is ignored because? 2 of 3 players were offer sheeted by the way, and Matthews was rumoured to have one coming (confirmed by Freidman).

If we are taking the article as gospel, then we are back to arguing what had the biggest affect, Tavares, timing, offer sheets, or Covid?

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Kyle Dubas basically demolished Dekes entire homemade PR campaign in 3 sentences. That he made a mistake, with the 3 contracts with their timing, and Tavares’ signing lifted the lid on salaries unexpectedly.

That’s the whole ballgame.

Incoming Dekes request for video proof in...3..2..1..

 

[Stephen]

Got it, so avoid what I asked about.

A staff member said Dubas would never say it but the issue was Covid, we are ignoring this quote, because it doesn't fit your narrative.

The one about offer sheets raising salaries is ignored because? 2 of 3 players were offer sheeted by the way, and Matthews was rumoured to have one coming (confirmed by Freidman).

If we are taking the article as gospel, then we are back to arguing what had the biggest affect, Tavares, timing, offer sheets, or Covid?

Dubas messed up on the contracts and they were exacerbated by all the stuff you’re confusing matters with.

 

[notbias]

Dubas messed up on the contracts and they were exacerbated by all the stuff you’re confusing matters with.

What % was Dubas messing up the contracts vs offer sheets vs Covid vs Lou not giving out bonuses vs hating Babcock vs other factors?

There are tons of factors that go into contracts, would love to hear an expert like yourself break it down.

 

[Shooter2x]

I feel like I can finally tolerate Dubas a little now after his recent quotes.

All you want is a little accountability and honesty.

He has the tools to be great, but it sucks for us that we went with a rookie when we hit contender status. His learning curve should have never aligned with our cup runs. The runs didn't even turn into actual runs. More like brisk walks lol

 

[thewave]

Hiring Shanahan.

Everything comes from his philosophies and bad decision making. Dubas could have been canned or not hired. JT did not need to be brought in. Everything else comes down from the top.

Shanahan was the mistake. Above him everyone knows Rogers Bell and LarryT are all borderline incompetent. Whats his face Liewikie from LA that started restructuring and getting TFC and the raps improved was top notch.

Thats about it

I feel like I can finally tolerate Dubas a little now after his recent quotes.

All you want is a little accountability and honesty.

He has the tools to be great, but it sucks for us that we went with a rookie when we hit contender status. His learning curve should have never aligned with our cup runs. The runs didn't even turn into actual runs. More like brisk walks lol

Walks? We stepped in the door shitfaced. And fell flat on our faces.

 

[Mess]

Kyle Dubas basically demolished Dekes entire homemade PR campaign in 3 sentences. That he made a mistake, with the 3 contracts with their timing, and Tavares’ signing lifted the lid on salaries unexpectedly.

That’s the whole ballgame.

Game, Set and Match. !!!!

What I'm most shocked at is that Dubas needed to learn this lesson, without the common sense understanding of what would happen based on setting a new market standard when he signed JT to the highest UFA contract ever in a Salary Cap World, and then when internal self drafted players outplay and outproduce him that Leafs internal salary would drive future contracts. Every team has an internal pay scale and a market pay scale.

The minute Leafs signed the Tavares contract I posted that his contract would act as a "Magnet" and draw Matthews and Marner still unsigned up to his and posted the following prediction where outside comparables no longer would matter and AM and MM only use JT as contract leverage and Leafs Cup Competitive window was screwed, because the best chance happpens when young highend players are on their ELC or 2nd cost controllable contracts which is the first 7 years of NHL service,

Matthews @$12 mil
Tavares @ $11 mil
Marner @ $10 mil

Now hearing Dubas confess he had no clue of the impact of the Tavares timing impact on AM and MM and WN, just emphasis and exposes how inexperienced and unqualified he was for the Leafs GM job.. That is on Shanahan though of deciding to swap out a HHOF GM for this clueless noob.

 

[m1ker]

Biggest mistake was not flipping our offensive prospects for a well rounded team

 

[BrannigansLaw]

What % was Dubas messing up the contracts vs offer sheets vs Covid vs Lou not giving out bonuses vs hating Babcock vs other factors?

There are tons of factors that go into contracts, would love to hear an expert like yourself break it down.

Poor Kyle. All he had was a ton of cap space, draft picks, and a young core at the time most GMs would kill for. If not for Covid and that damn Lou we’d have won at least two Cups by now.

 

[IPS]

The denial in this thread is just something else

 

[QJo]

Game, Set and Match. !!!!

What I'm most shocked at is that Dubas needed to learn this lesson, without the common sense understanding of what would happen based on setting a new market standard when he signed JT to the highest UFA contract ever in a Salary Cap World, and then when internal self drafted players outplay and outproduce him that Leafs internal salary would drive future contracts. Every team has an internal pay scale and a market pay scale.

The minute Leafs signed the Tavares contract I posted that his contract would act as a "Magnet" and draw Matthews and Marner still unsigned up to his and posted the following prediction where outside comparables no longer would matter and AM and MM only use JT as contract leverage and Leafs Cup Competitive window was screwed, because the best chance happpens when young highend players are on their ELC or 2nd cost controllable contracts which is the first 7 years of NHL service,

Matthews @$12 mil
Tavares @ $11 mil
Marner @ $10 mil

Now hearing Dubas confess he had no clue of the impact of the Tavares timing impact on AM and MM and WN, just emphasis and exposes how inexperienced and unqualified he was for the Leafs GM job.. That is on Shanahan though of deciding to swap out a HHOF GM for this clueless noob.

I really don't agree with yours or even Dubas' assessment of the impact of the Tavares signing. In fact, I would say that him saying that it directly impacted those contracts is evidence that he hasn't learned from his mistake.
A good GM would be able to say to negotiating agents one of two things:
a) "Tavares as a UFA commanded a higher salary because I was competing with other GMs for the signing."
b) "Tavares is overpaid but don't make the mistake of thinking that means I'll overpay everyone who comes through this door. We learn from our mistakes in this business and I have to pay people based on what they are worth not who they are worth more than."

Or at least something to that effect, as powerfully or carefully as a GM needs to be depending on the agent.

 

[hfman]

Hyman, Kadri, Bertuzzi, O'Reilly....

anyone notice how this team can't hold on to character players?


I'd swap out our so-called "core 4" for these 4 guys named above any day of the week

 

[notbias]

Hyman, Kadri, Bertuzzi, O'Reilly....

anyone notice how this team can't hold on to character players?


I'd swap out our so-called "core 4" for these 4 guys named above any day of the week

I hope you get a job managing Montreal in the near future

 

[Gabriel426]

Just funny how some here still defend Lou or Dubas. Both made huge mistakes that lead to our current over rated team full of Betas thinking they are Alphas.

Starting with the 15 draft where they literally could had draft Aho or Carlo but choose Dermott, a LHD while having both Reilly and Jake as LHD with the Leafs. This was not Lou but more Dubas and Hunter.
Then rushing the rebuilt the moment they draft AM. By trading for Andersen on draft day.
And the list goes on and on.

Both GMs are reasons why our team is the way it is now. Whether it is playoffs choking, lack of depth, defence, goaltending…..

 

[Matthews4Calder]

Continuing to bet on a core that has a mountain of evidence against it that it won't work come playoff time. Should have been blown up in 2021 after they massively choked vs Montreal in my opinion.

Signing Tavares was fine in a vacuum. Adding an elite 1C at the time for nothing but cap space is quite the coup and should have been enough to take the team to another level. If Matthews and Marner weren't such playoff duds we'd be having a very different conversation regarding Tavares.

100% in agreement with everything you stated. Been saying the same. Also Dubas should never have dished out the contracts he did for the core without accomplishing any playoff success. All started with the Nylander holdout and he was rewarded for doing so.

 

[notbias]

100% in agreement with everything you stated. Been saying the same. Also Dubas should never have dished out the contracts he did for the core without accomplishing any playoff success. All started with the Nylander holdout and he was rewarded for doing so.

100%, sit them or let them walk, don't even offer the contracts, let the rebuild begin again.

Now that we are talking about it... McDavid is overpaid too... missed the playoffs twice and then won one round and was given the largest contract in the league... come on. His best season was 108 points... only 14 more points than Marner when he signed his contract... guess that is where the extra $2 million came from...

Draisaitl had 0 playoff success, he never even made it when he signed... assuming he should have gotten a $2 million show-me deal or something?

Or... maybe this is just how contracts work and potential is built into them sometimes.

 

[Dekes For Days]

It refutes your entire view and defense of his contracts in no uncertain terms.
"The biggest mistake I think I’ve made in my whole time here has been not taking care of the three incumbent contracts," Dubas told Custance in the book via Toronto Sun's Lance Hornby. "(William) Nylander was up, (Mitch) Marner and (Auston) Matthews could have been done on July 1 extensions."
You can keep going with your own interpretation of things, but you are not aligned with Kyle.

The quote doesn't refute anything, let alone my "entire view" or the facts about the contracts that were signed. I'm not sure why you think it's surprising that a GM with hindsight wishes they had locked players up before improved play and offer sheets raised their prices. Your interpretation of what these quotes mean are not aligned with what is actually said.

Quite frankly, if you want to be upset about contracts not getting signed earlier (assuming that it would have even been a possible and reasonable option, which we do not know), you should probably take it up with the guy who didn't negotiate with Nylander, screwed over Marner, and taught Dubas to "take time if you have it".

 

[Superstar]

"...you should probably take it up with the guy who didn't negotiate with Nylander, screwed over Marner, and taught Dubas to "take time if you have it".

In other words Dubas is a brainless puppet.

 

[Bomber0104]

This thread is literally the defeat of any credibility two posters have.

Watch them wiggle and worm out of confronting reality to hilarious ends.

It's a spectacle.

Reminds me of the psychotic wing of US politics.

 

[Bomber0104]

Kyle Dubas basically demolished Dekes entire homemade PR campaign in 3 sentences. That he made a mistake, with the 3 contracts with their timing, and Tavares’ signing lifted the lid on salaries unexpectedly.

That’s the whole ballgame.

Keep twisting that dagger Stephen.

I'm glad to see our Leafs board mods taking a solid, intelligent pushback on willful propaganda / disinformation.