Speculation: What was this Teams biggest mistake?

[socko]

Blaming Lou is probably the least honest approach to apportioning blame to why this era hasn’t really panned out. It’s like receiving an inheritance of $20 million and bemoaning the fact that it wasn’t a $25 million inheritance and boo hoo nothing worked out because of Lou.

Regarding Marleau, it looks like there were probably alternative solutions where you could have just kept the fossil and played out the last year instead of throwing out a first rounder to make him disappear. Maybe you don’t keep both Kapanen and Johnsson at the time. Maybe the Kadri deal didn’t happen the same way requiring $3.5 million to be spent on Alex Kerfoot. So many things could have been different that the butterfly effect of that is unknown.

Or the real obvious one - no Tavares.

 

[Dekes For Days]

If it was a great offer Marner would have signed it so it must have been insufficient

Marner didn't sign it because he wanted to be a Leaf, and they were in respectful negotiations. It doesn't say anything about the specifics of the offer, or what Marner would have done had negotiations broken down. Offer sheets tend not to be discounted contracts, for obvious reasons.

Stolen? Tell us more about this theft.

Marner wasn't given normal bonuses on his ELC as part of Lou's weird and petty power trip, and then after lying to Marner, he turned around and gave them to Matthews.

 

[ACC1224]

Stolen isn’t the word I would use, but Marner lost out on a potential 2 million and it was reported that was a part of the reason he went so hard in the post ELC contracts. In hindsight it was really dumb to not just give him the potential of earning that 2 million then. It would have saved us in the future and it would have eliminated that comparison of Matthews got it, why didn’t I get it.



Again I, like many others don’t look at it as a failure because the game meant nothing. I would feel the same if they won. Good for them they won a regular season game.

Toronto isn’t the first, isn’t the last and will never be the last to lose to an EBUG, so who cares lol.

Lou also shut down a merchandise site that Marner had put together after being drafted which also cost him some money.

 

[francis246]

Blaming Lou is probably the least honest approach to apportioning blame to why this era hasn’t really panned out. It’s like receiving an inheritance of $20 million and bemoaning the fact that it wasn’t a $25 million inheritance and boo hoo nothing worked out because of Lou.

Regarding Marleau, it looks like there were probably alternative solutions where you could have just kept the fossil and played out the last year instead of throwing out a first rounder to make him disappear. Maybe you don’t keep both Kapanen and Johnsson at the time. Maybe the Kadri deal didn’t happen the same way requiring $3.5 million to be spent on Alex Kerfoot. So many things could have been different that the butterfly effect of that is unknown.

I’m not blaming Lou for everything. But his actions kickstarted a lot of the issues. We know this to be true now. A lot of the issues that Marner, Nylander and Matthews had with the organization was under Lou and Babcock. Not Dubas. The post ELC contracts were not going to be easy because of the shit that was happening in the organization. Lou and Babcock’s handling of the young players in the organization contributed to a lot of animosity that happened specifically in the Nylander and Marner contracts. It’s why both Nylander’s father got involved and Marner’s father got involved. Shit was hitting the fan before Lou left. 2016-2019 was not pretty for this organization.

I don’t see how you’re dismissing those bonuses. That was a big contention point. Had we just allowed them to their Schedule B, Marner wouldn’t have hit his anyways, neither would have Nylander. It was a stupid hill to die on. They probably don’t go fighting for every cent in the next contract.

At the end of the day I would have brought in someone who’s more veteran to create more balance in the organization instead of Dubas but I understand why Shanahan went with Dubas trying to rectify some of the discontent throughout the organization.

 

[francis246]

Blaming Lou is probably the least honest approach to apportioning blame to why this era hasn’t really panned out. It’s like receiving an inheritance of $20 million and bemoaning the fact that it wasn’t a $25 million inheritance and boo hoo nothing worked out because of Lou.

Regarding Marleau, it looks like there were probably alternative solutions where you could have just kept the fossil and played out the last year instead of throwing out a first rounder to make him disappear. Maybe you don’t keep both Kapanen and Johnsson at the time. Maybe the Kadri deal didn’t happen the same way requiring $3.5 million to be spent on Alex Kerfoot. So many things could have been different that the butterfly effect of that is unknown.

Duplicate, please delete

 

[francis246]

That admittedly was a real weird hill to die on for Lou. It really wouldn’t have harmed the team one iota to just give Mitch the bonuses.

It’s crazy to me and I agree it was a dumb hill to die on because Marner probably doesn’t even hit the schedule B bonuses during his ELC. So any cap overages Lou was worried about was a non factor.

 

[nuck]

Ultimately everything leads back to Shanahan.

You could sort of say that but he wasn't the one who had chances every season to make the necessary changes (beyond the one of just firing Kyle). You could say he never vetoed every questionable move KD made but that isn't the cause of the questionable moves. May as well blame ownership for all KD's mistakes because they appointed Shanny and didn't fire both when it was shown not to work.

If you believe Kyle was ready to blow it up before he got fired and Shanny ran it back in spite, perhaps, but I don't think there was any real evidence of that. I believe Shanny is not very good at his job. I believe Kyle sold him on the Dubas plan and that the "Shanaplan", if it ever existed, was replaced by Kyle's dream of how a team could be built. Kyle is George and Shanahan is Lennie except in the end the autistic dude snuffed the thinker rather than the other way around. But Kyle/George did try

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Dubas and Shanny taking a lot of heat. Shanahan is very much on borrowed time and I'm wondering why he's not fired. Pelley being new is a bad reason and I hope that's not it

 

[Stephen]

The core is good again?

Can we stay consistent about whether he inherited good players or chokers at least?

I think Marner feeling like he was screwed out fo money by Lou is documented, not an excuse for him being overpaid, but I don't think it is a secret.

The core is clearly a dud but the quality of the window dressing could have been different.

 

[notbias]

The core is clearly a dud but the quality of the window dressing could have been different.

Collectively, they got overpaid, but why are people pretending he inherited a good situation?

Looks like maybe the biggest mistake this team made in your eyes was the drafting under Lou... wasted our best picks on duds.

Your words, not mine.

 

[Racer88]

Lou also shut down a merchandise site that Marner had put together after being drafted which also cost him some money.

Sounds to me like Marner is all about the money

 

[socko]

Dubas and Shanny taking a lot of heat. Shanahan is very much on borrowed time and I'm wondering why he's not fired. Pelley being new is a bad reason and I hope that's not it

That's it. Plus he has a year left on his contract. Plus the Leafs embrace mediocrity. Plus, according to Pelley, Shanny is a champion (even though that is almost completely irrelevant). Maybe we can get Gretzky to coach again for us? He's a champion. So is Kessel. Maybe Kessel for head of hockey operations? Who says no?

 

[Nineteen67]

Stolen isn’t the word I would use, but Marner lost out on a potential 2 million and it was reported that was a part of the reason he went so hard in the post ELC contracts. In hindsight it was really dumb to not just give him the potential of earning that 2 million then. It would have saved us in the future and it would have eliminated that comparison of Matthews got it, why didn’t I get it.



Again I, like many others don’t look at it as a failure because the game meant nothing. I would feel the same if they won. Good for them they won a regular season game.

Toronto isn’t the first, isn’t the last and will never be the last to lose to an EBUG, so who cares lol.

And yet it’s still part of their resume.

 

[Notsince67]

Sounds to me like Marner is all about the money

Not everyone play hockey for the philanthropy.
There is no justifying what Lou did. It was something the team paid for in the long run. I don't know too many men that would take that without a bit of a slap back but I generally hang out with guys guys.

 

[Racer88]

Not everyone play hockey for the philanthropy.
There is no justifying what Lou did. It was something the team paid for in the long run. I don't know too many men that would take that without a bit of a slap back but I generally hang out with guys guys.

You truly are my hero…….. would that be at the YMCA……maybe with the village people.


We can debate Lou, Dubas and Marner all day long but none of this is even a concern if Dubas doesn’t get Tavares and that stupid contract.
Even the Covid flat cap excuse goes away

 

[ACC1224]

Sounds to me like Marner is all about the money

You’re ridiculous

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

Marner never got an offer sheet.

 

[IPS]

Not everyone play hockey for the philanthropy.
There is no justifying what Lou did. It was something the team paid for in the long run. I don't know too many men that would take that without a bit of a slap back but I generally hang out with guys guys.

Yeah sure.

Where there's smoke there's fire. So not only was it Babcock "messing" with Marner but Lou also saw something that made him withhold signing bonuses.

Me honestly thinks they saw something off with this kid's character since day 1.

 

[IPS]

Did Lou have a history of holding back bonuses on other prospects he's dealt with? I genuinely don't know, just asking.

 

[francis246]

And yet it’s still part of their resume.

What resume? No one gives a shit about that game that matters in hockey. You think when it’s time for the HOF for Matthews they are going to say 5 rockets and one game he lost to an EBUG who drives a Zamboni? It’s just a stupid notion. Its not even going to be in the conversation. The game literally means nothing.

 

[Racer88]

You’re ridiculous

Pot meet kettle

 

[Stephen]

Did Lou have a history of holding back bonuses on other prospects he's dealt with? I genuinely don't know, just asking.

Lou apparently never handed out the bonuses he withheld from Marner while in Jersey. He had to give them to Matthews because Matthews was a different level prospect as a slam dunk first overall.

Honestly, who even knew about schedule B bonuses until the Marner’s came along and made a stink over them.

 

[Superstar]

The core is clearly a dud but the quality of the window dressing could have been different.

What kind of window dressing? For Swan Lake or the film 300?

 

[Notsince67]

You truly are my hero…….. would that be at the YMCA……maybe with the village people.


We can debate Lou, Dubas and Marner all day long but none of this is even a concern if Dubas doesn’t get Tavares and that stupid contract.
Even the Covid flat cap excuse goes away

Never liked Dubas. It also isn't lost on me who mentored him

 

[notbias]

Lou apparently never handed out the bonuses he withheld from Marner while in Jersey. He had to give them to Matthews because Matthews was a different level prospect as a slam dunk first overall.

Honestly, who even knew about schedule B bonuses until the Marner’s came along and made a stink over them.

I'd be pretty annoyed missing out on 9 million dollars after being told no one gets those bonuses on the team, and then the next year they sign someone and give them the bonuses...