What The Hell Happened To...Jonathan Cheechoo?

[Led Zappa]

No matter what you say or how you say it, you cannot prove what led to Cheechoo's decline.

Injury
Fluke of nature
Thornton carrying him
Mismanagement of his rehabilitation
Laziness after 2006

All are possible reasons and the only person who really knows is Jonathan Cheechoo, not me and not you.

I can't prove I exist anymore than I can PROVE that Cheechoo's injuries and subsequent surgery led to his decline. But I know both are true. You can't prove they aren't. So here we are.

We do have evidence of his on ice play before and after these facts. Most people wouldn't have a problem drawing a correlation and be comfortable coming to the conclusion that most of the posters here have.

You seem to be making the argument that we can't prove you wrong therefore you argument is legitimate. It's not.

Crosby scores so many points because the players know the ref's give him deference and they are afraid of taking penalties. Prove me wrong.

 

[Helistin]

If i would be smart i would say the double hernia was the reason for the Cheechoo's decline since he started his decline right after the surgery.
But i'm not smart so i'm going to blame laziness , and i base that on absolutely nothing.

 

[dwood16]

No matter what you say or how you say it, you cannot prove what led to Cheechoo's decline.

Injury
Fluke of nature
Thornton carrying him
Mismanagement of his rehabilitation
Laziness after 2006

All are possible reasons and the only person who really knows is Jonathan Cheechoo, not me and not you.

Good point. I guess you could be considered an authority on laziness ..considering the amount of research you've done on this topic.

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

Cheechoo was a hero to my dad and I. Man this really opens the floodgates...

 

[Grave]

List the amount of NHL top 6 players that have played since having double hernia surgery. Cheechoo has the same issue that Heatley and Lecavalier have, lower body injuries destroying their career. The latter two haven't had as significant as injuries.

 

[theotis77]

There's a goal about a minute in that shows exactly what you just said. Cheechoo had incredible balance and strength.

Wow, that's a trip down memory lane. Some names I hadn't thought of in years. Ekman, Preissing, Dimitrakos. I think I even saw Fahey for a split second.

 

[dwood16]

If i would be smart i would say the double hernia was the reason for the Cheechoo's decline since he started his decline right after the surgery.
But i'm not smart so i'm going to blame laziness , and i base that on absolutely nothing.

I see what you did there

 

[Mattb124]

Cheechoo's success was solely due to Joe Thornton. Once teams realized that they could shut down Thornton it shut down his entire line which it led to the Sharks demise in the playoffs and ultimately Cheechoo's decline.

Injuries did not help and he wasn't exactly known for his off-season training regimen either.
Before JT joined the team Cheechoo was merely a third line player with some skill (similar to Tommy Wingels or Jamie McGinn) but because he had one amazing season being set up by at the time probably the best player in the game it looked as if Cheechoo was a top line winger when in reality he was not, and never was.

It is interesting reading such an ill-informed post from someone who writes about hockey as a hobby. Cheechoo scored 28 goals in his second NHL season ('03-'04, 26th in the NHL), the year before Thornton was traded to the Sharks. I am not suggesting that scoring more goals than the majority of top line forwards in the NHL qualified Cheechoo as top line material, but the argument could be made. His '05-'06 goal scoring - both before and after the Thornton trade - was decidedly first line performance.

Neither McGinn or Wingels have cracked 20 goals and both have had as good or (in McGinn's case) better linemates than Cheechoo had in '03-'04, because they are not as talented as Cheechoo and hence are not really similar players.

Cheechoo is not the kind of guy to complain about his situation or make excuses, but it is well known by people here in town who know or have interacted with Jonathan that it was injuries that derailed his NHL career. He was never a fast skater, and he simply did not have NHL-level speed following his hernia surgeries. You don't have to accept that as the truth, but understand that there are people on this site who have enough knowledge of the situation to find your opinion a bit insulting to us and to the player.

 

[SJeasy]

List the amount of NHL top 6 players that have played since having double hernia surgery. Cheechoo has the same issue that Heatley and Lecavalier have, lower body injuries destroying their career. The latter two haven't had as significant as injuries.

Gaborik is the one who comes to mind who has made a comeback but it was after significant struggles. I agree that lower body stuff is frequently the kiss of death on a career.

 

[TheHockeyRant]

I can't prove I exist anymore than I can PROVE that Cheechoo's injuries and subsequent surgery led to his decline. But I know both are true. You can't prove they aren't. So here we are.

We do have evidence of his on ice play before and after these facts. Most people wouldn't have a problem drawing a correlation and be comfortable coming to the conclusion that most of the posters here have.

You seem to be making the argument that we can't prove you wrong therefore you argument is legitimate. It's not.
Crosby scores so many points because the players know the ref's give him deference and they are afraid of taking penalties. Prove me wrong.

No, what many of you misconstrue is the amount of focus I put into Cheechoo's decline based on Thornton. I believe it was a combinatino of those factors period. Yet because I say the word "lazy" everyone assumes hat is all I say, when I in fact also believe his injury contributed just as much if not even more so.

That's the problem many interpret a phrase as a completely different thing. Regardless, Jonathan Cheechoo was one of my favorite players. But apparantly being critical of a favorite player is "frowned" upon.

 

[Led Zappa]

No, what many of you misconstrue is the amount of focus I put into Cheechoo's decline based on Thornton. I believe it was a combinatino of those factors period. Yet because I say the word "lazy" everyone assumes hat is all I say, when I in fact also believe his injury contributed just as much if not even more so.

That's the problem many interpret a phrase as a completely different thing. Regardless, Jonathan Cheechoo was one of my favorite players. But apparantly being critical of a favorite player is "frowned" upon.

Nope. It was this post where you said the bolded that set me off. It's what every main board poster who knows almost nothing about the Sharks have said for years and it's simply not true. Many have explained why it's not true right in this thread, so I don't need to cover that territory again except pointing out that the other point I bolded is also not true.

Cheechoo's success was solely due to Joe Thornton. Once teams realized that they could shut down Thornton it shut down his entire line which it led to the Sharks demise in the playoffs and ultimately Cheechoo's decline.

Injuries did not help and he wasn't exactly known for his off-season training regimen either.
Before JT joined the team Cheechoo was merely a third line player with some skill (similar to Tommy Wingels or Jamie McGinn) but because he had one amazing season being set up by at the time probably the best player in the game it looked as if Cheechoo was a top line winger when in reality he was not, and never was.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

This dude should just quit while he's buried.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

No, what many of you misconstrue is the amount of focus I put into Cheechoo's decline based on Thornton. I believe it was a combinatino of those factors period. Yet because I say the word "lazy" everyone assumes hat is all I say, when I in fact also believe his injury contributed just as much if not even more so.

That's the problem many interpret a phrase as a completely different thing. Regardless, Jonathan Cheechoo was one of my favorite players. But apparantly being critical of a favorite player is "frowned" upon.

It really doesn't matter what proportion you put into it. When you slap lazy and Jonathan Cheechoo together, you lose all credibility that instant. When you say Cheechoo's success was all Joe Thornton, you do the same there since Cheechoo had success before Thornton even showed up. This has nothing to do with frowning upon being critical of a player. It's being critical of a player based on very poor information.

 

[hohosaregood]

It really doesn't matter what proportion you put into it. When you slap lazy and Jonathan Cheechoo together, you lose all credibility that instant. When you say Cheechoo's success was all Joe Thornton, you do the same there since Cheechoo had success before Thornton even showed up. This has nothing to do with frowning upon being critical of a player. It's being critical of a player based on very poor information.

Also, Thornton hasn't boosted anybody else to that height since then. Cheechoo in his prime was just the perfect fit.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Also, Thornton hasn't boosted anybody else to that height since then. Cheechoo in his prime was just the perfect fit.

Yup. Didn't make Patty or Heatley blow up like that. Who were much more talented players than Cheech. Cheechoo was just the perfect fit for JT.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Also, Thornton hasn't boosted anybody else to that height since then. Cheechoo in his prime was just the perfect fit.

That's because that particular year was one of the most penalized years that I can remember due to the various rule changes and the crackdown on calling things. There were reasons why Marleau took that next step that year even without playing with Thornton and that was one of them. It was a perfect storm of events that led to that year and Cheechoo more than did his fair share.

 

[TheHockeyRant]

Looking back at my original post perhaps I did overstate things a bit. By saying JT was "solely the reason" I basically sound like a hypocrite. Sorry.
I do still believe he was never truly a top line winger though. Doesn't mean he wasn't an awesome player.

 

[Blackbear]

It really doesn't matter what proportion you put into it. When you slap lazy and Jonathan Cheechoo together, you lose all credibility that instant. When you say Cheechoo's success was all Joe Thornton, you do the same there since Cheechoo had success before Thornton even showed up. This has nothing to do with frowning upon being critical of a player. It's being critical of a player based on very poor information.

Floyd and I may disagree on whether offensive defensemen have any obligation actually to defend but he couldn't be more right here (and of course others in the thread have said the same thing). He was a truly gifted sniper who was a solid 20-30+ goal contributor even without Thornton, and the hardest working player on the team throughout his tenure even after his injuries/Ting sessions. Everyone knows he wasn't a great skater and all the worse after the injuries, but his effectiveness even for all that was remarkable. Only a very bitter person suffused with Schadenfreude was happy to see him go.

 

[Matalvatz]

Yup. Didn't make Patty or Heatley blow up like that. Who were much more talented players than Cheech. Cheechoo was just the perfect fit for JT.

IIRC, there was a Sharkbyte episode a couple seasons back with the quick quiz. Drew was asking everyone who was the best player they had played with and Jumbo said "Jonathan Cheechoo" with a big smile. I remember Drew having a surprised/impressed look on his face that said "Oh yeah, forgot about him."

05-06 was just a magical season - Hart, Richard, Art Ross, 'nuff said about the talents of Jonathan Cheechoo in his prime.