What The Hell Happened To...Jonathan Cheechoo?

[210]

28 goals playing with Ricci and the other Thornton = just a third liner? Sounds like National boards talk man...

Cheechoo's work ethic was never questioned, just injuries killed his career. If he was still healthy, I have no doubt he'd be a 30 goal scorer in this league, with or without Thornton.

When Cheechoo played here in Worcester he was easily the hardest worker. His weight room workouts were second to only Nick Petrecki and his post-practice regiment included shooting pucks for 30-45 minutes.

Cheechoo also doesn't get anywhere near enough credit for how good a skater he was. People seem to equate being fast as being a good skater, and that's not the case at all. While he wasn't ever any better than on the lower end of "average" for speed he was virtually impossible to knock off stride, never mind making him fall down. I'm hard pressed to come up with another player that's come through Worcester that was a better skater than Cheechoo.

 

[zombie kopitar]

Agreed about his strength on his skates, was going to mention it. He was a borderline power forward at times. Also the game got even quicker a season or so after the lockout after players adjusted to the rules and less PP; so his greatest flaw became accentuated on top of injuries

 

[hohosaregood]

When Cheechoo played here in Worcester he was easily the hardest worker. His weight room workouts were second to only Nick Petrecki and his post-practice regiment included shooting pucks for 30-45 minutes.

Cheechoo also doesn't get anywhere near enough credit for how good a skater he was. People seem to equate being fast as being a good skater, and that's not the case at all. While he wasn't ever any better than on the lower end of "average" for speed he was virtually impossible to knock off stride, never mind making him fall down. I'm hard pressed to come up with another player that's come through Worcester that was a better skater than Cheechoo.

There's a goal about a minute in that shows exactly what you just said. Cheechoo had incredible balance and strength.

 

[WTFetus]

When Cheechoo played here in Worcester he was easily the hardest worker. His weight room workouts were second to only Nick Petrecki and his post-practice regiment included shooting pucks for 30-45 minutes.

Cheechoo also doesn't get anywhere near enough credit for how good a skater he was. People seem to equate being fast as being a good skater, and that's not the case at all. While he wasn't ever any better than on the lower end of "average" for speed he was virtually impossible to knock off stride, never mind making him fall down. I'm hard pressed to come up with another player that's come through Worcester that was a better skater than Cheechoo.

Look where that got them.

In all seriousness, good point on the skating. Cheechoo was a slow skater, but when he got to the puck along the boards, it was virtually impossible to knock him down or strip it from him.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Cheechoo was derailed by injuries. Joe Thornton didn't make Cheech. He made an already good top 9 goal scorer into a Richard winner. You don't score 28 goals in the clutch and grab era by accident.

 

[Timo Time]

Yeah but... what happened to Ekman?

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Torrey Mitchell was a terrible skater, Cheech was not.

 

[Matsi]

Cheechoo's success was solely due to Joe Thornton. Once teams realized that they could shut down Thornton it shut down his entire line which it led to the Sharks demise in the playoffs and ultimately Cheechoo's decline.

Injuries did not help and he wasn't exactly known for his off-season training regimen either.

Of course. It's a common mistake to label Thornton an excellent set-up man. He actually does not pass the puck to his linemates, it only seems like it; what he really does is he deflects the puck from his linemate's stick (basically the same way a ricochetting gunshot hits the mark, except that Joe can do it intentionally). That's the way the scrubs on his line get their goals, even though they should be fully credited to Joe. Hell, he singlehandedly can make anyone who camps in front of the goal a Rocket Richard winner.

Before JT joined the team Cheechoo was merely a third line player with some skill (similar to Tommy Wingels or Jamie McGinn)

Ya sure Cheech, Wingels, and McGinn are so similar? All three are completely different players, and in no way you can compare McGinn's skill level to either Wingels' or Cheechoo's. Ginner is a fine bottom-sixer, he is exactly what you stated above - a third line player with some skill. Wingels is a legit top-six forward at this point or at the very least a top-notch third line center.

 

[Lebanezer]

There's a goal about a minute in that shows exactly what you just said. Cheechoo had incredible balance and strength.

That year was incredible. Everyone loves that guy.

 

[dwood16]

Cheechoo's success was solely due to Joe Thornton. Once teams realized that they could shut down Thornton it shut down his entire line which it led to the Sharks demise in the playoffs and ultimately Cheechoo's decline.

Injuries did not help and he wasn't exactly known for his off-season training regimen either.
Before JT joined the team Cheechoo was merely a third line player with some skill (similar to Tommy Wingels or Jamie McGinn) but because he had one amazing season being set up by at the time probably the best player in the game it looked as if Cheechoo was a top line winger when in reality he was not, and never was.

Yeah let's give the guy who has made a career out of picking up secondary assists the credit. Not the guy who can absolutely one time anything that comes near him, is a monster in puck battles and probably has the best offensive awereness this team has seen. He also scored a bunch of goals after the injury with other linemates.

 

[Led Zappa]

Cheechoo's success was solely due to Joe Thornton. Once teams realized that they could shut down Thornton it shut down his entire line which it led to the Sharks demise in the playoffs and ultimately Cheechoo's decline.

Injuries did not help and he wasn't exactly known for his off-season training regimen either.
Before JT joined the team Cheechoo was merely a third line player with some skill (similar to Tommy Wingels or Jamie McGinn) but because he had one amazing season being set up by at the time probably the best player in the game it looked as if Cheechoo was a top line winger when in reality he was not, and never was.

Yeah let's give the guy who has made a career out of picking up secondary assists the credit. Not the guy who can absolutely one time anything that comes near him, is a monster in puck battles and probably has the best offensive awereness this team has seen. He also scored a bunch of goals after the injury with other linemates.

You two are opposite sides of the extreme conclusions coin.

 

[dwood16]

You two are opposite sides of the extreme conclusions coin.

I can live with that. But I don't think my assessment of Cheechoo is blown up at all. He was a better playoff performer too. Even after the surgeries and in that Ducks series where almost every other forward was garbage. Especially Thornton and Marleau.

Also, Cheechoo had a ton of breakaways back then. Why can't these speedsters get even half as many?

 

[VanIslander]

I was once lambasted on these boards for suggesting Tootoo would probably become a better NHLer than Cheechoo.

As a lifelong Canucks-Sharks-Preds-Caps fan I should know what I'm talking about.

Tootoo was an impact Bottom-6 role player for most of his 12-year NHL career, though only scoring 135 points he recorded 825 PIMs and had intangibles.

Cheechoo played only 7 years int he NHL and had 305 points and was demoted to the AHL as an embarrassment because he wasn't top-6 material anymore but he had no Bottom-6 skills so was a liability.

History has vindicated me.

 

[The Nemesis]

I was once lambasted on these boards for suggesting Tootoo would probably become a better NHLer than Cheechoo.

As a lifelong Canucks-Sharks-Preds-Caps fan I should know what I'm talking about.

Tootoo was an impact Bottom-6 role player for most of his 12-year NHL career, though only scoring 135 points he recorded 825 PIMs and had intangibles.

Cheechoo played only 7 years int he NHL and had 305 points and was demoted to the AHL as an embarrassment because he wasn't top-6 material anymore but he had no Bottom-6 skills so was a liability.

History has vindicated me.

Soo...... having 5 extra years in the league because he didn't suffer catastrophic injury, while simultaneously recording like 1/3rd the # of points in that longer career makes Tootoo the better NHLer?

o.....k......

 

[Lebanezer]

Soo...... having 5 extra years in the league because he didn't suffer catastrophic injury, while simultaneously recording like 1/3rd the # of points in that longer career makes Tootoo the better NHLer?

o.....k......

Yeah...

 

[Led Zappa]

Soo...... having 5 extra years in the league because he didn't suffer catastrophic injury, while simultaneously recording like 1/3rd the # of points in that longer career makes Tootoo the better NHLer?

o.....k......

Saved me some typing!

 

[TheHockeyRant]

He was top 30 in goals scored in the league in 04 just so in case u weren't aware



I also remember hearing somewhere that he would shoot up to 1000 times a day...I don't work ethic should come in to question on his decline.
It was always footspeed, and injuries just decimated it even quicker.

I was referring to post 2006. There is a picture floating around somewhere of him looking quite overweight during summer (for an NHLer) anyway. Something just "happened" after that season.

 

[TheHockeyRant]

Cheechoo was derailed by injuries. Joe Thornton didn't make Cheech. He made an already good top 9 goal scorer into a Richard winner. You don't score 28 goals in the clutch and grab era by accident.

You do after the team gets rid of Owen Nolan and Teemu Selanne. Someone had to step up. Cheechoo was one of those players.

Again I'm not diminishing Cheech's success, I love the guy but I think his success in 2006 was also his undoing. Afterwards everyone wanted him to be a 40+ goalscorer from there on out which to me he wasn't. If he never played with JT I think he would still be in the NHL.

But hey its just an opinion, don't get bent out of shape about it. I miss you Cheechoo...and your train

 

[hockeyball]

I was referring to post 2006. There is a picture floating around somewhere of him looking quite overweight during summer (for an NHLer) anyway. Something just "happened" after that season.

Yah... he had a double hernia? What are we even discussing this for. The argument that Joe Thornton made Cheechoo is provably wrong since he had 30 goals without Joe. Yes, Joe made Cheechoo better, but he didn't take him from an ahl player to a 56 goal scorer. What's often forgotten is that Cheechoo made Joe better too. Joe doesn't win the Hart that season without Cheechoo. Joe made Cheechoo better just like any great player makes any other great player better. Talent benefits talent.

 

[WTFetus]

I was referring to post 2006. There is a picture floating around somewhere of him looking quite overweight during summer (for an NHLer) anyway. Something just "happened" after that season.

Yeah, double hernia surgeries will not allow you to train as you usually would...

So one picture makes him "not known for his off-season training regimen", and 28 goals in the low scoring pre-lockout makes him nothing more than a 3rd liner who is only a byproduct of Thornton?

Joe Thornton made him a Richard winner, but without Thornton, he was still an excellent Top-6 RW.

But hey its just an opinion, don't get bent out of shape about it. I miss you Cheechoo...and your train

Seems like this is always your go-to response. If you don't want your opinion questioned or critiqued, then a discussion board isn't exactly the best place to visit. Especially if that opinion is backed by incorrect information.

"If he never played with JT I think he would still be in the NHL."

Again, injuries killed his NHL career. Had nothing to do with playing with Thornton. Coaches aren't idiots. They don't look at you and say "Oh you aren't a 40 goal scorer anymore? You're out of this league". They saw it as "Oh the double hernias made you an even slower skater than you were before".

 

[The Nemesis]

You do after the team gets rid of Owen Nolan and Teemu Selanne. Someone had to step up. Cheechoo was one of those players.

Again I'm not diminishing Cheech's success, I love the guy but I think his success in 2006 was also his undoing. Afterwards everyone wanted him to be a 40+ goalscorer from there on out which to me he wasn't. If he never played with JT I think he would still be in the NHL.

But hey its just an opinion, don't get bent out of shape about it. I miss you Cheechoo...and your train

wait, what?

He pretty much was a 40 goal scorer. He scored ~30 playing 3rd line minutes with Ricci and Scott Thornton. If he can do that, he can score 40 in top-6 minutes with top 6 players, Joe Thornton or otherwise. Joe Thornton might have gotten him to 50, but Jonathan Cheechoo was a top-flight NHL goal-scorer during the clutchiest, grabbiest era of hockey with or without Lord Passington flanking him. he scored 37 in 76 games the next year too. If he hadn't missed 6 games, guess how many goals he was on pace for. Yep, 40.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You do after the team gets rid of Owen Nolan and Teemu Selanne. Someone had to step up. Cheechoo was one of those players.

Again I'm not diminishing Cheech's success, I love the guy but I think his success in 2006 was also his undoing. Afterwards everyone wanted him to be a 40+ goalscorer from there on out which to me he wasn't. If he never played with JT I think he would still be in the NHL.

But hey its just an opinion, don't get bent out of shape about it. I miss you Cheechoo...and your train

So why wasn't there more than 26 guys that could've accidentally got their way to 28 or more goals that year? This whole someone had to step up gig is untrue especially since there weren't 30 guys doing what Cheechoo did then. I mean hey, if someone has to step up, there are 30 teams with opportunities to step up and wait that didn't happen.

Cheechoo's undoing was his double hernia surgery. There really isn't anything else to say about it. People vastly underestimate, in general not necessarily here, how debilitating that injury was for him especially when he couldn't work out at all that off-season since it impacted the most important part of a hockey player's body...the core. It impacted him so much that it took away some of his ability permanently. And when you take away a slow man's speed that just got him into those areas for that split second needed and he can't skate there as fast, shoot as fast, or get as much velocity on his shot as he could because his core is not what it was, you have what happened to Cheechoo.

Had absolutely nothing to do with the success he had with Jumbo. If he never played with Jumbo, Jumbo would've never got his MVP and Cheechoo wouldn't have gotten his Richard. If he suffers that same double hernia, he's still descending out of the league due to the impact it has on his body.

 

[TheHockeyRant]

Yeah, double hernia surgeries will not allow you to train as you usually would...

So one picture makes him "not known for his off-season training regimen", and 28 goals in the low scoring pre-lockout makes him nothing more than a 3rd liner who is only a byproduct of Thornton?

Joe Thornton made him a Richard winner, but without Thornton, he was still an excellent Top-6 RW.



Seems like this is always your go-to response. If you don't want your opinion questioned or critiqued, then a discussion board isn't exactly the best place to visit. Especially if that opinion is backed by incorrect information.

"If he never played with JT I think he would still be in the NHL."

Again, injuries killed his NHL career. Had nothing to do with playing with Thornton. Coaches aren't idiots. They don't look at you and say "Oh you aren't a 40 goal scorer anymore? You're out of this league". They saw it as "Oh the double hernias made you an even slower skater than you were before".

No matter what you say or how you say it, you cannot prove what led to Cheechoo's decline.

Injury
Fluke of nature
Thornton carrying him
Mismanagement of his rehabilitation
Laziness after 2006

All are possible reasons and the only person who really knows is Jonathan Cheechoo, not me and not you.

 

[WTFetus]

Thornton carrying him and laziness were your only two points.
The first one just makes absolutely no sense, and the second point has been pointed out to be incorrect a number of times by people who have seen Cheechoo practice (not just one guy who saw one picture). No one has ever questioned Cheechoo's work ethic in his career. You would see how everything you're saying is wrong if you didn't conveniently pick-and-choose posts to respond to.

 

[hohosaregood]

No matter what you say or how you say it, you cannot prove what led to Cheechoo's decline.

Injury
Fluke of nature
Thornton carrying him
Mismanagement of his rehabilitation
Laziness after 2006

All are possible reasons and the only person who really knows is Jonathan Cheechoo, not me and not you.

I'm pretty sure we can rule out most of those out.

Here's a thread from the Senators forum from when Cheechoo was bought out. I don't think I saw anything that said anything but praise for his work ethic.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=784852&highlight=cheechoo