What should happen to Civic Arena site?

[Til the End of Time]

there is an ongoing debate/discussion/conflict between the pittsburgh penguins and hill district leaders.

basically in 2007 when they got the new arena, the penguins were also given the rights to develop the ~30 acres where the civic arena used to be. the team was given a deadline by the end of october this year to come up with a plan for the land, and they are now requesting an extension.

apparently the hill district was previously considered to be a center of black culture in pittsburgh, but alot of the business and affordable housing was destroyed to build the civic arena using eminent domain.

hill district leaders want to ensure that affordable housing will be a feature of the new developments and that women/minorities will have large roles in the developments. the hill district reps want minority participation of 35 percent and women participation of 15 percent in the pre-development, construction, and post-development phases of the project, while the penguins want 25 and 10 percent respectively.

thoughts?

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[Darth Vitale]

I always cringe when I hear "affordable housing" as it pertains to urban areas, because it invariably ends up a mismanaged nightmare that never meets the designers' vision. Been tried in every major city. Usually ends up a slum in every major city. I vote they should make the world's largest outdoor rink, roller in warm weather, ice in cold. Hill District can rent skates half price. Everyone wins.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

there is an ongoing debate/discussion/conflict between the pittsburgh penguins and hill district leaders.

basically in 2007 when they got the new arena, the penguins were also given the rights to develop the ~30 acres where the civic arena used to be. the team was given a deadline by the end of october this year to come up with a plan for the land, and they are now requesting an extension.

apparently the hill district was previously considered to be a center of black culture in pittsburgh, but alot of the business and affordable housing was destroyed to build the civic arena using eminent domain.

hill district leaders want to ensure that affordable housing will be a feature of the new developments and that women/minorities will have large roles in the developments. the hill district reps want minority participation of 35 percent and women participation of 15 percent in the pre-development, construction, and post-development phases of the project, while the penguins want 25 and 10 percent respectively.

thoughts?

After the Hill screwed the Pens over during the arena negotiations costing them the casino, I think that they gave up a lot of say over what goes on there. The Pens did a number of things for the Hill already, if I remember a grocery store and several other projects were part of the negotiations.

I would like to see development to make the area around the arena more of a destination. Mixed upscale housing and something like happened at the end of the strip district. For the arena to thrive long term, and the Pens, it can not be the only anchor thing there.

 

[ColePens]

I wish they could put some restaurants and crap on the lower part where the lower parking lot used to be. That could be a hot bed for Duq students and Pens fans. There is just nowhere to eat around the stadium that is good.

I'm totally fine if they just leave it as parking lot space for games. It gets packed anyway. Why can't they just do that? It has to be the biggest money maker of all.

 

[Harv]

It's probably going to stay a parking lot forever.

 

[Ogrezilla]

A section of restaurants and a bunch of parking seems like the way to go.

 

[gdsmack267]

Start building a tunnel to dig under the street and then remove the inidian burial ground under the CEC

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Make a multi story facility with a few levels of underground parking. Have a few pubs and restaurants as well as retail stores. Also include an outside area where the restaurants can have seating. A rooftop viewing area would be great too.

This is all easier said than done, obviously.

 

[Fordy]

**** eminent domain. Give it back.

 

[Shady Machine]

I don't really know the story of the Pens vs the Hill particularly well so it's tough for me to comment. I like the idea of mixed income housing, but understand the struggle with it working, as Darth alluded to. I guess it all depends on the need. Is there a shortage of affordable housing in Pittsburgh?

I do think that the arena is kind of in it's on little bubble in the city though so it would be nice to build an arena district around it. Restaurants, shops, etc. As far as the minority/women involvement in pre development, I think 25/10 seems fair. That doesn't mean more can't or shouldn't be involved, just that the Pens don't have to be forced to more. Of course, I don't think 35/15 seems unreasonable either.

 

[UnrealMachine]

I'd rather they build an international museum or something else of cultural significance instead of more chain restaurants and other garbage that qualifies as "development". There are already plenty of places to eat & shop.

 

[Shady Machine]

I'd rather they build an international museum or something else of cultural significance instead of more chain restaurants and other garbage that qualifies as "development". There are already plenty of places to eat & shop.

I don't disagree with that. In terms of restaurants, I wasn't pushing for chains but new, original concepts. Museum or something of cultural significance sounds good to me. In general, I just wanted to see something that brings people to that area of the city. So if you are going to a Pens game, you aren't just walking over there right before the game and then walking right back.

 

[bathroomSTAAL]

Wal-mart

 

[Jacob]

High rise office and apartments with street-level retail and some green space.

 

[wej20]

Statue to Gladams.

 

[The Old Master]

**** eminent domain. Give it back.

didn't do much with it when we had it. not much for hunting or fishing....raccoons would steel all the corn. you can keep it.

 

[Ogrezilla]

High rise office and apartments with street-level retail and some green space.

this seems like a good plan.

serious question: Can they afford to cut out a large chunk of the parking? I haven't been down there since I moved to SC two years ago, is there a garage at all?

 

[blueliner18]

DAMN... I wish they would have built Consol in Zelienople then I could "expect" to be hired by the Penguins, just because I live there!!!!! I wouldn't have to be qualified or educated!!!! The "Hill District Leaders" should be more concerned with cleaning up what they already have, not trying to spread the mess further. IMHO saying that the Mellon/Civic Arena was "in" the hill district is kind of "stretching" it a few blocks, don't ya think???

 

[Ogrezilla]

DAMN... I wish they would have built Consol in Zelienople then I could "expect" to be hired by the Penguins, just because I live there!!!!! I wouldn't have to be qualified or educated!!!! The "Hill District Leaders" should be more concerned with cleaning up what they already have, not trying to spread the mess further. IMHO saying that the Mellon/Civic Arena was "in" the hill district is kind of "stretching" it a few blocks, don't ya think???

It absolutely used to be the hill district. Then it was torn down to put in the arena.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Also, I'd much rather some good bars and restaurants (ideally not chains) than a museum. I am such a philistine. I have absolutely no desire to go to a museum.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Though I like museums abd such, we have many already. And it defeats the point of giving the property to the Pens with a development deadline. The point was to make the property a tax generator.

That said, the Hill was the most important jazz stop between New York and St. Louis. Few remember that. A House of Blues Restaurant mixed with a blues museum might satisfy the nod to history with development.

 

[blueliner18]

It absolutely used to be the hill district. Then it was torn down to put in the arena.

Still... not really my point. Point being how these people always want something for nothing. I had to become educated and qualified if I wanted a job... even if I wanted to work at Grandma B's I'd still expect them to review my qualifications (not hire me because I live in an adjacent apartment). Living in a specific location, town, county, township, district, or the like should not qualify myself or anyone else to be hired by any organization or business. The HDL's are trying to require the Pens to hire a total of 45% of hill district residence just because A.) they live there, and B.) the area has a high minority population.

 

[Fordy]

DAMN... I wish they would have built Consol in Zelienople then I could "expect" to be hired by the Penguins, just because I live there!!!!! I wouldn't have to be qualified or educated!!!! The "Hill District Leaders" should be more concerned with cleaning up what they already have, not trying to spread the mess further. IMHO saying that the Mellon/Civic Arena was "in" the hill district is kind of "stretching" it a few blocks, don't ya think???

I don't know but the "way you write" and general "ignorance" is "annoying" don't ya think!!!!!!'

 

[Fordy]

Still... not really my point. Point being how these people always want something for nothing. I had to become educated and qualified if I wanted a job... even if I wanted to work at Grandma B's I'd still expect them to review my qualifications (not hire me because I live in an adjacent apartment). Living in a specific location, town, county, township, district, or the like should not qualify myself or anyone else to be hired by any organization or business. The HDL's are trying to require the Pens to hire a total of 45% of hill district residence just because A.) they live there, and B.) the area has a high minority population.

C.) they stole their businesses, homes, and property from them

or "nothing" I guess!!!!

 

[Shady Machine]

The most recent articles I can find on the subject to facilitate discussion. I would assume linking these are allowed:

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2014/06/12/Hill-District-groups-voice-concerns-over-development-of-former-arena-site/stories/201406120304


7 Days ago:

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/2014/08/02/Penguins-seek-more-time-on-Arena-site-development/stories/201408020054

The important sticking points:

Hill leaders are demanding minority participation of 35 percent and women participation of 15 percent in the pre-development, construction, and post-development phases of the project. The Penguins have countered with 25 and 10 percent, he said. The 25 and 10 percent requirements have been in place on city projects for years, he said, and have not done enough to help minorities and women.

“I said from day one that this is an opportunity to lift minorities in the city out of poverty. We’re not willing to commit to a lower goal,†he said, adding that accepting 25 and 10 “will maintain the same poverty levels we’ve had for the last 30 years, which is not my goal.â€

The other big sticking point has been over the level of affordable housing to include in the 1,192-unit residential phase of the development.

Hill leaders have been pressing the Penguins and their residential developer, St. Louis-based McCormack Baron Salazar, to price 30 percent of the units so that they would be affordable to people who make 30 to 80 percent of the area median income. The team has offered to make 20 percent available to those earning 80 percent of the area median.