Jot
Registered User
When we were 6-1, this was my reasoning for why we were a good team.
The red is what i think today.
What is wrong with this team - rant thread
- Thread starter Highlander23
- Start date
TennisMenace
Registered User
The first line is the biggest problem. How do you generate that much offence and still be minus players? The answer is poor decision making when pressured. Too much focus on offensive positioning, not enough on defensive. The key to the improvement of the defensive awareness of the first line is JVR. He has to be better, he also has to know that Kessel is just okay and so is Bozak, so has to be the difference there.
The second problem is the young defence core. Franson has not developed the way Leaf brass has hoped, which is okay. He is what he is at this point. Reilly and Gardiner have the potential for growth and will get better under Randy Carlyle. They just need time.
Kadri will improve defensively and on faceoffs too, but also needs time. Lupul is alot like Kessel, okay defensively, that's why Kulemin is so important there. I'd also like Kulemin to learn from JVR and plant himself in front of the net, he's called "The Tank" for a reason. I still believe Kulemin can be a 2nd line player, he shows flashes, but just needs time to build some more chemistry with Kadri and Lupul, and KNOW his role there.
Clarkson is not a bad player, people need to ease up here. He's an overpaid 3rd line forward, similar to the way Grabovski was, however he is better defensively then he has been. I do believe he'll get there eventually. He'll always be an overpaid 3rd liner, but is a tweener 2/3 forward. Overpaid by about 2 million, which I'd be pissed about, but the cap is going up alot soon so I'll get over it. Raymond is a similar level player as Clarkson, 2/3 forward, but swap the defensive skills for offence. Bolland is a 3rd line center, maybe he would have been more, but he's not.
Bernier is brilliant, Reimer is still good, but the Leafs can't seem to remember how they played in front of him last year. It's like, they got used to Bernier being lawful good that they forget that Reimer is chaotic good. (The nerds will know what I mean here).
The 4th line is the 4th line, neither good nor bad, but necessary. Although I like Bodie there alot.
Randy Carlyle needs to stick with these forward lines and focus on the parts that can be improved with each player. Stop shuffling the lines and let them play through the struggles. Right now, there is a defensive hole on every single line, changing in shape and size night to night. On the first, it is Kessel and Bozak, the second it's Kadri and Lupul, on the third it is Raymond. Couple these with a young defence core, and you get the 2013/14 Toronto Maple Leafs.
The second problem is the young defence core. Franson has not developed the way Leaf brass has hoped, which is okay. He is what he is at this point. Reilly and Gardiner have the potential for growth and will get better under Randy Carlyle. They just need time.
Kadri will improve defensively and on faceoffs too, but also needs time. Lupul is alot like Kessel, okay defensively, that's why Kulemin is so important there. I'd also like Kulemin to learn from JVR and plant himself in front of the net, he's called "The Tank" for a reason. I still believe Kulemin can be a 2nd line player, he shows flashes, but just needs time to build some more chemistry with Kadri and Lupul, and KNOW his role there.
Clarkson is not a bad player, people need to ease up here. He's an overpaid 3rd line forward, similar to the way Grabovski was, however he is better defensively then he has been. I do believe he'll get there eventually. He'll always be an overpaid 3rd liner, but is a tweener 2/3 forward. Overpaid by about 2 million, which I'd be pissed about, but the cap is going up alot soon so I'll get over it. Raymond is a similar level player as Clarkson, 2/3 forward, but swap the defensive skills for offence. Bolland is a 3rd line center, maybe he would have been more, but he's not.
Bernier is brilliant, Reimer is still good, but the Leafs can't seem to remember how they played in front of him last year. It's like, they got used to Bernier being lawful good that they forget that Reimer is chaotic good. (The nerds will know what I mean here).
The 4th line is the 4th line, neither good nor bad, but necessary. Although I like Bodie there alot.
Randy Carlyle needs to stick with these forward lines and focus on the parts that can be improved with each player. Stop shuffling the lines and let them play through the struggles. Right now, there is a defensive hole on every single line, changing in shape and size night to night. On the first, it is Kessel and Bozak, the second it's Kadri and Lupul, on the third it is Raymond. Couple these with a young defence core, and you get the 2013/14 Toronto Maple Leafs.
Last edited:
LeafsNation75
Registered User
I say a major problem is that Reimer gives up a lot of easy goals which should be stopped. Look at the 1st goals he allowed against Detroit, Tampa Bay, Montreal, and New Jersey. If those pucks don't go in the Leafs still have a chance when the score is still 0-0.
The first line needs to be addressed. NOT singularly blaming them for our misfortune but it is a major weakness for this team.
They spend way too much time running around in our own end where they are mediocre at best, rely on a quick counter attack (that yes is often lethal), can't maintain possession in the offensive zone and end up chasing the puck back to our own zone to give up multiple chances to our 1.
We need a center who can hold onto the puck, drive possession, and work down low. When we can do that we're accomplishing two things, we're generating multiple chances through a cycle game and we're keeping the puck far away from our own zone longer. This counterstrike game that they currently play gives up too many chances in our zone in exchange for too few in theirs, it only works when we maintain an inflated PDO (which we can't)...
We need a centre who wants the puck, can slow the play down, dictate the pace, work down low so JVR and Kessel can spend more time in the ozone. Bozak is not only not that guy, those are the exact things he's utterly terrible at.
Corsi matters, it means you're spending more time in their zone and directing more pucks towards their net, which means we're doing all the small things that need to be done to accomplish that. If we can't find a way to keep our best finishers in the proper zone more often we're never going to have consistent success.
Maybe Kadri can develop into that guy, but he's not that guy today, and as much as some would like to think otherwise Bozak is simply not that guy either.
Nonis needs to make a bold stroke here and get an upgrade on our 1c position. Im not a fan of dealing a Kadri+ for Kesler for example, I think it's a move that will cost in the longer term but it would drastically improve the team in the short term.
Bozak is a smart and versatile pivot but he's NOT a 1c on a winning team, I wish people would stop being so sensitive about it. Whether we ship him out or simply bump him down, we're not going to take the next step as a team with him where he is.
They spend way too much time running around in our own end where they are mediocre at best, rely on a quick counter attack (that yes is often lethal), can't maintain possession in the offensive zone and end up chasing the puck back to our own zone to give up multiple chances to our 1.
We need a center who can hold onto the puck, drive possession, and work down low. When we can do that we're accomplishing two things, we're generating multiple chances through a cycle game and we're keeping the puck far away from our own zone longer. This counterstrike game that they currently play gives up too many chances in our zone in exchange for too few in theirs, it only works when we maintain an inflated PDO (which we can't)...
We need a centre who wants the puck, can slow the play down, dictate the pace, work down low so JVR and Kessel can spend more time in the ozone. Bozak is not only not that guy, those are the exact things he's utterly terrible at.
Corsi matters, it means you're spending more time in their zone and directing more pucks towards their net, which means we're doing all the small things that need to be done to accomplish that. If we can't find a way to keep our best finishers in the proper zone more often we're never going to have consistent success.
Maybe Kadri can develop into that guy, but he's not that guy today, and as much as some would like to think otherwise Bozak is simply not that guy either.
Nonis needs to make a bold stroke here and get an upgrade on our 1c position. Im not a fan of dealing a Kadri+ for Kesler for example, I think it's a move that will cost in the longer term but it would drastically improve the team in the short term.
Bozak is a smart and versatile pivot but he's NOT a 1c on a winning team, I wish people would stop being so sensitive about it. Whether we ship him out or simply bump him down, we're not going to take the next step as a team with him where he is.
I agree with you here, it isn't the only problem, but I agree. The question is wait for Kadri, who will be that guy in 2-3 years, or deal him now + for a guy who is that now, but won't be in 2-3 years. Personally, I'd rather wait, seeing as how that's about how much time it will take Reilly and Gardner. Gauthier will be ready by then, so will Granberg and Leivo. Patience is key, none of the past 5 cup winners got there in a year.
johnny_rudeboy
Registered User
What is wrong with this team? More like what is wrong with this franchise?
We lack direction, philosophy, identity and it have been so since JFJ´s days. We have been wasteful with picks and prospects, overspending on limited players, been out of touch with which kind of players you can have success with and point in one direction and then go the opposite way.
Lockout, hard cap on salaries, new rules to promote skill players. Leafs sign 4 defenceman and spend half their cash on the back end on defenders who 3 used to be effective in an era were you where allowed to physically stop the other teams forwards any way you could. Sure, McCabe and Kabs looked good on the PP until the league figured them out. The idea of the big 4 did not really pan out. And neither did the guy who once scored 40 and got signed to a 5-year deal never getting more then 25 again.
Cliff comes back and trade away part of our youth to get a guy who once almost scored 30. He never scored more then 19 after that, and not for us.
Then in comes Burke and tells the press that the Leafs is a bunch of losers and that the team lacks toughness and truculence. After his rant he looks at the roster, what´s left of it and decide that even do there is a big hole in net, no captain, no top end defenders and no first line center, that this is a team good enough to push for the playoffs if he can just add a couple of free agents. So he spend big on two defenders who's claim to fame so far have been to be playing good hockey paired with great partners. Oh, and he show how serious he is about his talk about truculence by trading away two 1st round picks and a 2nd for a small, speedy goal scoring winger who nearly scored 40 one season.
And he continued his team building by adding every player in the league who for one or the other reason did not fit in with their former teams. They could be injured, they could have fallen out with their former franchise or they were simply not good enough and overpaid. Some of these misfits turned their game around, others not. But it is not so much a clear direction in what kind of players you end up with. Some might be fast but fragile and prefer to play a skill game. Others a bit slower and heavier and want to play a rougher brand. A good mix one might say? Not me.
And now we have Nonis who seem to look at this team and think that sure, they are speedy, great on the rush. Perhaps I need to add a slow grinder who can't keep up with the rest of the team, after all, he once scored 30.
We lack direction, philosophy, identity and it have been so since JFJ´s days. We have been wasteful with picks and prospects, overspending on limited players, been out of touch with which kind of players you can have success with and point in one direction and then go the opposite way.
Lockout, hard cap on salaries, new rules to promote skill players. Leafs sign 4 defenceman and spend half their cash on the back end on defenders who 3 used to be effective in an era were you where allowed to physically stop the other teams forwards any way you could. Sure, McCabe and Kabs looked good on the PP until the league figured them out. The idea of the big 4 did not really pan out. And neither did the guy who once scored 40 and got signed to a 5-year deal never getting more then 25 again.
Cliff comes back and trade away part of our youth to get a guy who once almost scored 30. He never scored more then 19 after that, and not for us.
Then in comes Burke and tells the press that the Leafs is a bunch of losers and that the team lacks toughness and truculence. After his rant he looks at the roster, what´s left of it and decide that even do there is a big hole in net, no captain, no top end defenders and no first line center, that this is a team good enough to push for the playoffs if he can just add a couple of free agents. So he spend big on two defenders who's claim to fame so far have been to be playing good hockey paired with great partners. Oh, and he show how serious he is about his talk about truculence by trading away two 1st round picks and a 2nd for a small, speedy goal scoring winger who nearly scored 40 one season.
And he continued his team building by adding every player in the league who for one or the other reason did not fit in with their former teams. They could be injured, they could have fallen out with their former franchise or they were simply not good enough and overpaid. Some of these misfits turned their game around, others not. But it is not so much a clear direction in what kind of players you end up with. Some might be fast but fragile and prefer to play a skill game. Others a bit slower and heavier and want to play a rougher brand. A good mix one might say? Not me.
And now we have Nonis who seem to look at this team and think that sure, they are speedy, great on the rush. Perhaps I need to add a slow grinder who can't keep up with the rest of the team, after all, he once scored 30.
yubbers
Grown Menzez
- May 1, 2013
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schenneuf
Registered User
- Jul 4, 2011
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Here is my 2 cents, for what it's worth. The problem started when Burke was hired. He (maybe it was coming directly from the top) refused to go through a rebuild, rather wanting to "retool". So instead of having Tyler Seguin (I know what some of you are thinking regarding what happened in Boston), Doug Hamilton, and whoever the other player was that Boston drafted with our pick (and at a much more friendly salary and cap hit) we have Kessel at $8 000 000/year who can score goals but is below average defensively. We also have Phaneuf (6-7 000 000/year???). We are almost at the max in terms of cap hit.
On top of all this, we overachieved last year, putting way too high expectations on this team.
I have been a Leafs fan since '76, so I would love to see them in the playoffs each year and truly be Cup contenders. However, I would be willing to wait another 2, 3, 4 or even 5 years if I could see a definite plan on getting there. In my mind, that's through the draft. Yes, you can acquire these players through trades, but as someone mentioned earlier, most are damaged goods (poor defensively, a cancer in the locker room, etc) and it costs more since you typically don't have them on their rookie contracts.
I will not be upset if I'm proven wrong. Only time will tell.
On top of all this, we overachieved last year, putting way too high expectations on this team.
I have been a Leafs fan since '76, so I would love to see them in the playoffs each year and truly be Cup contenders. However, I would be willing to wait another 2, 3, 4 or even 5 years if I could see a definite plan on getting there. In my mind, that's through the draft. Yes, you can acquire these players through trades, but as someone mentioned earlier, most are damaged goods (poor defensively, a cancer in the locker room, etc) and it costs more since you typically don't have them on their rookie contracts.
I will not be upset if I'm proven wrong. Only time will tell.
Meh. Clarkson is terrible, but he shouldn't be on top of anyone's list. He's not capable of single handily driving the 18 wheeler off the cliff. Reimer on the other hand...
Al14
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2007
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Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 79,635
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The Leafs are just a diseased organization. You see it a lot with big market, high profile teams who lack direction. The limelight shines too brightly on mediocre players who are celebrated too much for very insignificant accomplishments, who then buy their own hype and become complacent and easy punching bags for more serious teams. Seems to be the case with the New York Knicks, Dallas Cowboys, Chicago Cubs.
Guys like Kessel, JVR, Gardiner, Bozak are all nice pieces to have, but they're young, come from the NCAA route are highly skilled and don't always pay the heavy price for success. They suffer from young guns syndrome and try to do things the glamorous offensive way when blood, guts and sweat are necessary. That famous story Wayne Gretzky told about losing the cup to the Islanders and seeing them more hobbled up that they were is probably an apt description for the Leafs. I'll bet anything the Bruins were more banged up than Toronto after our playoff series.
Then you have the local celebrities. A guy like Reimer is/was a fan favorite for not accomplishing very much in real NHL terms and seems to have some level of entitlement about job security and respect and reacts poorly to internal competition. Guys like Clarkson, Lupul, Phaneuf go on and on about how great it is to be a Leaf, but I wonder if for all the wrong lifestyle reasons.
Phaneuf is a joke of a character around the NHL. Doesn't command a lot of respect among peers, seems to get made fun of for having a Hollywood lifestyle and sort of crumbles and shows no leadership when there's trouble. He's miscast as a number one, is physically overwhelmed by number one minutes yet still commands elite money. He's basically Bryan McCabe all over again, but he's trading on the marquee name he built for himself when he was a flashy young defenseman who threw big hits and had a big slapshot.
The management seems like a joke. They go on about building a developmental system, but where are all these great prospects? For all the experts and managers we have, they all seem to rot at the AHL level. It's like a ****** corporate culture where everyone talks a good game but nothing gets done. Who the hell are Dave Poulin, Claude Loiselle or Jim Hughes? All these clowns go on TSN Radio and sound so rational, but there are no results.
Guys like Kessel, JVR, Gardiner, Bozak are all nice pieces to have, but they're young, come from the NCAA route are highly skilled and don't always pay the heavy price for success. They suffer from young guns syndrome and try to do things the glamorous offensive way when blood, guts and sweat are necessary. That famous story Wayne Gretzky told about losing the cup to the Islanders and seeing them more hobbled up that they were is probably an apt description for the Leafs. I'll bet anything the Bruins were more banged up than Toronto after our playoff series.
Then you have the local celebrities. A guy like Reimer is/was a fan favorite for not accomplishing very much in real NHL terms and seems to have some level of entitlement about job security and respect and reacts poorly to internal competition. Guys like Clarkson, Lupul, Phaneuf go on and on about how great it is to be a Leaf, but I wonder if for all the wrong lifestyle reasons.
Phaneuf is a joke of a character around the NHL. Doesn't command a lot of respect among peers, seems to get made fun of for having a Hollywood lifestyle and sort of crumbles and shows no leadership when there's trouble. He's miscast as a number one, is physically overwhelmed by number one minutes yet still commands elite money. He's basically Bryan McCabe all over again, but he's trading on the marquee name he built for himself when he was a flashy young defenseman who threw big hits and had a big slapshot.
The management seems like a joke. They go on about building a developmental system, but where are all these great prospects? For all the experts and managers we have, they all seem to rot at the AHL level. It's like a ****** corporate culture where everyone talks a good game but nothing gets done. Who the hell are Dave Poulin, Claude Loiselle or Jim Hughes? All these clowns go on TSN Radio and sound so rational, but there are no results.
Al14
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2007
- 24,271
- 5,677
Don't fear the re-birth of this team if all falls apart.
a few outcomes will occur if the leafs don't make the playoffs:
1. Carlyle will be fired, or both he and Nonis.
2. Some of the core pieces will move: Lupul, Reims, Gunn, Kadri, Gardiner, Franson, etc.
3. draft pics (the 14th pic in the 1st round?), and AHL players making the jump.
Not all bad.
a few outcomes will occur if the leafs don't make the playoffs:
1. Carlyle will be fired, or both he and Nonis.
2. Some of the core pieces will move: Lupul, Reims, Gunn, Kadri, Gardiner, Franson, etc.
3. draft pics (the 14th pic in the 1st round?), and AHL players making the jump.
Not all bad.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 79,635
- 55,597
Eventually we'll be reincarnated as a winner...
Maybe these are our Zhamnov, Bell, Arnason, Daze years and we'll be a power house in a few years like Chicago...
Daisy Jane
everything is gonna be okay!
- Jul 2, 2009
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Who is Jim Hughes?
Anyway - I agree with you for the most part, Stephen on what you said - but I think Leiweke is going to change He doesn't seem like the kind of person who settles for medicore [hence the changes to the soccer/basketball team]
Anyway - I agree with you for the most part, Stephen on what you said - but I think Leiweke is going to change He doesn't seem like the kind of person who settles for medicore [hence the changes to the soccer/basketball team]
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 79,635
- 55,597
All the kid does is show up in big games and somehow he no good enough.
I'm not really singling out 1 player. Not all of my list will get moved. They won't be able to make that many hockey trades this offseason. Plus if Gardiner is as good as you say, he might fetch a good player in return.
Daisy Jane
everything is gonna be okay!
- Jul 2, 2009
- 70,289
- 9,346
imo, and intercantif said the same is that we have to many offensive forwards and not enough two way forwards. A big part of our problem imo is that we have a lot of offensive first players in kessel (which could be allowed), lupul, kadri (i would keep him tho), and we have had a lot of injuries. Imo our defence needs another gleason type of player that shoots right in for franson and we would have a good defence in 2-3 years so we can just allow them to grow.
We are having growing pains, imo Lupul, Clarkson, Franson, Reimer, Raymond all should be on their way out and we can only prolly keep Kulemin/bolland, gardiner and maybe mcclement. Should be a very interesting off season, i love kessel but if we miss the playoffs look at prices u can get for players like kessel and phaneuf and become more of a two-way team like boston instead of a offensive force but miss assignments because everyone is in an offensive mindset.
We are having growing pains, imo Lupul, Clarkson, Franson, Reimer, Raymond all should be on their way out and we can only prolly keep Kulemin/bolland, gardiner and maybe mcclement. Should be a very interesting off season, i love kessel but if we miss the playoffs look at prices u can get for players like kessel and phaneuf and become more of a two-way team like boston instead of a offensive force but miss assignments because everyone is in an offensive mindset.
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