What is wrong with this team - rant thread

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HEAVY DUTY

Thanks to denial, I’m immortal.
Jul 10, 2010
7,003
1,938
Toronto, ON
Okay - and i'm going to tackle the management issue.

Our cupboards aren't to the point where we can just easily flip pieces to help supplement things. to get significant help we're going to have to trade from a position where I don't think any fan really wants to trade from: the youth. that's what cost this team over and over and over again. Nonis flat out said he doesn't want to trade Jake, Morgan, Nazem, JVR and Bernier (and he's getting offers on all of them) - to get instant help.

Also - let's be honest - even if Nonis DID something [and I'm still irritated that we didn't get Robidas, broken leg and all] - if the general consensus is we're not going ANYWHERE this year, why trade at the deadline, when Nonis wants to concentrate on hockey deals for long term help which happens at the Draft, and in the summer?

Pi brought up some points that I didn't hear [ie: he doesn't mind being outshot etc - but again, I don't know what the Leafs use, I heard on Leafs lunch a lot of gms/management staff don't use shots against as much as other criteria - i'm not excusing him, i'm just putting that out there], and 'happy with Carlyle' etc]. I don't know what he's going to say re: Carlyle ont he radio "well, we're just binding our time until we can get him out of here."

I am willing to give him one more summer to fix this team of obvious issues [and I think Leiweke will too -again he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who puts up with crap for too long]. I said it last night, and i even wrote an article about it, this has now become a game of chicken.

Randy isn't changing.
so it's vs. Nonis and Leiweke. Nonis fires Randy or Tim fires both.

this is a definite possibility. coming into the season, leiweke was a huge supporter of nonis and said that he believes in the GM's vision for this team but on the condition that this team improves every season. this hasn't happened this year. we've taken a step back this year with our awful defense and the fact that we get outshot every single game. we played a rough and tough style last year and this year that same team is no where to be seen.

but seeing the raptors and tfc do well this season might not sit well with leiweke if our current collapse comes to fruition and the leafs miss the playoffs. i don't see leiweke as a patient man. he's a guy who wants results and will get it by any means possible. so the firing of nonis and carlyle is a real possibility despite the vote of confidence that leiweke gave nonis at the beginning of the season.
 

Highlander23

Registered User
Mar 26, 2011
2,871
11
France
Hockey is a game of veterans especially in tight playoffs races, do we have enough veterans ? Mcclement, Lupul, bolland, gleason that's it !!

Any news of players-only meeting ? if the captain doesn't act like one, well, strip him of the C already !!
 

Tak7

Registered User
Nov 1, 2009
13,309
5,195
GTA or the UK
This team needs a rebuild. The foundation of this team is built on 1 dimensal wingers, and defenders who can't defend.

*Dimensional

There's real living people who still believe this?

And they expect their opinion to be taken seriously?

Oh the internet lol
 

LeafsFIO*

Guest
An abundance of fans with no competition are what fuel this Organizational Negligence.

Until a 2nd - or even 3rd team is introduced to Southern Ontario you can expect more of the same results regardless of personnel.


Competitive Intrusion


Oh shut up already. The Ottawa Senators are the anti-Leafs in every way possible. They only show the out-of-town scoreboard when we're losing, their fans bring anti-Toronto signs/jerseys to all 41 games no matter who the opposing team is, ffs two years ago they played a "Leafs suck" montage every single game. Adding a team in Hamilton -- which would fail miserably I want to add -- would accomplish nothing. The Senators play the inferiority card nicely, if that's not enough of a motivator, 1-2 more teams in the area won't do any more good.
 

Trapper

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
24,642
12,795
A group of good players can become a good team, with the support of a decent coach.

I'll let you scour the league for plenty of examples of this.

A group of good players can also never become a good team.
Every year you must look at teams and think why cant they make the playoffs with this kind of talent?
I'll let you scour the league for these examples.
 

Longshot

Registered User
Jul 2, 2008
11,161
312
Ontario, Canada
It's pretty simple really: the team gives up way too many goals against. It's not a new problem and has been happening all season long.

Not rocket science.
 

Tak7

Registered User
Nov 1, 2009
13,309
5,195
GTA or the UK
A group of good players can also never become a good team.
Every year you must look at teams and think why cant they make the playoffs with this kind of talent?
I'll let you scour the league for these examples.

Think you just made my point for me.

Thanks pal
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
1,941
*Dimensional

There's real living people who still believe this?

And they expect their opinion to be taken seriously?

Oh the internet lol

well the term is the oft used phrase when describing players that are not well rounded.

it's like those skill bar ratings you see in a console hockey game.

they have rating bars for skating, shooting,defensive play, yada yada.

simply put , this team has to many guys who have imbalanced bars and on the whole, when all added up, does not make for a very good team
 

blueberrie

Registered User
Mar 23, 2010
2,733
404
*Dimensional

There's real living people who still believe this?

And they expect their opinion to be taken seriously?

Oh the internet lol

The top six scoring mainly comes from Kessel, JVR, Lupul and Kadri. I see two wingers who are among the league worst defensively, and one who's effort fluctuates wildly. Then we also have a young C who's still learning the ropes, but is still very raw defensively.

I'd say one-dimensional sums up our top 6 quite well. All four of those players would benefit and be at their best when insulated by better defensive players or be hidden against weaker competition.

Then you look at the D core. Gardiner, Franson, and Rielly are all fairly bad defensively and would once again benefit from a stabilizing defensive guy next to them, or weaker match ups.

>=50% of the top 6 and D core is unable to be relied on in any defensive situations and are best suited in offensive/easier opportunities only. They need more two way guys who can go be matched up against the rest of the leagues #1 units and be able to win that matchup.
 

sommervr

Registered User
Feb 25, 2013
1,709
19
There is something rotten about these players as a whole. A team is generally a group of guys that care about each other and play harder for each other when the chips are down. The core guys on this team just don't seem to be able to dig deep when it matters.

An example is when Ranger went down. I can think of at least 5 guys that probably didn't give a crap. Also when was the last time the team bailed out Riemer?

There is something rotten in this team and I think it starts from the top.
 

BertCorbeau

F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
Jan 6, 2012
56,189
38,203
Simcoe County
I just don't get it .. Last year they had an "us against the world" mentality, playing hard for one another and being hard to play against in the mould of our coach

Over the off season Nonis does some dealings to make this a better "Carlyle" team

... This season I've haven't seen anything that constitutes a "Carlyle" team on a consistent basis .. I'm truly at a loss as to what the hell is going on
 

egd27

exspecta usque ad proximum annum
Sponsor
Jul 8, 2011
17,105
13,011
GTA
It's simple.....the team gives up too many goals.

Here the GA / 82 games for the past 6 SC Finalists and some of this year's contenders, and at bottom are the Leafs GA / 82.

Year | Team | GA AVG | GA per 82 Games
2008 | DETROIT | 2.18 | 179
| PITTSBURGH | 2.58 | 212
| | |
2009 | PITTSBURGH | 2.84 | 233
| DETROIT | 2.93 | 240
| | |
2010 | CHICAGO | 2.48 | 203
| PHILADELPHIA | 2.71 | 222
| | |
2011 | BOSTON | 2.20 | 180
| VANCOUVER | 2.30 | 189
| | |
2012 | LOS ANGELES | 2.07 | 170
| NEW JERSEY | 2.50 | 205
| | |
2013 | CHICAGO | 2.02 | 166
| BOSTON | 2.21 | 181
| | |
2014 | BOSTON | 2.08 | 171
| ST LOUIS | 2.21 | 181
| SAN JOSE | 2.32 | 190
| ANAHEIM | 2.45 | 201
| PITTSBURGH | 2.46 | 202
| CHICAGO | 2.47 | 203
| LOS ANGELES | 2.04 | 167
| | |
2008 | TORONTO | 3.12 | 256
2009 | TORONTO | 3.49 | 286
2010 | TORONTO | 3.21 | 263
2011 | TORONTO | 2.99 | 245
2012 | TORONTO | 3.16 | 259
2013 | TORONTO | 2.67 | 219
2014 | TORONTO | 3.04 | 249

Aside from the 2009 anomaly, the table shows that a successful team must keep their GA around or below the 200 mark over the course of a season.

If you don't have the players that are defensively inclined (we don't) then there better be a damn good system in place to compensate (there isn't).

What's wrong with this team? The focus is on the wrong aspect of the game.


EDIT: To add to this, the top four guys that aren't signed for next year?
Bolland
Kulemin
McClemment
Ranger

Oh well, maybe there's a few 20-25 goal guys out there that can fill in.
 
Last edited:

Billy6

Registered User
Dec 23, 2012
353
1
What is wrong with this team? Maybe the problem is we keep bringing back the guys that have been here for five plus years that have accomplished squat. Oh sorry, they made the playoffs last year only to author the most embarrassing loss in franchise history. They accomplished that.

We don't have players that are either a) good enough or b) are skilled enough but aren't winners.

IMO nobody on this roster is untouchable with the exception of possibly Rielly.

If this team doesn't make the playoffs that is a complete disgrace and as much as people will just try to blame it on this last week and Reimer that's only telling part of the story. The reality is that this team has been inconsistent and underachieving all year and that this core group will have one playoff appearance in the Kessel/Phaneuf era to show for all of the money they are paying these two. Not good enough. Not even close.

This team is light years from being a contender and don't tell me that coaching is the problem. They sucked under Wilson and they suck under Carlyle. It's the players that need to be replaced, not the coach.
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
1,941
I just don't get it .. Last year they had an "us against the world" mentality, playing hard for one another and being hard to play against in the mould of our coach

Over the off season Nonis does some dealings to make this a better "Carlyle" team

... This season I've haven't seen anything that constitutes a "Carlyle" team on a consistent basis .. I'm truly at a loss as to what the hell is going on

"us against the world" sir, you have nailed it to the core.

i'll toss out 3 names that played that way last year.

Grabo ,Koma,Fraser and even Mac had a bit of that edge.
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
1,941
What is wrong with this team? Maybe the problem is we keep bringing back the guys that have been here for five plus years that have accomplished squat. Oh sorry, they made the playoffs last year only to author the most embarrassing loss in franchise history. They accomplished that.

We don't have players that are either a) good enough or b) are skilled enough but aren't winners.

IMO nobody on this roster is untouchable with the exception of possibly Rielly.

If this team doesn't make the playoffs that is a complete disgrace and as much as people will just try to blame it on this last week and Reimer that's only telling part of the story. The reality is that this team has been inconsistent and underachieving all year and that this core group will have one playoff appearance in the Kessel/Phaneuf era to show for all of the money they are paying these two. Not good enough. Not even close.

This team is light years from being a contender and don't tell me that coaching is the problem. They sucked under Wilson and they suck under Carlyle. It's the players that need to be replaced, not the coach.

I have to put Berny on the no touch list
 

stealth1

Registered User
Aug 28, 2009
2,971
1,485
Niagara, Ontario
I don't see this team ever going far in the playoffs the way they are currently built. This is pretty much the same team that Ron Wilson coached but with better goaltending. Changing coaches won't change much til you get better 2 way players. The team has too many players that play run and gun.
 

LeafOfBread

Registered User
Feb 25, 2010
13,107
0
Mississauga, ON
Here's what I posted in another thread

Sure, we may not be the only team that allows 2-on-1s and breakaways and all that fun stuff, but there are so many fundamental problems beyond that. The ability to make a simple breakout pass, the ability to gain and maintain possession, limiting shots against/scoring chances, being able to close out games (I know we have a good record when leading after 2, but we have the most blown 3rd period leads), and overall just being able to keep the foot on the gas from start to finish, or at least starting off well which we rarely do.

I don't think Randy is the coach for this team. He seems to rub a lot of guys the wrong way, not just here but back in Anaheim as well, and many players have been rather outspoken about him in negative ways. He's a little too old school and clearly whatever he's trying to preach isn't going in the heads of the team. I don't think he's a good motivator either, I Mean you saw on 24/7 how he was saying things like "WE SUCK, WE'RE HORRIBLE" when the team was down. He also says himself that he stays out of the locker room and lets the leadership work itself out? I don't know, a little questionable there. They need a new voice, and I think they need someone young who can effectively communicate at their level, not an old school guy who freezes out players.

I think the conditioning & strength team also needs to be replaced. I remember reading about how when Anthony Belza was hired, they started doing a lot of aerobic stuff and riding bikes for long sessions multiple times a week. It goes back to the whole anaerobic vs aerobic exercise, hockey as a sport is a lot more anaerobic, and while riding the bike might increase cardiovascular endurance, it slows players down overall in a sport where explosiveness is key; those kinds of workouts are more akin for bicyclists. Speaking of which, the workouts that I remember reading about the Leafs doing, led by Belza, consisted of regimes designed by Lance Armstrong's trainer. If that's the case, then I don't even know what to say. Why the **** are hockey players doing workouts designed for cyclists? That's ridiculous. Roberts even blasted the Leafs training program for this kind of stuff, and I see why. I mean look at Kadri, they were trying to turn him into a bodybuilder by having him take in as many calories and trying to force another 10-15 pounds on himself; you saw how much it affected his skating and even a few years later his skating is still not where it was when he was in junior. When Kadri went to train with Roberts the next off-season, he was a lot stronger and faster despite those idiotic comments by Dallas Eakins and the Leafs media about him being fat out of camp.

I usually disagree with Interactif on most things, but he nailed it with his complaints of the team's strength and conditioning and Belza's training programs earlier in the season and beyond.

I'm not going to pretend like I'm some expert who knows it all, but generally from what I've gathered reading about Belza's training programs, Roberts and other people with a background in sports training/kinesiology and those who do hockey specific training have been rather critical of aerobic training and movements and the kind of stuff Belza apparently does with the team.
 

Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
70,377
9,634
I also think - if the Leafs miss the playoffs - [and I'm still thinking they can make it]..

in the last three years this team has been part of three mindblowingly devastating collapses

the Eighteen Wheeler
Game Seven
And how this one shapes up

Eleven players were part of it, remove Orr - he's moot in this discussion.

Reimer
Phaneuf, Gunnarson Gardiner [for the most part]
McClemment [Orr]
Lupul [Kadri], Kulemin
Bozak, Kessel [JVR]

(Kadri wasn't really a part of the 18 wheeler, neither was JVR, and Orr's just Orr)

that's horrendously bad. I honestly think there needs to be a shot across the bow of this team. I personally would at this point, let McClemment walk, trade Lupul, and quite frankly - and I don't mind him - if you can get a great deal on Phaneuf - I'd do it.

I don't have an issue with Clarkson - [brutal year], but if you can get rid of him, I'd do it, and I'd just make this team older in some positions.
 

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