What if Malkin doesn't get injured in the 2008 playoffs?

[daver]

Through Game 1 of the ECF that year, Malkin was at a 1.70 PPG. In Game 1 (or Game 2) of that series, he gets his bell rung and is not the same afterwards. He plays at a 0.50 PPG the rest of the playoffs.

The Pens do not lose a beat in the Flyers series and are 13-2 going into the SCF and have a better GF and GA than the Wings. The Pens get clearly outplayed in the SCF and are lucky to get the series to Game 6.

If Malkin stays healthy, did they have a chance to win that year?

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[JackSlater]

A better chance than they had in terms of what happened but I doubt it. Detroit was comfortably the best team in the NHL that year. Malkin was really, really bad in those finals though.

 

[VanIslander]

What if...?

Counterfactual reasoning has its place but not at the expense of those healthier and wiser. (From 2010 to 2022 Malkin missed nearly half the games due to this, that and the other injuries.)

What if Gary Suter hadn't crosschecked Paul Kariya in the head? Yeah. What if the Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia let their players go? Yeah.

 

[Dingo]

I guess theyd have a better chance, but I'd say Pens fans should feel lucky about injuries as they probably helped them win in 09 more than the Wings got help in 08.

 

[Midnight Judges]

What if...?

Counterfactual reasoning has its place but not at the expense of those healthier and wiser. (From 2010 to 2022 Malkin missed nearly half the games due to this, that and the other injuries.)

It's more like 26% - which is still a lot.

 

[VanIslander]

It's more like 26% - which is still a lot.

Not 'like'.

Over a 82-game 13-season 1066-NHL game stretch he only played in 743 of them, which is 69%.

67, 43, 75, 31, 60, 69, 57, 66, 78, 68, 55, 33, 41

... absent 1/3rd of the time due to this injury or that.

He's okay. He's made over $140 million.

What if he hadn't been so often injured?

Hashtag Penguins shoulda been a dynasty based on what people were saying back then. Instead, this era has them in the same breath as Tampa and Chicago.

 

[daver]

I guess theyd have a better chance, but I'd say Pens fans should feel lucky about injuries as they probably helped them win in 09 more than the Wings got help in 08.

Gonchar was hobbled after the OV hit in Round 2 in 2009 so they had some injury issues too. Datysuk was having a very mediocre playoff before getting injured.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Not 'like'.

Over a 82-game 13-season 1066-NHL game stretch he only played in 743 of them, which is 69%.

67, 43, 75, 31, 60, 69, 57, 66, 78, 68, 55, 33, 41

... absent 1/3rd of the time due to this injury or that.

He's okay. He's made over $140 million.

What if he hadn't been so often injured?

Hashtag Penguins shoulda been a dynasty based on what people were saying back then. Instead, this era has them in the same breath as Tampa and Chicago.

The Penguins did not play 1066 games in the span from 2009-2010 to 2021-2022. They played 993.

 

[Dingo]

Gonchar was hobbled after the OV hit in Round 2 in 2009 so they had some injury issues too. Datysuk was having a very mediocre playoff before getting injured.

Lidstrom and Datsyuk shouldnt have even been playing. They only played because it was the Finals. Lidstrom missed at least one game in the Finals, and it was his first miss in his 200+ game career. Scrotum torn open by Patrick Sharp's stick.

 

[buffalowing88]

A better chance than they had in terms of what happened but I doubt it. Detroit was comfortably the best team in the NHL that year. Malkin was really, really bad in those finals though.

I remember thinking that the Red Wings were in a class of their own that year. They were just a well-oiled machine and the Pens were at that point that a lot of teams hit right before they go on a championship run where they were not experienced enough to quite get over the hump and their youth was exposed just short of the Cup.

 

[JackSlater]

Lidstrom and Datsyuk shouldnt have even been playing. They only played because it was the Finals. Lidstrom missed at least one game in the Finals, and it was his first miss in his 200+ game career. Scrotum torn open by Patrick Sharp's stick.

Yeah Lidstrom had surgery before the Stanley Cup finals I believe, but he didn't miss a game in the actual finals. He was one of the six players Detroit had miss the final western conference final game. Hossa was limping around though, so I guess Gonchar had company across the ice.

 

[Dingo]

Yeah Lidstrom had surgery before the Stanley Cup finals I believe, but he didn't miss a game in the actual finals. He was one of the six players Detroit had miss the final western conference final game. Hossa was limping around though, so I guess Gonchar had company across the ice.

ah, ok. I knew he missed a game because someone at work called him a 'p***y Swede' for sitting.

 

[daver]

Lidstrom and Datsyuk shouldnt have even been playing. They only played because it was the Finals. Lidstrom missed at least one game in the Finals, and it was his first miss in his 200+ game career. Scrotum torn open by Patrick Sharp's stick.

We can play the "who got lucky" game all day. The Pens were unlucky to lose one or two seasons of winning the Cup due to Crosby's injuries.

And while I think the 2008 Wings beat any other Cup winner from the post lockout era more times than not, it was unlucky for the Pens to have faced that caliber of team in 2008 as they could have won against a few other Cup winners that were on the weak side.

But the OP isn't saying the Pens win with a healthy Malkin. It is about pointing this out as a narrative that doesn't get talked about very much since it likely would not have mattered.

 

[Dingo]

We can play the "who got lucky" game all day. The Pens were unlucky to lose one or two seasons of winning the Cup due to Crosby's injuries.

And while I think the 2008 Wings beat any other Cup winner from the post lockout era more times than not, it was unlucky for the Pens to have faced that caliber of team in 2008 as they could have won against a few other Cup winners that were on the weak side.

But the OP isn't saying the Pens win with a healthy Malkin. It is about pointing this out as a narrative that doesn't get talked about very much since it likely would not have mattered.

I'm sorry, I completely misunderstood your thread. Even re-reading it now it comes across as, "If Malkin stays healthy, do they have a chance to win that year?"

My mistake.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Well, now I don't understand the thread at all anymore then...but I am relived that the answer is "no, the Pens could not have won that series."

The only thing that gave us a sliver of hope was Osgood, so unless healthy Malkin just absolutely owns Osgood with mid-range slappers repetitively in multiple games in this scenario, I think we're all set...

 

[MadLuke]

The series went in 6, 2 Detroit wins were by a single goal, Malkin being +1 instead of -2, could have been significant.

But it is impossible to say the Penguins win, leaving us with the usual answer for that type of question, maybe they do.... Malkin can be one of the best playoff performer of all time and was in his very peak, if adding something like that to a team in a series that went in 6 with 2 games won by a single goal cannot turn things around, what would it mean for all that talk about individual player we do as if it matter.....

 

[Michael Farkas]

I don't think we can just insert a couple of Malkin points and call it a day. That Detroit team did what it had to. If they needed to score another goal because Malkin scored, they would have found a way.

Once they cast aside old Hasek, how many leads did Detroit surrender in the back half of a game? Talbot scored with an extra skater in game 5 of the Final I believe and even that was only won by Pittsburgh because of one of the greatest goalie performances I have seen by Fleury.

That '08 team was efficient and effective. If Malkin had a goal or two to contribute, Detroit would have had two or three.

 

[MadLuke]

And what if Malkin score 8 pts instead of 3 like he will do the next year ?

Obviously, Detroit being the better team can find a way to win, I think they can go from 85% chance of winning down to 75% with an healthy Malkin or something like that.

 

[Dingo]

I don't think we can just insert a couple of Malkin points and call it a day. That Detroit team did what it had to. If they needed to score another goal because Malkin scored, they would have found a way.

Once they cast aside old Hasek, how many leads did Detroit surrender in the back half of a game? Talbot scored with an extra skater in game 5 of the Final I believe and even that was only won by Pittsburgh because of one of the greatest goalie performances I have seen by Fleury.

That '08 team was efficient and effective. If Malkin had a goal or two to contribute, Detroit would have had two or three.

one more thing to add to that thought process - you cant just add an average Malkin game because he will be removing 20 minutes of icetime from the other centers. He makes them a lot stronger, but its not as simple as 'its the same team PLUS Malkin'

Baseball is always easier to isolate. If the Jays lose Joe Carter in 93, they dont field and bat with 8 batters. someone steps in, and bats with probably 8% less chance of hitting, and probably a very similar fielding percentage.

 

[GMR]

Well, now I don't understand the thread at all anymore then...but I am relived that the answer is "no, the Pens could not have won that series."

The only thing that gave us a sliver of hope was Osgood, so unless healthy Malkin just absolutely owns Osgood with mid-range slappers repetitively in multiple games in this scenario, I think we're all set...

Osgood was terrific in the 2008 playoffs. 1.55 GAA and .930 SV%.

I know he's not your cup of tea but still...............

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

Not 'like'.

Over a 82-game 13-season 1066-NHL game stretch he only played in 743 of them, which is 69%.

67, 43, 75, 31, 60, 69, 57, 66, 78, 68, 55, 33, 41

... absent 1/3rd of the time due to this injury or that.

He's okay. He's made over $140 million.

What if he hadn't been so often injured?

Hashtag Penguins shoulda been a dynasty based on what people were saying back then. Instead, this era has them in the same breath as Tampa and Chicago.

In the same breath as, but still better than Tampa and Chicago.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Osgood was terrific in the 2008 playoffs. 1.55 GAA and .930 SV%.

I know he's not your cup of tea but still...............

I know what the stats say. He was better in '09. The only shred of hope I had for that series in '08 was the scrambly play and sloppy rebound control of Osgood. He clearly got the job done, ultimately...but there wasn't any other exploitable part...

 

[GMR]

I know what the stats say. He was better in '09. The only shred of hope I had for that series in '08 was the scrambly play and sloppy rebound control of Osgood. He clearly got the job done, ultimately...but there wasn't any other exploitable part...

Not even the Lilja/Lebda pairing?

 

[Michael Farkas]

Not even the Lilja/Lebda pairing?

Heh, I wish. Unfortunately, with Maxime Talbot playing like 17 minutes a night in that series, we didn't have the depth to take advantage of it. Young Kennedy had no idea what would keep him in the league and then...Adam Hall...? Once Malkin was diminished, it was a one line team basically...you can't touch that Detroit team with one line...

 

[MadLuke]

one more thing to add to that thought process - you cant just add an average Malkin game because he will be removing 20 minutes of icetime from the other centers. He makes them a lot stronger, but its not as simple as 'its the same team PLUS Malkin'

Malkin was playing 20 minutes a game that series, he was already taking someone else time, it is changing a hurt playing badly Malkin for peak Malkin.