What happened to Brodeur's legacy?

[895]

While he was playing, he was a consensus top 3 goalie of all time. Roy, Hasek, Brodeur. You could put them in any order and no one could really tell you you were wrong.

Now a few years after his retirement, it seems he has plummeted down the all time rankings. Everyone has Roy/Hasek as 1/2 and Brodeur is only top 5 or top 10. The same tier as guys like Sawchuk or Dryden.

What happened?

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[Brodeur]

Maybe more of a discussion for the History of Hockey board.

One factor with time is that many fans nowadays might judge him solely based on save percentage numbers that they find on hockeydb. Even as a Devils fan, I would concede that there were better goalies at stopping the puck. Some fans discount Brodeur for having Stevens/Niedermayer in the first half of his career. Even though Brodeur had some of his best individual seasons after Stevens/Niedermayer were no longer there, some discredit the second half of his career as merely a product of a fabled system.

It's a little bit more difficult to quantify how much his puckhandling helped control the game. I'm always quick to point out that the Devils were always among the least penalized teams during Brodeur's run. Yield fewer PPs you tend to give up fewer goals, but the lazy argument is that it was somehow only due to the trap.

One argument I read recently was that Scott Clemmensen and Kevin Weekes put up similar numbers when Brodeur was hurt in 2008-09. But my memory was that despite the numbers, Weekes struggled and that was why Clemmensen got the number of starts that he did. Weekes was a UFA after that season and never got a contract.

My counter argument was that Peter Budaj put up similar numbers to Jonathan Quick in 2016-17 and never once did I think that was proof that Quick was a product of the system. I saw it as Budaj being a house of cards (as did Kings management who made the unorthodox move to bring in Ben Bishop).

 

[HockeyVirus]

He didn't know when to hang em up and that impacted perception IMO. If he went out on top like a lot of stars he is still there.

 

[WarriorOfGandhi]

his time with New Jersey really tainted his legacy as a Blue

 

[Doctor No]

While he was playing, he was a consensus top 3 goalie of all time. Roy, Hasek, Brodeur. You could put them in any order and no one could really tell you you were wrong.

None of this is true.

If you believe this was true, then that explains what happened to his legacy since. Brodeur is well-considered as a top ten goaltender of all time, but top three is (and was) a stretch.

 

[Raistlin]

you mean the Nanny/Sister-in-law incident?

 

[Voight]

People putting him top 3 was a result of recent bias / what have you done for me lately mentality.

Post retirement allows you to do a deep dive into his career, people tend to realize that while 4 Vezinas is great theres also context that should apply such as level of competition.

 

[895]

None of this is true.

If you believe this was true, then that explains what happened to his legacy since. Brodeur is well-considered as a top ten goaltender of all time, but top three is (and was) a stretch.

I don't consider Brodeur to be on Hasek/Roy's level but I feel like in 2008, many people did.

There used to be some website called brodeurisafraud.com or something and it was devoted to "exposing" him and I remember most people thinking this guy was a crank/contrarian/troll.

 

[AfroThunder396]

The statistical renaissance we've seen the past ~10 years tends to lionize goalies with strong save percentages while dismissing wins as a team stat. Both of which disproportionately harm Brodeur more than his cohorts.

A lot of these rigorous statistical models are not really fair to Brodeur because his impact on the game was difficult to quantify with traditional metrics, and nearly all of his career was played before shooting data was recorded. So there's a lot of speculation about his situational performance and shot quality

Kids these days like the Devils because Jack Hughes is cool and they score a lot of goals, but even just a decade ago the New Jersey Devils were considered public enemy #1 by mainstream fans and media. Fans really enjoyed taking Devils players down a peg or two - since they killed hockey, you know? - and so a lot of people are overly dismissive of Brodeur because they hated the team he played for. I'm convinced that if Brodeur played in Toronto or Montreal that his face would be on the loonie by now.

I think if he retired after the 2012 run people would remember him a lot more fondly. He was bad his last few seasons.

 

[FrankSidebottom]

He was truly awful in the middle of his prime on a powerhouse team of St. Louis. Just .899 save percentage tells a lot and hurts his legacy.

 

[The Andrew Peeke Fan]

People watched the games.

 

[jigglysquishy]

There was never a point where Brodeur was consensus top 3 all time.

He was considered the consensus top 3 goalie for post 1980 hockey, but always below Roy and Hasek.

I have him 4th all time behind Plante, but there are strong arguments to be made to put Hall or Sawchuk or Dryden ahead.

 

[Pucklington]

According to HF?

 

[Doctor No]

I don't consider Brodeur to be on Hasek/Roy's level but I feel like in 2008, many people did.

There used to be some website called brodeurisafraud.com or something and it was devoted to "exposing" him and I remember most people thinking this guy was a crank/contrarian/troll.

I'll pull some of the contemporary opinions when I'm back with my publications. My recollection is that no one (of note) had Brodeur in "top three" territory.

 

[WarriorofTime]

4 Vezinas, 3 Stanley Cups. 1st all time in Career Wins by a landslide. Starting Goaltender on the 2002 Gold Medal winning team. I'd say his legacy is doing just fine, regardless of anyone's idiosyncratic "ranking"

 

[Kupo]

Nothing has happened to his legacy. He’s still a top-5 all timer who revolutionized the position and game.

 

[The Tourist]

He was never top 3 for me. Top 10 is where I’ve always ranked him even when he was playing.

 

[Devilsfan2326]

Best puck-handling goalie of all time. He was a third defenseman back there. One cannot judge him on only his goaltending. He also played defense.

 

[Jumptheshark]

While he was playing, he was a consensus top 3 goalie of all time. Roy, Hasek, Brodeur. You could put them in any order and no one could really tell you you were wrong.

Now a few years after his retirement, it seems he has plummeted down the all time rankings. Everyone has Roy/Hasek as 1/2 and Brodeur is only top 5 or top 10. The same tier as guys like Sawchuk or Dryden.

What happened?

The people who are down playings Marty's legacy are doing the same thing to Gretz legacy. Marty hung on for 3 years too long

 

[tarheelhockey]

People putting him top 3 was a result of recent bias / what have you done for me lately mentality.

Post retirement allows you to do a deep dive into his career, people tend to realize that while 4 Vezinas is great theres also context that should apply such as level of competition.

He was being called the best goalie of all time at almost exactly the same time Niedermayer was a top-3 defenseman and Forsberg was the purest talent to ever play.

Those views didn’t come from credible historians or serious analysts. It was a phenomenon of an age when the NHL had become addicted to demolishing records and rolling out the Next Gretzky at regular intervals. It became a PR exercise for the NHL and its media partners to pimp star players as the “arguable” GOAT, and Brodeur’s pursuit of the wins record was a low hanging opportunity to hype him as the next Roy or whatever. And so you end up with a cohort of fans who heard that mantra and are left scratching their heads as to why others don’t feel the same way.

None of this takes away from Brodeur (or Nieds or Forsberg). He is a top 10 goalie of all time. Just not top 3.

 

[The Tourist]

Best puck-handling goalie of all time. He was a third defenseman back there. One cannot judge him on only his goaltending. He also played defense.

Turco was a better puck handler.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Who is “everyone”?

 

[SomeDude]

He ate it.

 

[norrisnick]

Pretty sure he had to give that up in the divorce settlement.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

He ate it .