Olympics: What does your nations roster look like if NHLers don't go?

[Czechboy]

The team gets the money. I remember reading that the previous 3 seasons matter, and each one pays out a certain amount with more emphasis on the last year. So the team that had the player 3 years before NHL contract, get the money. If it's been the same team for those 3 years then they keep all of it, if not then it's divided by the teams player grew in the last 3 years. Something like that. Please correct if wrong.

I think you're right and I don't even think it is unfair since Swedes and Finns are developing better Czechs then the Czechs lately.lol

But Czechs do well till 16 and then lose everyone for free. Either CHL, Swede or Finland and eventually DEL.

To be clear, I blame the Czechs for not having better leagues for the kids to play in. Still has to hurt!

 

[Marioesque]

I think you're right and I don't even think it is unfair since Swedes and Finns are developing better Czechs then the Czechs lately.lol

But Czechs do well till 16 and then lose everyone for free. Either CHL, Swede or Finland and eventually DEL.

To be clear, I blame the Czechs for not having better leagues for the kids to play in. Still has to hurt!

Definitely, and it's still the same for SEL and Liiga losing their home grown stars too. NHL takes what it wants. They should raise the transfer bonuses for teams anywhere, because they really get pennies to the dollar.

For what I understand, Hockey is not #1 in Czech so it's not surprising that the domestic league doesn't churn out talent as it used to and the money is not there to keep the biggest talent long enough. KHL took a lot out of those leagues and the worst is of course felt lower in the food chain.

 

[Czechboy]

Definitely, and it's still the same for SEL and Liiga losing their home grown stars too. NHL takes what it wants. They should raise the transfer bonuses for teams anywhere, because they really get pennies to the dollar.

A swede poster was saying they aren't as good in Europe anymore because over 150 are in North America. It's definitely a better problem to have then the Czech one but still a big problem.

 

[Marioesque]

A swede poster was saying they aren't as good in Europe anymore because over 150 are in North America. It's definitely a better problem to have then the Czech one but still a big problem.

Yes and the KHL was pretty much made of the "not quite NHL yet" Czechs, Finns and some Swedes so the markets dried out of top end talent in smaller leagues.

 

[vorky]

Yes and the KHL was pretty much made of the "not quite NHL yet" Czechs, Finns and some Swedes so the markets dried out of top end talent in smaller leagues.

I have explained it already but I can repeat.

I see two biggest problems: 1) NHL Transfer Agreement (NHLTA), 2) IIHF incompetency

1.NHLTA gives the NHL clubs a right to sign any player, including a player under valid Euro contract. It simply means the European contracts are not worth of a paper they are written on. NHL pays these leagues some fixed sum, which do not cover the clubs´ investment on development of the players. Btw, NHL pays as a league, not individual NHL clubs.

Btw, a decade or so ago (pre Malkin/Ovie) the Russians negotiated about NHLTA and agreed to everything except one point - the Russians wanted the NHL clubs not have any right to take a player under contract in Russia. NHL refused.

What NHL pays is a development fee. But, a transfer fee - negotiated on case-to-case & depending on player´s skills - do not exist in Euro-NHL transfers. Btw, in soccer both mechanisms exists - development fees (U23) & transfer fees which goes to millions.

2.IIHF does not effectively rule the international transfers of under 18 players. For example, SHL club signs a Czech young player for free. So, his Czech club gets nothing. Why?

Another problem are out-clauses for free in case of offer from foreign, usually KHL but not only, club. Here I blame the IIHF & those clubs accepting such clause when singing the contract with player. For example, KHL rules forbid such kind of clauses. I do not understand why other leagues can not do the same.

Yes, KHL clubs get the better players from European leagues, but (if not that out-clause) the KHL club needs to negotiate about a transfer fee with that European club. There are examples when clubs agreed on terms. And also we have examples when the agreement was not reached & the player stayed in his current club (for example, from my head, Avtomobilist wanted a goalie from Liberec but Liberec refused, Dinamo Minsk wanted a goalie from Sparta who refused the offer). See? The KHL club has no right to take that player, there needs to be agreement between a player, his current team & KHL club. With NHLTA in place, the NHL club just needs to agree with a player (not that difficult) while European club´s interest is ignored, irrelevant.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Every country should agree to send their WJC team. Problem solved.

 

[chauron]

Really? Why would you care? Its such a pointless tournament without NHLers, and AHLers for that matter. It answers absolutely no questions, while being in a generally bad time zone for most hockey fans, while having a mediocre level of hockey and it all takes place in a country that should not be hosting any international event. All it does is make me hate the IIHF and IOC even more.

it’s ”our players” who play in our leagues, of course it’s easier to accept them playing. They’re not nobodies to us and get to play for olympic gold.

 

[Silky Johnson]

it’s ”our players” who play in our leagues, of course it’s easier to accept them playing. They’re not nobodies to us and get to play for olympic gold.

Sure. I am fine to stipulate that it means something to you and the actual players. I just have issue with anyone describing it as more than a 3rd tier hockey tournament without NHLers.

 

[Urbanskog]

Every country should agree to send their WJC team. Problem solved.

Latvia and Denmark already completed the WJC tournament this year and China would be terribly humiliated + the entire KRS project would have been for nothing.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Latvia and Denmark already completed the WJC tournament this year and China would be terribly humiliated + the entire KRS project would have been for nothing.

Fair points about Latvia and Denmark. I think bigger humiliation for China would be good. I won’t expand on the reasons, but I think they are self explanatory.

 

[romelson]

Thats not true. He was horrible. Did nothing. 1 point in 7 games. He was supposed to be one of the big leaders but did not show up

Pure BS.
Lindberg is ahead of the majority of forwards listed in any suggested Sweden lineup in this thread.

 

[Frederik95]

Well Denmark would be somewhat similar but lack the top-end talent of Ehlers and Bjorkstrand a lot combined a major blow in terms of goaltending with Freddie Andersen missing in the net.

So with that:
Mikkel Bødker - Peter Regin - Nicklas Jensen
Frederik Storm - Frans Nielsen - Nick Olesen
Patrick Russell - Julian Jakobsen - Nicolai Meyer
Patrick Bjorkstrand - Jesper Jensen - Mathias From
Morten Madsen, Morten Poulsen

Philip Larsen - Oliver Lauridsen
Markus Lauridsen - Jesper Aabo Jensen
Oliver Larsen - Nicholas B. Jensen
Emil Kristensen

Sebatian Dahm
Mads Søgaard
Frederik Dichow

 

[Urbanskog]

Fair points about Latvia and Denmark. I think bigger humiliation for China would be good. I won’t expand on the reasons, but I think they are self explanatory.

It however wouldn't make sense for the host nation to agree to something that would terribly hamper their relative strength.

 

[Kajoo72]

I've come to a Olympic hockey discussion to say that the Olympics don't mean s%$t without NHL players. Furthermore it also sucks for the two biggest hockey markets that there second best place to find player isn't available, making these games even more irrelevant.

2 out of 10 countries (Canada + US) = 66% of global registered players. The TV rating at previous NHL participation Olympics show how important the US and Canadian markets are, 42 million viewers for the Vancouver final.

As for the US, regardless of previous results, they are clearly #2 to Canada generally in Hockey based on their roster. I am saying this as a Canadian, they are clearly our biggest rival now.

Without the NHL the Olympics are an even more pitiful side show then the World Championships. They mean nothing.

1,6 billion viewers of iHF Worlds 2019 are truly a nothing. Sure
More than 1.6 billion viewers for World Ice Hockey Championships

 

[Czechboy]

1,6 billion viewers of iHF Worlds 2019 are truly a nothing. Sure
More than 1.6 billion viewers for World Ice Hockey Championships

What certain posters mean when they say no one cares is that they are NHL fans living in Canada and think the world ends at the oceans surrounding them.

Even worse when you consider that Canada is just chalk full of immigrants from Europe who love the tourney.

And, of course, there are lots of Canadians that love it too! And attend them and have a great time. Some awesome posters on here for instance.

Basically, every world Juniors this international board gets flooded with NHL fans (and I am a big oilers guy) that want to tell people they suck and their countries don't matter. Like clockwork.

It would've happened at best on best Olympics too. Now those same fans will log in daily to tell everyone the tourney is meaningless and they will not watch one second. They will spend hours letting us know this daily.lol

 

[PanniniClaus]

Well Denmark would be somewhat similar but lack the top-end talent of Ehlers and Bjorkstrand a lot combined a major blow in terms of goaltending with Freddie Andersen missing in the net.

So with that:
Mikkel Bødker - Peter Regin - Nicklas Jensen
Frederik Storm - Frans Nielsen - Nick Olesen
Patrick Russell - Julian Jakobsen - Nicolai Meyer
Patrick Bjorkstrand - Jesper Jensen - Mathias From
Morten Madsen, Morten Poulsen

Philip Larsen - Oliver Lauridsen
Markus Lauridsen - Jesper Aabo Jensen
Oliver Larsen - Nicholas B. Jensen
Emil Kristensen

Sebatian Dahm
Mads Søgaard
Frederik Dichow

Can't argue too much with this... No room for Patrick Russell?

How has Sorensen been playing in goal?

 

[Silky Johnson]

1,6 billion viewers of iHF Worlds 2019 are truly a nothing. Sure
More than 1.6 billion viewers for World Ice Hockey Championships

Get a better source. 1.6 Billion viewers would make it one of the most viewed events ever. Certainly the most viewed hockey event. See the below Wikipedia list of most viewed events ever.

List of most-watched television broadcasts - Wikipedia.

 

[Silky Johnson]

What certain posters mean when they say no one cares is that they are NHL fans living in Canada and think the world ends at the oceans surrounding them.

Even worse when you consider that Canada is just chalk full of immigrants from Europe who love the tourney.

And, of course, there are lots of Canadians that love it too! And attend them and have a great time. Some awesome posters on here for instance.

Basically, every world Juniors this international board gets flooded with NHL fans (and I am a big oilers guy) that want to tell people they suck and their countries don't matter. Like clockwork.

It would've happened at best on best Olympics too. Now those same fans will log in daily to tell everyone the tourney is meaningless and they will not watch one second. They will spend hours letting us know this daily.lol

I don't live in North America. I watch every international tournament fron the U18"s up because I love hockey. I pay attention to all the European leagues because I love hockey. But the truth is North America is the majority of the worlds hockey market in terms of fans, fan revenue and players. NA fans generally don't give a shit about supposed "world" tournaments that go out of their way to exclude the MAJORITY hockey market.

If I was living in Europe I would have just as much distain for the World Championships as my countries best players could not participate regularly.

Calling something the World Championships when it is played during the world most important leagues playoffs and excludes many of the best hockey players from EVERY country is down right stupid.

Its a shame that the NHL players are not going to the Olympics. I genuinely love best on best hockey. I do however understand the NHL and NHLPA's decision to protect the most valuable hockey property in the world, as that is their mandate.

Olympics without NHL players makes the World Championships look good. It is a meaningless tournament.

Its not about who wins either. Canada has won the most Olympic golds and World Championships. They are no more legit when we win them.

 

[Kajoo72]

Get a better source. 1.6 Billion viewers would make it one of the most viewed events ever. Certainly the most viewed hockey event. See the below Wikipedia list of most viewed events ever.

List of most-watched television broadcasts - Wikipedia.

1, 6b/64 games = 25m views per game. However hard I try I can’t simply imagine where on earth so many ppl watching it. Article says cumulative audience- no idea what it means. Counting every click & like from YouTube , Instagram and other social media platforms ? Here’s older thread IIHF WC Slovakia - TV Ratings 2019

 

[Frederik95]

Can't argue too much with this... No room for Patrick Russell?

How has Sorensen been playing in goal?

I believe i added Russell to the third line. He is very much a lock and would have been regardless of anything.

Sørensen has been great in net for Aalborg but also have had a lot of injuries this season so he has been out a few times for like 5 games or so. I think if Søgaard has to stay due to Ottawa wanting him in the system just in case, Sørensen goes as the number 3

 

[Husqvarna]

Sure. I am fine to stipulate that it means something to you and the actual players. I just have issue with anyone describing it as more than a 3rd tier hockey tournament without NHLers.

Sweden Post even made a stamp

of that Forsbergs Olympic-goal over Hirsch back in Norway Lillehammer Olympics 1994 ... but I must say that overall Finland had the best team around at that time 1994, believe me, just believe me.

A young Saku Koivu with his cohorts, prime-time Esa Keskinen and Raimo Helminen and the lot and they (Finland) only lost ONE bloody period in that tournament, against Canada, of course, and ended third; with a simple bronze medal - and yes I was there in freezing cold Norway to watch the Olympics live.

 

[Husqvarna]

Olympic gold?

Do we care - yes and of course we do, we bloody do ... filthy NHL incl. or not.

 

[Czechboy]

I don't live in North America. I watch every international tournament fron the U18"s up because I love hockey. I pay attention to all the European leagues because I love hockey. But the truth is North America is the majority of the worlds hockey market in terms of fans, fan revenue and players. NA fans generally don't give a shit about supposed "world" tournaments that go out of their way to exclude the MAJORITY hockey market.

If I was living in Europe I would have just as much distain for the World Championships as my countries best players could not participate regularly.

Calling something the World Championships when it is played during the world most important leagues playoffs and excludes many of the best hockey players from EVERY country is down right stupid.

Its a shame that the NHL players are not going to the Olympics. I genuinely love best on best hockey. I do however understand the NHL and NHLPA's decision to protect the most valuable hockey property in the world, as that is their mandate.

Olympics without NHL players makes the World Championships look good. It is a meaningless tournament.

Its not about who wins either. Canada has won the most Olympic golds and World Championships. They are no more legit when we win them.

I actually wasn't talking about you.lol But I understand why it looks that way. Apologies. We seem to really agree on some things and really disagree on others. All good. I've really enjoyed a lot of your posts during this insane World Juniors.

Till now, I wasn't sure which country you support since you are in Middle East. You should probably write a book since you've seen a LOT!

I'd say the Worlds are about as legit as that last World Cup. Neither proved much to me.lol

I love the World's and am well aware that they are not a legit refletion of who is the best. But if people want to put on international jerseys and play for their country.. I am in! Eg. some of the old (pre pandemic) junior tourneys on TSN would have 3 or 4 Team Canadas - so that wasn't legit either but I still love watching the Czechs play all the watered down ones.

FTR.. Hockey doesn't have legit best on best anywhere.. U18 is a stacked Team America while Canada can't send their best. Hlinka is a stacked team canada but US doesn't send their best. Juniors are missing good players every single time becasue they are in NHL already or not allowed to go (eg. Germany had their top 3 players missing, Canada has several in NHL, Raty couldn't go because of a pro leauge problem). It's been like that every year... eg. next year, the Slovaks might be missing a few guys becasue they are deep in AHL or even NHL. World's is missing most the top players and there hasn't been a legit best on best since 2014 and no sign of one in the future. It's a broken sport when it comes to best on best from U18 to Olympics.

 

[Silky Johnson]

I watched live Canada win Gold at both Vancouver & Sochi. Vancouver I was working at the Olympics in another capacity but through connections with a major sponsor I got to watch every TC game. In Sochi I was working again and saw the semis and gold medal game as well as TC's 6-0 win over Austria.

I could care less that it was the Olympics as they are a corrupt shit show. Working at several has shown me how the sausage is made and let me tell you it ruins your appetite.

They are my second & third greatest hockey memories because it was amazing to see my countries team win against the BEST in the world.

My greatest hockey memory was watching the Habs win the 1979 Stanley Cup final at the Forum with my Dad and Grand Father. I was 5 years old and remember it clearly. Its ironic because while its the thing that made me love hockey, I now hate the Habs!

 

[Silky Johnson]

I actually wasn't talking about you.lol But I understand why it looks that way. Apologies. We seem to really agree on some things and really disagree on others. All good. I've really enjoyed a lot of your posts during this insane World Juniors.

Till now, I wasn't sure which country you support since you are in Middle East. You should probably write a book since you've seen a LOT!

I'd say the Worlds are about as legit as that last World Cup. Neither proved much to me.lol

I love the World's and am well aware that they are not a legit refletion of who is the best. But if people want to put on international jerseys and play for their country.. I am in! Eg. some of the old (pre pandemic) junior tourneys on TSN would have 3 or 4 Team Canadas - so that wasn't legit either but I still love watching the Czechs play all the watered down ones.

FTR.. Hockey doesn't have legit best on best anywhere.. U18 is a stacked Team America while Canada can't send their best. Hlinka is a stacked team canada but US doesn't send their best. Juniors are missing good players every single time becasue they are in NHL already or not allowed to go (eg. Germany had their top 3 players missing, Canada has several in NHL, Raty couldn't go because of a pro leauge problem). It's been like that every year... eg. next year, the Slovaks might be missing a few guys becasue they are deep in AHL or even NHL. World's is missing most the top players and there hasn't been a legit best on best since 2014 and no sign of one in the future. It's a broken sport when it comes to best on best from U18 to Olympics.

I fully understand why you watch. So do I. I just really hate it when people talk these tournaments up as something they are not. Maybe I am overreacting due to my hatred of the IIHF.

People will say it is the NHL's fault that there is no true best on best now. I disagree as it is in no way their mandate to do so. The blame squarely falls on the IIHF. It is literally part of their reason for existing.

I hated the last World Cup for its gimics but the previous one and the Canada Cups were classic. Best on best Olympics are amazing as well.

FYI, I'm a dual Canadian/British citizen expat who has lived in the Canada, US and Italy before moving to Dubai a decade ago