Olympics: What does your nations roster look like if NHLers don't go?

[vorky]

no offense but player develpment is costly. How on earth would you protect your investment? To your logic the european clubs had to make the kids pay for the development which even less than now could afford

The problem of hockey is global, transfers do not exist and poor clubs/leagues do not have money for players´ development. I will give you an example from soccer. There is so-called a development fee for U23 players, when they transfer. Then, the clubs can agree on a transfer fee which depends on player´s quality, including a marketing potential. In hockey, when European players transfer to NHL, they get one-time payment - a development fee. But the European clubs have no right to demand more money from NHL if a player is such good. That is a problem.

 

[Silky Johnson]

no offense but player develpment is costly. How on earth would you protect your investment? To your logic the european clubs had to make the kids pay for the development which even less than now could afford

Seems to work fine in NA.

However, transfer fees could be a negotiating point for a properly constructed World Cup of Hockey in partnership between the NHL and Euro Leagues.

 

[tapi]

Nobody gives a sh!t about the games, it's a n00b tournament at this point.

 

[Heg82]

No idea, when there's comments like the one from Roger Rönnberg about doing everything in his power to stop Frölunda players from going to the Olympic Games because he can't see why SHL teams should let players participate when NHL teams don't.

It would not surprise me if a few more SHL Head Coaches share his view.

 

[Marioesque]

Nobody gives a sh!t about the games, it's a n00b tournament at this point.

Weren't you also elated that the NHL did not go? So you want it to be a noob tournament that nobody cares about.

 

[Czechboy]

No idea, when there's comments like the one from Roger Rönnberg about doing everything in his power to stop Frölunda players from going to the Olympic Games because he can't see why SHL teams should let players participate when NHL teams don't.

It would not surprise me if a few more SHL Head Coaches share his view.

Pardubice coach in Extrliga (Blumil and Musil) has said the same.

I am very excited for this tourney without NHLers and will follow closely
I would've preferred best on best by a country mile

However, I don't get why it's okay for Canada and US to send their best women but not their best men and I have no idea why Euro pros would give if NHL ones won't. I also can't think of a single Olympic sport who's athletes aren't going but the NHL ones.

 

[Elias40]

Seems to work fine in NA.

However, transfer fees could be a negotiating point for a properly constructed World Cup of Hockey in partnership between the NHL and Euro Leagues.

Currently, Swedish club gets 250 000 dolars for their player if they leave to play in the NHL. When NHL clubs works so well with money, they are significantly richer and the markets works for them, why not make a change in compensation? Now its 250 000, 300 000 in year, 350 000 in two years.. and they can agree with clubs in Europe to cap the amount. They get their players and then it's up to them how they work with the investment in the form of the player's profit. This will significantly helps clubs in Sweden, Finland or the Czech Republic. 250 000 is a ridiculous amount, admit it yourself. I would set the amount at 500 000 myself.

 

[Silky Johnson]

Currently, Swedish club gets 250 000 dolars for their player if they leave to play in the NHL. When NHL clubs works so well with money, they are significantly richer and the markets works for them, why not make a change in compensation? Now its 250 000, 300 000 in year, 350 000 in two years.. and they can agree with clubs in Europe to cap the amount. They get their players and then it's up to them how they work with the investment in the form of the player's profit. This will significantly helps clubs in Sweden, Finland or the Czech Republic. 250 000 is a ridiculous amount, admit it yourself. I would set the amount at 500 000 myself.

Its hard to set an amount. 500k for a player who is a question mark but would benefit from time in the AHL learning the NA game sounds like alot. Maybe a NHL/AHL transfer fee difference based on games played.

If I was the NHL I would be fine with negotiating something beneficial on transfer fees confitional on those leagues supporting an NHL/NHLPA led World Cup of Hockey that is properly constructed ie no gimmick teams, set intervals (2 years preferably), 10 nations with a possible play in.

 

[Hanji]

Sure there are answers, like who is the best. Who are the winners and losers. Every best on best tournament contributes to answering those questions.

In North America the Olympics had almost no prestige for hockey until the NHL joined. NA is the majority of hockey players, fans and revenue. Prestige came with the NHLers and is leaving with them.

Say what? This nation's most prestigious sporting moment was non-NHL Olympic hockey. A bunch of college kids in fact.

 

[Hanji]

Currently, Swedish club gets 250 000 dolars for their player if they leave to play in the NHL. When NHL clubs works so well with money, they are significantly richer and the markets works for them, why not make a change in compensation? Now its 250 000, 300 000 in year, 350 000 in two years.. and they can agree with clubs in Europe to cap the amount. They get their players and then it's up to them how they work with the investment in the form of the player's profit. This will significantly helps clubs in Sweden, Finland or the Czech Republic. 250 000 is a ridiculous amount, admit it yourself. I would set the amount at 500 000 myself.

The NHL doesn't care, because they don't need to care in the short term. It's a short sighted policy. They'll take talent at the least $$$ possible.

In many ways the NHL is like a logging company that does the minimum to replant the tress they cut down. Very little consideration of the overall health of the environment outside of their own back-yard.
But this is on par with any other corporation, really. Business is business. I think the KHL does the same to the SHL, Liiga, etc. despite complaining about the NHL doing it to them.

 

[Silky Johnson]

Say what? This nation's most prestigious sporting moment was non-NHL Olympic hockey. A bunch of college kids in fact.

Sure, but only because it was a "miracle" that a bunch of college kids beat the best Eastern Block players. In hockey circles the Olympics still had distain for how they were set up.

Nonetheless, I will ammend my previous statement to say Canada rather then North America based on the "Miracle on Ice" alone. I will however point out that this is a notable exception as opposed to the rule.

 

[Hanji]

Sure, but only because it was a "miracle" that a bunch of college kids beat the best Eastern Block players. In hockey circles the Olympics still had distain for how they were set up.

Nonetheless, I will ammend my previous statement to say Canada rather then North America based on the "Miracle on Ice" alone. I will however point out that this is a notable exception as opposed to the rule.

Nah, it was historical because of the Olympics. The prestige of the games set the stage for our greatest sporting moment.

Average Joe wouldnt have given 2 craps if that exact same scenario occured at the World Championships, or Canada Cup. This country doesn't care enough about our sport for said victory to be special in and of itself.

 

[Silky Johnson]

The NHL doesn't care, because they don't need to care in the short term. It's a short sighted policy. They'll take talent at the least $$$ possible.

In many ways the NHL is like a logging company that does the minimum to replant the tress they cut down. Very little consideration of the overall health of the environment outside of their own back-yard.
But this is on par with any other corporation, really. Business is business.

Agree that the NHL is short sighted on this. They would be well advised to take a better long term approach to hockey. I detailed my opinion about transfer fees and a proper World Cup of Hockey earlier. It could be something that could be both good for the "Hockey Environment" and profitable.

That being said, the IIHF is far more shortsighted and just plain stupid, especially considering their mandate to exist. Holding the WC's during the league playoffs of the largest (majority) hockey market, where all countries best players play is so unbelievably and disqualifyingly dumb.

 

[Silky Johnson]

Nah, it was historical because of the Olympics. The prestige of the games set the stage for our greatest sporting moment.

Average Joe wouldnt have given 2 craps if that exact same scenario occured at the World Championships, or Canada Cup. This country doesn't care enough about our sport for said victory to be special in and of itself.

The US has won lots of gold medals at the Olympics.

The prestige of the moment was the Cold War, the Olympics being so obviously set up in favour of the Eastern Block countries ie paid "amateur" athletes and these American College kids overcoming all of this to win.

The Cold War politics had the biggest impact on the story.

Had Olympic hockey been a true best on best tournament or set up in an equal way it would have never played out like this David V Goliath story. The fact that the Olympics were so flawed made this story compelling.

I'll give you the fact that the Olympic "prestige" brought the story out to the general public and beyond the hockey community.

 

[Silky Johnson]

Nah, it was historical because of the Olympics. The prestige of the games set the stage for our greatest sporting moment.

Average Joe wouldnt have given 2 craps if that exact same scenario occured at the World Championships, or Canada Cup. This country doesn't care enough about our sport for said victory to be special in and of itself.

More evidence that the prestige came from the situational outcome rather than the fact that it was Olympic hockey is that it was it was not even broadcast live in the USA.

Wanna bet if the 1980 Islander/Flyers Stanley Cup final was broadcasted live?

 

[Hanji]

That being said, the IIHF is far more shortsighted and just plain stupid, especially considering their mandate to exist. Holding the WC's during the league playoffs of the largest (majority) hockey market, where all countries best players play is so unbelievably and disqualifyingly dumb.

When else are they gonna hold it though? The NHL playoffs end in June for heavens sake. Camp start early September.
You're still gonna get tons of declines if it cuts too much into summer off-season vacation. An NHL-friendly World Championships means NHLers have to give up August. Good luck with that on a yearly basis.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Im not very optimistic about Swedens chances as you all know. However, Lars Johansson is not human. With that guy in the net anything can happen. He is giving me some hope.

 

[Hanji]

More evidence that the prestige came from the situational outcome rather than the fact that it was Olympic hockey is that it was it was not even broadcast live in the USA.

Wanna bet if the 1980 Islander/Flyers Stanley Cup final was broadcasted live?

Most people didn't know that at the time. Still don't.

They're not making a multi-million dollar movie of us beating the Soviets at the World Championships or Canada Cup with college kids even if it occured. Nobody cares. Hockey isn't that important. The World Cup and Canada Cup have no prestige for Average Joe.

The olympics though? Hell yea!

 

[Silky Johnson]

When else are they gonna hold it though? The NHL playoffs end in June for heavens sake. Camp start early September.
You're still gonna get tons of declines if it cuts too much into summer off-season vacation. An NHL-friendly World Championships means NHLers have to give up August. Good luck with that on a yearly basis.

I'm sure they could work something out to hold it the first two weeks of September before camp starts.

I am sure all the Euro players, who come from countries where the WC's are so important would never decline...

Better yet, hold it every second year.

Even better yet, call it the world cup, kick the IIHF out of it, hold it every 2 years (or 4) and market it correctly.

 

[Silky Johnson]

Most people didn't know that at the time. Still don't.

They're not making a multi-million dollar movie of us beating the Soviets at the World Championships or Canada Cup with college kids even if it occured. Nobody cares. Hockey isn't that important. The World Cup and Canada Cup have no prestige for Average Joe.

The olympics though? Hell yea!

Maybe not.

They aren't making the movie at all if it wasn't for beating the Soviets the way they did. That is what is compelling to the general public. Its not a Hockey Story its a Cold War/Underdog story.

Amongst American hockey fans I'm sure it's a different story. I would guess the 1984/88 Olympics were less important than the 1996 World Cup win, or their teams last playoff win.

FYI Mighty Ducks and Miracle have a very similar era adjusted box office. Miracle with better ticket revenue and Mighty Ducks with better video.

 

[Hanji]

Maybe not.

They aren't making the movie at all if it wasn't for beating the Soviets the way they did. That is what is compelling to the general public. Its not a Hockey Story its a Cold War/Underdog story.

Amongst American hockey fans I'm sure it's a different story. I would guess the 1984/88 Olympics were less important than the 1996 World Cup win, or their teams last playoff win.

FYI Mighty Ducks and Miracle have a very similar era adjusted box office. Miracle with better ticket revenue and Mighty Ducks with better video.

..and that's my entire point. It's not a hockey story. Nobody cares about hockey. It's a cold war/underdog story that couldve only occured at the Olympics. The innate prestige of the Games was the perfect platform for it to be our #1 sporting moment.
Nobody would've given 2 shits if that scenario played out at the world championships or canada cup, because those tournaments don't have the gravity of the Olympics.

That this miracle story occured at the olympics is what is special about it. In no parallel universe does it become our #1 sporting moment if it occurs anywhere else.
This isn't difficult.

 

[Hanji]

I'm sure they could work something out to hold it the first two weeks of September before camp starts.

I am sure all the Euro players, who come from countries where the WC's are so important would never decline...

Better yet, hold it every second year.

Even better yet, call it the world cup, kick the IIHF out of it, hold it every 2 years (or 4) and market it correctly.

Once every 4 years as a best on best in August/Sept would be optimal. Keep the remaining 3 years as is.
Every 2 years in Aug/Sept is too often. You'd likely see many declines. JMHO.

 

[Czechboy]

Currently, Swedish club gets 250 000 dolars for their player if they leave to play in the NHL. When NHL clubs works so well with money, they are significantly richer and the markets works for them, why not make a change in compensation? Now its 250 000, 300 000 in year, 350 000 in two years.. and they can agree with clubs in Europe to cap the amount. They get their players and then it's up to them how they work with the investment in the form of the player's profit. This will significantly helps clubs in Sweden, Finland or the Czech Republic. 250 000 is a ridiculous amount, admit it yourself. I would set the amount at 500 000 myself.

I'm curious about this..

When Czechs like Pastrnak and Vrana go to NHL.. I'm assuming SEL gets the money and not Extraliga? That seems fair but easy to see why Czechs would be mad since almost no Czechs go from Extraliga to NHL. We've had 2 in a decade... Hertl and Mlejnek (unprecedented miracle).

 

[Marioesque]

I'm curious about this..

When Czechs like Pastrnak and Vrana go to NHL.. I'm assuming SEL gets the money and not Extraliga? That seems fair but easy to see why Czechs would be mad since almost no Czechs go from Extraliga to NHL. We've had 2 in a decade... Hertl and Mlejnek (unprecedented miracle).

The team gets the money. I remember reading that the previous 3 seasons matter, and each one pays out a certain amount with more emphasis on the last year. So the team that had the player 3 years before NHL contract, get the money. If it's been the same team for those 3 years then they keep all of it, if not then it's divided by the teams player grew in the last 3 years. Something like that. Please correct if wrong.

 

[Shark Finn]

I don't really care. Glad the WJC wasn't cancelled.