What do you think of Yzerman these days?

[nbwingsfan]

I like the competitive identity in our prospects and young players. From Raymond and Seider, to Edvinsson to the next wave of MBN, Kasper and Danielson, he has built a tenacious and feisty group with (imo) underrated talent.

Time will tell how high this identity can fly.

He has…

How often has a “tenacious and feisty” team won the Cup?

A lot less than teams with star power.

I love Larkin, but if he’s our best player, I have serious doubts on us winning a Cup

 

[SCD]

He has…

How often has a “tenacious and feisty” team won the Cup?

A lot less than teams with star power.

I love Larkin, but if he’s our best player, I have serious doubts on us winning a Cup

It is possible, but would likely take two additional lines of similar caliber players at center.

 

[norrisnick]

He has…

How often has a “tenacious and feisty” team won the Cup?

A lot less than teams with star power.

I love Larkin, but if he’s our best player, I have serious doubts on us winning a Cup

Florida, Vegas, St. Louis just in the last 6 winners.

 

[The Zermanator]

He has…

How often has a “tenacious and feisty” team won the Cup?

A lot less than teams with star power.

I love Larkin, but if he’s our best player, I have serious doubts on us winning a Cup

There are 6 SC winners in the last 7 seasons (TB won twice). Fully half of those teams, Vegas (Eichel), St Louis (ROR), and Washington (Kuznetsov), had a 1C who was no better than Larkin. This 'Larkin isn't good enough to win a Cup' narrative needs to die, it's not rooted in reality.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Florida, Vegas, St. Louis just in the last 6 winners.

Who’s our Stone and Eichel? (And our free like $15M in cap space)

Who’s our Barkov and Tkachuck

It’s not comparable.

St Louis is the only comparable, and it took a random minimum league goalie playing out his his mind to do it

There are 6 SC winners in the last 7 seasons (TB won twice). Fully half of those teams, Vegas (Eichel), St Louis (ROR), and Washington (Kuznetsov), had a 1C who was no better than Larkin. This 'Larkin isn't good enough to win a Cup' narrative needs to die, it's not rooted in reality.

I never said he isn’t a good enough #1C.

He’s not a good enough best player.

 

[The Zermanator]

I never said he isn’t a good enough #1C.

He’s not a good enough best player.

I would name those same 3 teams. Who was clearly better than Larkin on any of them? Ovechkin in Washington, sure, but he's only better in an extremely one-dimensional way.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

Who’s our Stone and Eichel? (And our free like $15M in cap space)

Who’s our Barkov and Tkachuck

that's pretty funny when 3 out of 4 of those guys were acquired through trade

 

[norrisnick]

Who’s our Stone and Eichel? (And our free like $15M in cap space)

Who’s our Barkov and Tkachuck

It’s not comparable.

St Louis is the only comparable, and it took a random minimum league goalie playing out his his mind to do it

I never said he isn’t a good enough #1C.

He’s not a good enough best player.

Larkin and Raymond. Stone and Eichel aren't worldbeaters out of the reach of our players.

As for Barkov and Tkachuk... they aren't nearly as skilled as McDavid and Draisaitl so obviously they lost the Final, right? Or maybe tenacity had something to do with it?

Larkin won't be our best player for much longer. As soon as this season...

 

[raymond23]

that's pretty funny when 3 out of 4 of those guys were acquired through trade

That’s where I’m confused too. Is the argument that we didn’t tank hard enough?

 

[Pavels Dog]

Who’s our Stone and Eichel? (And our free like $15M in cap space)

Who’s our Barkov and Tkachuck

Tkachuk first 3 seasons: 224GP, 71G, 103A, 174pts
Raymond first 3 seasons: 238GP, 71G, 103A, 174pts

 

[Henkka]

Who’s our Stone and Eichel? (And our free like $15M in cap space)

Who’s our Barkov and Tkachuck

Just wait for the Yzerman tradefest.

We are gonna get Tkachuk - Eichel - Stone line from somewhere.

 

[Snuggs]

There are 6 SC winners in the last 7 seasons (TB won twice). Fully half of those teams, Vegas (Eichel), St Louis (ROR), and Washington (Kuznetsov), had a 1C who was no better than Larkin. This 'Larkin isn't good enough to win a Cup' narrative needs to die, it's not rooted in reality.

I think he's more right than wrong. No it's not impossible but go down the list right down to the 90's.

You're not gonna find many teams with centers WORST than Larkin, and Idk if Eichel is clearly WORST than Larkin like the other two players you mentioned.

Teams I had that were real standouts as Cup winners were the St. Louis Blues, and Anaheim Ducks in the 00's.

 

[Henkka]

There are 6 SC winners in the last 7 seasons (TB won twice). Fully half of those teams, Vegas (Eichel), St Louis (ROR), and Washington (Kuznetsov), had a 1C who was no better than Larkin. This 'Larkin isn't good enough to win a Cup' narrative needs to die, it's not rooted in reality.

Yeah. Only problem is the supporting cast.

Steve Yzerman wasn't enough to win a Cup... until the Russians did arrive.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Larkin and Raymond. Stone and Eichel aren't worldbeaters out of the reach of our players.

As for Barkov and Tkachuk... they aren't nearly as skilled as McDavid and Draisaitl so obviously they lost the Final, right? Or maybe tenacity had something to do with it?

Larkin won't be our best player for much longer. As soon as this season...

Yes they’re not as skilled as those two, but also MUCH better than Larkin and Raymond

Do you think we can win a cup with Larkin as our best player ?

Tkachuk first 3 seasons: 224GP, 71G, 103A, 174pts
Raymond first 3 seasons: 238GP, 71G, 103A, 174pts

Do you think Raymond becomes a consistent 100+ player?

I’d love it, but sure as hell don’t see it

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I don't recall even seeing our name linked with either one.

I had 1 goal for this summer, and that was improve the blue line. Can't say we did that.

I think it is a bridge too far to suggest that we did not inquire about players simply because we were not publicly linked to them. I also think it is ridiculous to suggest that every UFA on the market would consider Detroit at some price and the only reason they aren't here is because Yzerman didn't try hard enough.

 

[Winger98]

Yes they’re not as skilled as those two, but also MUCH better than Larkin and Raymond

Do you think we can win a cup with Larkin as our best player ?



Do you think Raymond becomes a consistent 100+ player?

I’d love it, but sure as hell don’t see it

I don't think there is a great gulf of impact between Eichel and Larkin. Raymond is a bit lower tier but he's also significantly younger, and I'm not sure why he couldn't become a 100 point guy. Tkachuk has done it all of twice in 8 seasons, and Stone has never done it (or been able to stay relatively healthy).

 

[SirloinUB]

He has…

How often has a “tenacious and feisty” team won the Cup?

A lot less than teams with star power.

I love Larkin, but if he’s our best player, I have serious doubts on us winning a Cup

I don't think you can win the cup without tenacity.

I also think that group is more skilled than it gets credit for. Let these guys develop. They're not even in the primes of their career neverminded the early parts of their careers.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Who’s our Stone and Eichel? (And our free like $15M in cap space)

Who’s our Barkov and Tkachuck

It’s not comparable.

St Louis is the only comparable, and it took a random minimum league goalie playing out his his mind to do it


I never said he isn’t a good enough #1C.

He’s not a good enough best player.

Larkin is as good as Eichel.

Also, let's worry about building a team that improves year after year. I know the end goal is the cup but let's get to the playoffs first.

 

[Henkka]

Do you think Raymond becomes a consistent 100+ player?

I’d love it, but sure as hell don’t see it

Yeah, you guys don't believe anyhow that young players can develop, but are sure that old players will regress.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I don't think you can win the cup without tenacity.

I also think that group is more skilled than it gets credit for. Let these guys develop. They're not even in the primes of their career neverminded the early parts of their careers.

This is the binary world we live in though. You are either hard working or you are "skilled." There is nothing in between in the eyes of most around here.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I don't think there is a great gulf of impact between Eichel and Larkin. Raymond is a bit lower tier but he's also significantly younger, and I'm not sure why he couldn't become a 100 point guy. Tkachuk has done it all of twice in 8 seasons, and Stone has never done it (or been able to stay relatively healthy).

Tkachuck has had two more than anyone on the Wings have had in how long?

Him and Barkov and much better players than anyone on the Wings so they really don’t work as a comparable

 

[SirloinUB]

Tkachuck has had two more than anyone on the Wings have had in how long?

Him and Barkov and much better players than anyone on the Wings so they really don’t work as a comparable

Tkachuk had 5 straight seasons before he hit 100 points. Their careers have been pretty much identical up until this point.

Granted going from the 70-80 point range to 100 point range is a big step but it seems crazy to frame it as some completely implausible development path.

Is it likely? i dont know but it seems crazy to put such a firm ceiling on one player when they have such had similar career arches and pedigree.

 

[raymond23]

Do you think Raymond becomes a consistent 100+ player?

I’d love it, but sure as hell don’t see it

Guy just had one of the best u22 seasons in the history of Swedish hockey and you sure as hell don't see it... okay

I can't wait for people to wake up and see what we have with this kid

 

[Snuggs]

Guy just had one of the best u22 seasons in the history of Swedish hockey and you sure as hell don't see it... okay

I can't wait for people to wake up and see what we have with this kid

Well I mean... there were only 9 players in the entire league last year with 100 plus points.

There's only been a handful of Redwings in the last 25-30 years with 90 plus points in a season. Idk if it's right to say it's "impossible" for Raymond to get there but odds suggest it's a steep climb.

Not sure anyone that questions 100 points plus is saying Raymonds a bad player. Just idk if he's with names like Pastrnak/Panarin/Rantanen etc. some of the best non-centers in the league... idk Seems like a guy that'll get somewhere between 30-40 goals consistently and have a few breakthrough years and TO ME that's really good still.

 

[heyfolks]

Good defines him. He was handed an absolute barn fire. The prospect pool was terrible, the roster was terrible, the salary to cap and performance ratio was terrible terrible terrible. The scouting was terrible.... Not a single aspect of the organization, other than the fan base, was TERRIBLE.


As he looked to clean up all the above, he took chances, that ended up being mistakes. My view in some of the major areas:

Scouting/draft - An absolute crap show. Some of this is not draft position. Yzerman was handed a group of 1st round flops. That has been cleaned up from Yzerman's first draft to today. His first round picks have been solid. His moves for additional picks has been solid. Really the only glaring reaches/mistakes may be Brady Cleveland (even though I am the Prez, and only member, of his fan club). Some may say you SHOULD hit with top 20 picks. The counter that is Zadina, Rasmussen, Veleno, Cholowski, Svechnikov. ALL top 20. Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Kasper, Danielson, Cossa ASP, MBN. This is from the outhouse to the penthouse. Will he strike magic with late round gems, ala Tampa? That is still to be seen.

Coaching - A lay-up here. Dumping Blashill put an extra 5,000 people back in the seats. I can't say Lalonde is the best out there, but he has improved the team each year and the base likes him. A marked improvement.

Roster management UFAs - This is where the rub exists. Some say a few bad and a few horrific contracts were signed. They are both right. I don't see any taking up the banner of support fo Chiarot, Holl or Copp. I am not going to pound this one into the ice. I will say only that the longer term deals are ones I do not support. Far too many up and comers to have dead money with vets that won't be here for the run(s). I am NOT going to argue on the development path. The League is getting younger. Some players have shown up and shown out young (Mo and Lucas). I would throw Simon in there but most now say he isn't young and should have been up last year. I will disagree. He was nowhere near the level we saw at the end of last season the season before. That time in GR providing amazing growth.


I would say this franchise had ony one direction to go but I was alive for the dead wing era and have seen other teams in the absolute tank, get even worse.


GOOD and trending in the right direction.