SensHulk
Registered User
Wow what is this ‘leprechaun’ bull shit ppl are saying about karlsson?? We get stutzle and all of a sudden it’s a license to slander karlsson? Pretty pathetic
News Article: What did the Senators get out of trading EK65
- Thread starter AchtzehnBaby
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Dan Patrick
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- Mar 11, 2020
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I also want to go on the record as saying Karlsson is my second favourite Senator ever.
I was extremely bothered by the events of that entire season and it definitely is a huge contributor to most peoples (including my own) perception of poor team management from PD and Melnyk.
I also think it's perfectly reasonable to look back on the trade now and say that the outcome was good for the sens while the process was a shit show.
The entire situation would have been drastically improved if we had known way less about the situations surrounding EK leaving. Ultimately, the assets he was worth as a player were of a greater value to the team than any contributions he could have made to the team over the course of the rebuild.
It is actually only a bonus that with hindsight we can now see the assets he got back for the Sens ended up being significantly better than the production he would have given to the team.
I was extremely bothered by the events of that entire season and it definitely is a huge contributor to most peoples (including my own) perception of poor team management from PD and Melnyk.
I also think it's perfectly reasonable to look back on the trade now and say that the outcome was good for the sens while the process was a shit show.
The entire situation would have been drastically improved if we had known way less about the situations surrounding EK leaving. Ultimately, the assets he was worth as a player were of a greater value to the team than any contributions he could have made to the team over the course of the rebuild.
It is actually only a bonus that with hindsight we can now see the assets he got back for the Sens ended up being significantly better than the production he would have given to the team.
Back in Black
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CorrectOpinion
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- Mar 8, 2016
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I have a funny feeling Erik Karlsson was bad for the locker room. I don't know it but I feel it. I also got incredible joy from watching him play all those years. The way things are finally starting to seem for the Sens makes me feel like I can finally breathe a sigh of relief. Peace EK65.
AchtzehnBaby
Global Matador
I sometimes wonder if it may have been a similar story line to Subban in Montreal.
playasRus
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- Mar 21, 2009
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Karlsson didn't push for the Duchene trade, the Zibanejad trade, the Stone trade, the Turris trade, inability/reluctance to keep Methot, Ryan's substance abuse, Cowen's injuries and busting, Michalek regressing.
A lot of really weird deflection here and blame. Sure you can say after all his injuries he isn't worth 11million per year. But he was a great defensemen that made this team enjoyable to follow for the better part of a decade, even when we weren't a playoff team half that time. Locker room stuff is hearsay and as with Subban, very much conjecture or totally made up on "gut feeling". Don't hear about either of them being locker room problems on their teams. And if they were such problems, why were they part of the leadership group of the team for basically their entire tenure (10 years) minus rookie/sophomore years and considered Captain material/named Captain.
A lot of really weird deflection here and blame. Sure you can say after all his injuries he isn't worth 11million per year. But he was a great defensemen that made this team enjoyable to follow for the better part of a decade, even when we weren't a playoff team half that time. Locker room stuff is hearsay and as with Subban, very much conjecture or totally made up on "gut feeling". Don't hear about either of them being locker room problems on their teams. And if they were such problems, why were they part of the leadership group of the team for basically their entire tenure (10 years) minus rookie/sophomore years and considered Captain material/named Captain.
CorrectOpinion
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To be fair, we know to an extent he was part of a divide in the locker room. It sounds like there was the EK side and the Matt Hoffman side. The team no longer liked each other after the 2016/2017 season. I think that's part of why they sucked. So who knows maybe Karlsson was purely a victim of Hoffman but I figure it was the other way around but THAT IS AN ASSUMPTION. I do know Karlsson is prone to call out the play of other players and kind of had a diva vibe in general though.
lol Karlsson wanted to stay but management handled it so poorly
The most hilarious 'rumour' that only started once Karlsson was kicked out the door was that he ran practices or chose when the team practiced or something. IF thats true that says more about the poor coaching and management
The most hilarious 'rumour' that only started once Karlsson was kicked out the door was that he ran practices or chose when the team practiced or something. IF thats true that says more about the poor coaching and management
Process does matter though. Why not trade Karlsson earlier and instead 'offer' a contract once the backalsh hit? Why hang on to Stone then trade him when he had the least amount of value?
We definitely need to be better than that.
We traded away Stone, Karlsson, Hoffman, Duchene and Byram and have Stuztle, Bransstrom and Norris to show for them.
We are in the easy part of the rebuild. The hard part is actually producing a stanley cup and keeping talent
CorrectOpinion
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I mean there is a difference between shitting on Cody Ceci and karlsson.
Karlsson carried this franchise for YEARS.
I guess what I don't understand is how some are ready to readily shit on EK65. I don't know what I don't, like how he was in his personal time or in the locker room, but at his time in Ottawa he has shown to be best player to have worn the Sens jersey (Alfie is still the greatest Senator). I appreciate the wonderful memories, now I am looking forward to today and tomorrow with the influx of quality young players in the pipeline.
pretty sad really
but nothing new in sens land. If we didnt luck our way into Timmy ppl wouldnt be talking this way
CorrectOpinion
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One way or another we had peak Erik Karlsson and that was pretty unreal but it's over now and we got away lucky.
YouGotAStuGoing
Registered User
Context matters. This was not a situation that had to be as messy as it did. Your analogy would be a great analogy if Karlsson had demanded a trade, bad-mouthed the organization and burned it all to the ground. He didn't. We were able to see the whole process unfold in front of our eyes. There was no finesse to this landing — just a good result in hindsight with plenty of collateral damage to the off-ice product.
he could easily bounce back with a year off to rehab and get better. You are right maybe not peak but if he goes back to being a 70 point defensemen
Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
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Tierney too... Poor tierney...
Also, Balcers, merilienen from Demelo, probably something else...
Anyways, with the benefit of hindsight, you'd want to trade them all off earlier (or not acquire them in Duchenes case). Things were clearly not planned to go the way they did, they thought they had more in them but they didn't.
That said, the Karlsson trade worked out as well as can be hoped, kind of makes up for the disaster that was acquiring Duchene and then some if Norris pans out.
I think you are completely ignoring how all this went down.
1. Traded for Duchene (giving up a lottery pick)
2. Two months later Pierre and Melnyk have a meeting discussing rebuilding and moving Karlsson
3. Few months later huge fan backlash and we have the 'town halls'
4. Management says they will now 'offer' a fair contract to Karlsson
5. Karlsson gets traded
6. Management then says that they are close on a Stone deal but need more time so he signs for 1 year walking him to free agency
7. Trade Duchene
8. Trade Stone
I have zero issue trading everybody when they turn 28-30. And then rebuilding again
Oriole
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- Dec 28, 2018
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We agree here. I would much rather have two 6 million a year players than one 11 and one 1 million a year players.
The Tampa Rays model will keep a budget team like the Sens stocked in young talent with lots of prospects all the time. They just traded the Cy Young award winner from 2018. Sure, some fans will have to get used to the Stone's, Karlsson's and Stuetzle's moving on to greener pastures but the haul will ensure a solid 4 lines all the time. When the time is right you have the assets to land the big fish to make a run.
Oriole
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- Dec 28, 2018
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Exactly. Context matters. I really hope management has learned to not think so much about what the fans think and just get on with doing what's best for the franchise. They are so worried about hurting this fanbases feelings that they feel they need to sit on the fence. Tell people what they want to hear while trying to make moves that ensure the team stays viable.
Just look how people react to trading a 3rd round pick. Their heads explode. Now try to tell people you're going to trade Erik Karlsson. Nobody should be surprised that they tried to hide things until the very last minute.
again the theory is okay but thats not what the Sens were trying to do. If they did we would have Byram and a more clear plan back then. They stumbled their way through while losing value on their assets
Agent Zuuuub
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- Jan 2, 2015
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That's not a NHL hockey team you're describing. That's a developmental team for the rest of the NHL.
Strange thread.
I’ll say this: there is absolutely no good clean way to trade away your franchise player and captain. It will always be messy, and everyone will always speak in half truths and lean towards favourable sound bites in the media. The term ‘taken with a grain of salt’ applies to both sides.
It has always been that way, and always will be. Both parties have to focus on their own best interests, at a time when those interests are diverging. EK needs to leave looking good to the outgoing fans, as well as the incoming fans and team. The team has to look like they are catering somewhat to fans emotions, and being kind to the beloved player, while ultimately doing what is best for the team and the future regardless.
It could have gone better, it could have gone worse, but it’s over now. The team got a solid return that has gotten better this year, and has at least one more card to drop, while EK got the payday, the nice living location for the fam, and kept the reverence from his beloved fan base in Ottawa.
It’s not a terrible story, and it gets better each year as the emotions dull and we can start feeling good about what each side got out of the deal (including us the fans).
I don’t imagine that either the team or EK regret the deal, we should move on as well.
I’ll say this: there is absolutely no good clean way to trade away your franchise player and captain. It will always be messy, and everyone will always speak in half truths and lean towards favourable sound bites in the media. The term ‘taken with a grain of salt’ applies to both sides.
It has always been that way, and always will be. Both parties have to focus on their own best interests, at a time when those interests are diverging. EK needs to leave looking good to the outgoing fans, as well as the incoming fans and team. The team has to look like they are catering somewhat to fans emotions, and being kind to the beloved player, while ultimately doing what is best for the team and the future regardless.
It could have gone better, it could have gone worse, but it’s over now. The team got a solid return that has gotten better this year, and has at least one more card to drop, while EK got the payday, the nice living location for the fam, and kept the reverence from his beloved fan base in Ottawa.
It’s not a terrible story, and it gets better each year as the emotions dull and we can start feeling good about what each side got out of the deal (including us the fans).
I don’t imagine that either the team or EK regret the deal, we should move on as well.
Dan Patrick
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- Mar 11, 2020
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Ultimately, in regards to the Karlsson trade, I think we can judge management to have done the right thing but just about as poorly as possible. Trading Karlsson was the right move (trading for Duchene was not), the way they communicated the rebuild too fans was god awful (still is *cough* FYOUS *cough*), we received fair compensation for a player of Karlsson's value.
I think it's the fact that the Karlsson trade doesn't happen in a vacuum and is preceded by the Duchene trade and loss of our 1st round pick in that following year that makes people much more critical of the return we got. It takes a lot more to tip the scales in our favour when we essentially traded all hope for our next season along with Karlsson.
I think it's the fact that the Karlsson trade doesn't happen in a vacuum and is preceded by the Duchene trade and loss of our 1st round pick in that following year that makes people much more critical of the return we got. It takes a lot more to tip the scales in our favour when we essentially traded all hope for our next season along with Karlsson.
