News Article: What did the Senators get out of trading EK65

[Sweatred]

Tampa Bay is great if you like minor league baseball, methamphetamines, opiates and swamp ass. Gimme a real town like Chicago or Philly amy day of the week over Florida.

It doesn’t matter what you like. Trying to argue Ottaws is some type of preferred (or all cities are equal) destination for professional athletes is a moronic waste of time.

 

[Ice-Tray]

“We were never being boring, we were never being bored”

Pet Shop Boys

 

[Korpse]

only a sample of articles..This does not include the radio and TV stuff. read the last line or two of the Leafs article

Yeah Trisitan Jarry is a pretty damn goaltender himself and the salary cap does exist. All this talk neglects how Murray preformed after his last concussion, he performed above league average. This season was ugly for him and everyone is trying understand why, it's lazy speculation.

I don't even know what to make of that Leclaire story. MacLean was fired at the end of the 2007 season, Lecaire's first season as a starter was the next season and traded two seasons after MacLean was fired. On top of that I don't even know that Leclaire suffered any concussions prior to coming to Ottawa. Leclaire suffered many injuries throughout his career but it was ultimately hip injuries that lead him out of the league.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

It doesn’t matter what you like. Trying to argue Ottaws is some type of preferred (or all cities are equal) destination for professional athletes is a moronic waste of time.

It's always gonna come down to 2 factors as the most important for athletes: the opportunity to win and money. Everything after is just a bonus. Only the true premier guys get to pick and choose based on location and what kind of city they like.

Ottawa is by no means a top destination for athletes but the city is never going to be a deterrent for a guy to come here.

Professional athletes happily play in places like Cleveland, Columbus, Buffalo, Winnipeg, Edmonton, St. Louis, Memphis and Jacksonville. Ottawa's not top 10 but it's probably top 20 in NA for pro sports as great places to live. The only reason people shit on Ottawa is because we're naturally compared to our provincial cousins in Toronto, which is a world class city.

 

[Sweatred]

It's always gonna come down to 2 factors as the most important for athletes: the opportunity to win and money. Everything after is just a bonus. Only the true premier guys get to pick and choose based on location and what kind of city they like.

Ottawa is by no means a top destination for athletes but the city is never going to be a deterrent for a guy to come here.

Professional athletes happily play in places like Cleveland, Columbus, Buffalo, Winnipeg, Edmonton, St. Louis, Memphis and Jacksonville. Ottawa's not top 10 but it's probably top 20 in NA for pro sports as great places to live. The only reason people shit on Ottawa is because we're naturally compared to our provincial cousins in Toronto, which is a world class city.

Sorry - it isn’t that simple. There are many more reasons involved for players beyond Money and Winning.

If Ottawa is a top 10% team and offers player “x” $10 million. Chicago comes in as a top 20% team and offers player “x” $9.8 million. Where do you think they go? Let’s assume Chicago doesn’t just match the Ottawa offer which happens all the time anyway. If they choose Chicago they just disproved your theory that only winning and money decide these things. I bet the player choose Chicago 8/10 times or more in this instance.

Secondly, winning is fun. Hainsey came to Ottawa knowing he wasn’t going to win. We over paid for that. He trusted the coach and took the cash. If you ask most players if they would prefer $1 million on their salary or win 10 more games, most take the cash. Every time a player signs a 8 year deal they know they are probably going through a full competitive cycle. They will win for a few years and probably lose for a full years.

I think a lot of players look to sign those 8 year retirement contracts with teams that are likely to buy out their last few years vs force getting scratched. Who doesn’t like getting free money.

 

[Back in Black]

What did the Senators get out of trading Erik Karlsson?

We got out of a (minus) -24 player, with a BIG paycheck coming his way!

 

[umma gumma]

It doesn’t matter what you like. Trying to argue Ottaws is some type of preferred (or all cities are equal) destination for professional athletes is a moronic waste of time.

You are the only one making any such claims. No one ever said that.

 

[Sweatred]

You are the only one making any such claims. No one ever said that.

When you argue against the general notion that players prefer other cities over Ottawa, you claiming that Ottawa is a destination players prefer.... or they are all viewed equally.

 

[umma gumma]

When you argue against the general notion that players prefer other cities over Ottawa, you claiming that Ottawa is a destination players prefer.... or they are all viewed equally.

What??

You: players won't sign here because of weather.
Others: some, but not all players care about the weather.
You: Fine, you go on believing this place is a hot spot for FAs.
????

 

[Sweatred]

What??

You: players won't sign here because of weather.
Others: some, but not all players care about the weather.
You: Fine, you go on believing this place is a hot spot for FAs.
????

Geez .... Weather, taxes, bars, restaurants, clubs, shopping, models, dining, luxuries, entertainment, housing ... did you read one post or only remember one post ? Keep up or keep quite.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Okay. Thank you all for the weather reports.

This thread is about what we got back from the EK65 trade. Let's move on... or we start seeing some thread bans.

 

[Dingle]

Yeah Trisitan Jarry is a pretty damn goaltender himself and the salary cap does exist. All this talk neglects how Murray preformed after his last concussion, he performed above league average. This season was ugly for him and everyone is trying understand why, it's lazy speculation.

I don't even know what to make of that Leclaire story. MacLean was fired at the end of the 2007 season, Lecaire's first season as a starter was the next season and traded two seasons after MacLean was fired. On top of that I don't even know that Leclaire suffered any concussions prior to coming to Ottawa. Leclaire suffered many injuries throughout his career but it was ultimately hip injuries that lead him out of the league.

not concussions, knee / lower body injury. possibly hip as you stated. Leclair was there from 02-09 (accounting for the minors). Again, at the age of 27 he is traded for Antoine Vermette.. A hell of a deal for Columbus. Played poorly for a season and a half and was out of the league.

eerie similarities, with the exception of: Pittsburgh's GM did not sell damaged goods at a high price. He sold Murray off for cheap.. Scott Howson who fleeced Ottawa, never worked in the league as anything more than a scout. Rutherford on the other hand will work forever, because he is trusted.

 

[Sweatred]

Anybody want to flip Stutzle and Norris back for 6 more years of $11.5 of EK?

Thumbs up PD.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Anybody want to flip Stutzle and Norris back for 6 more years of $11.5 of EK?

Thumbs up PD.

It's possible for the result to be good and the process to be bad. They're not mutually exclusive.

 

[Sweatred]

It's possible for the result to be good and the process to be bad. They're not mutually exclusive.

Really ? Why ? Because they didn’t share their plan with you ? Keep in mind 95%+ of 4000 posts here hated the trade.... they were all wrong.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Really ? Why ? Because they didn’t share their plan with you ? Keep in mind 95%+ of 4000 posts here hated the trade.... they were all wrong.

Nope. Because it was poorly telegraphed, his value was tanked in the media because it became apparent that we had to trade him, and because you're assigning to genius what I assign to avarice. We clearly disagree here and I'm not upset with how the trade turned out. But I still hate the trade because it didn't have to happen the way it did, and the damage it did to the fanbase's trust was significantly more than it needed to be.

 

[Sweatred]

Nope. Because it was poorly telegraphed, his value was tanked in the media because it became apparent that we had to trade him, and because you're assigning to genius what I assign to avarice. We clearly disagree here and I'm not upset with how the trade turned out. But I still hate the trade because it didn't have to happen the way it did, and the damage it did to the fanbase's trust was significantly more than it needed to be.

pffft - PD made an excellent trade. You are a fool who didn’t know the cost and value of pieces coming in if you think otherwise. EK’s a boat anchor who isn’t worth Demelo alone based on positive value evaluation at $11.5 x 8 years. It gets 100x worse when you consider the next Sens comp window.

 

[TheDebater]

It is ok to still not like the Karlsson trade, as long as you are also someone who does not claim that Sakic is a genius for making the Duchene trade.

I recall many people at the time of the Duchene trade saying it was a good trade (not knowing the 1st round pick would be top 5), and then flipped once the Senators were looking like a lottery team.

Same with the Karlsson trade, some will claim that it was always a bad trade, even in hindsight, and give no Dorion no credit at all because "he never knew the 1st round pick would be top 3". But did Sakic know? Same situation.

With a little bit of luck, that Colorado pick would have been maybe 12-15 instead of 4th.

 

[TheDebater]

On that note, how crazy is it that we were supposed to originally get the 2019 San Jose 1st rounder but it was lottery protected and was already traded to Buffalo, which basically meant that because it was lottery protected, if the Sharks had missed the playoffs, they get to "keep" that pick but since it had been traded to us "unconditionally" in the Karlsson trade, we would have recieved it.

Had the Sharks missed the playoffs in 2019 we would have had that pick instead, and who knows where it would have landed but we were not getting a player like Stuetzle in 2019, that is for sure.

Crazy how things work out.

 

[bicboi64]

It is ok to still not like the Karlsson trade, as long as you are also someone who does not claim that Sakic is a genius for making the Duchene trade.

Pretty much this. I'm happy the results are panning out for us but I still dislike the trade because to me its a symptom of a larger problem. A larger problem that feels like we've been dealing with over and over again with our star players. I'm hoping the pieces we got help us become contenders and that Karlsson has success as well.

 

[SensFactor]

Best move we made. EK was never the same after those foot injuries and I don't see him getting any better. Awful, unmovable contract.

 

[Sweatred]

Pretty much this. I'm happy the results are panning out for us but I still dislike the trade because to me its a symptom of a larger problem. A larger problem that feels like we've been dealing with over and over again with our star players. I'm hoping the pieces we got help us become contenders and that Karlsson has success as well.

And that’s the problem ... Ottawa doesn’t have a problem keeping its star players. The fans think they do. Moving them is the best thing for the organization to avoid boat anchor contracts.

To be a “fair value” contract EK would have put up around 15 GAR each year or around 120 GAR over the life of the contract. That simply is not going to happen. He was 3Rd in dman in 2019 and can’t even maintain that pace.

 

[c_mak]

Before he first round pick Ottaa got form San Jose became Stuzle I had a conversation with a friend, Leaf fan, who said, you know what they got back for Karlson may not be all that bad. His belief was Karlson was never the same after the Matt Cooke injury.
I have another friend who worked for the Senators and when I asked him what was going on with trading Karlson - his answer was Karlson is not a guy to lead a team.
All this in Ad hoc monday morning quarterback speculation, however it is possible that Dorion is not a stupid as perceived and that the organization knew they weren't going to pay Karlson for reasons that are related to money but not in the penny pinching ways we think of them. As well it is possible that Doron got lucky, theat Melnyk forced his hand, and/or that the Hoffman thing drove a deeper wedge than we will ever know.
What the Senators are left with is strange, to me. Usually these parts for a star trades do not work out. This trade left Ottawa with some very good pieces, not Forsberg for Lindros good, but if Stuzle and Norris pan out in that conversation.
I think of it this way. The Karlson trade ends up being as good for Ottawa as the Duchene trade was bad for Ottawa.
I really hope the guys who does the "trade tree" on you tube picks this one up soon

 

[c_mak]

Nope. Because it was poorly telegraphed, his value was tanked in the media because it became apparent that we had to trade him, and because you're assigning to genius what I assign to avarice. We clearly disagree here and I'm not upset with how the trade turned out. But I still hate the trade because it didn't have to happen the way it did, and the damage it did to the fanbase's trust was significantly more than it needed to be.

Avarice wow great word

 

[DJB]

All I know is I can't wait to go to a Sens and Sharks game in two years. I'll be shouting and clapping;

" Thank you Karlsson! Clap! Clap! .....Clap! Clap! Clap!

" Thank you Karlsson! Clap! Clap! .....Clap! Clap! Clap!

Just like Boston did for Kessel.