What’s going on with Zegras?

[PainForShane]

That or a coaching change

But seems like PV has no interest in switching coach

Hey Zegs, I've seen you before, you seem like a good poster. In the past you and I have had discussions that were actual discussions, which is unfortunately too rare in these boards.

As a Ducks fan, what would you say the main problem(s) is or are with the Ducks this year in general? The hf narrative seems to be something around coaching, when I look at that roster I feel like it might be one of the best young rosters in the entire league just based on quality of prospects. Easy to fully blame the coach but I'm wondering how much of it is young players just learning the league, which is perfectly normal for a young team. I honestly don't know.

And no, I haven't been watching Ducks games other than an odd highlight here or there (and am not going to pretend that I have been). Thanks in advance.

P.S. also this thread just got merged, I find that low key hilarious given the prior convo

 

[Reality Czech]

ever since cronin took over, zegras has had the soul sucked out of him. the creativity and excitement in his play is gone

So in other words, Zegras just wants to make highlight reel plays instead of learning how to be a better all around hockey player?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Hey Zegs, I've seen you before, you seem like a good poster. In the past you and I have had discussions that were actual discussions, which is unfortunately too rare in these boards.

As a Ducks fan, what would you say the main problem(s) is or are with the Ducks this year in general? The hf narrative seems to be something around coaching, when I look at that roster I feel like it might be one of the best young rosters in the entire league just based on quality of prospects. Easy to fully blame the coach but I'm wondering how much of it is young players just learning the league, which is perfectly normal for a young team. I honestly don't know.

And no, I haven't been watching the games other than an odd highlight here or there (and am not going to pretend that I have been). Thanks in advance.

P.S. also this thread just got merged, I find that low key hilarious given the prior convo

I think the system isn’t great, specially with the player types/ages we have.

Cronin seems lost in post game interviews, and the team itself looks lost on what they are supposed to do, and where they are supposed to be.

Our vets have been very bad (killorn, Vatrano, gudas, fowler, strome) which puts a lot of pressure on the young guys on the roster. Guys like zegras and gauthier have looked good but they just ain’t getting the bounces you get when you’re confident.

Chemistry seems to be off, simple things like passing out of the dzone or on power play seem chaotic. I think a lot of players are playing low confident hockey…. Zegras and gauthier are the best examples of that.

Gauthier is a guy that should have no problem scoring…. Great shooter and not afraid to shoot…. But he can’t hit the net, and when he does it’s generally a post.

Zegras is at his best when he’s attack people 1 on 1, and creating passing lanes to use his vision to create offense…. And you just don’t see that as much this year. It’s great that he’s playing a more complete game…. But you still need to let him do what makes him great.

I personally think we need a coaching change badly…. But it seems like PV is going to make a roster shake up before a coaching change. Which scares me because I don’t see a player change that is going to salvage this season…. Outside of getting rid of older players not performing.

Trade Vatrano, call up colangelo.
Trade fowler, call up lunea.

But then you’re still stuck with a very very young roster lacking confidence, with a coach that is running out of run way.

 

[Reality Czech]

Yeah because Anaheim is such a powerhouse, it's just a mystery why he can't perform well there.

The best players are supposed to help their team improve. Is he still considered one of the Ducks' best players?

 

[GrumpyKoala]

He attempted the Michigan in his first NHL game if I remember correctly. He definitely tried it before he ever scored a goal.

It's well establish that the curse is seal only once a goal is actually scored.

 

[dracom]

So in other words, Zegras just wants to make highlight reel plays instead of learning how to be a better all around hockey player?

Literally the opposite. His learning to be a more complete player has affected his offensive ability and Cronin actively discourages offensive creativity on the team.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

The best players are supposed to help their team improve. Is he still considered one of the Ducks' best players?

you won’t find many duck fans trashing his play

Obviously we’d like to see it translate to the score sheet more, but that’s the whole team in general.


He’s actually been our best player since going back to center…. Points will come he’s just got to get his confidence/swagger back

So in other words, Zegras just wants to make highlight reel plays instead of learning how to be a better all around hockey player?

he’s making the changes in his game prople
Criticized when he was scoring.

When he’s scoring “oh he doesn’t play defense”
When he improves that part of his game “oh he’s washed he doesn’t score enough”

It’s a transitional period, eventually both sides are going to meet up. People need to be patient…. Everyone is quick to want to hate on him.

At the end of the day, there are a lot of fans here and on twitter rooting for a 23 year old to fail, rather than watching his transition into a complete player. Which was what they complained he wasn’t at the start of his career.

 

[LuGBuG]

So in other words, Zegras just wants to make highlight reel plays instead of learning how to be a better all around hockey player?

I can’t imagine arguing in a thread that you have no idea what you’re talking about hahahaha. It’s actually an incredible way to use your free time. Embarrassing.

 

[PainForShane]

I think the system isn’t great, specially with the player types/ages we have.

Cronin seems lost in post game interviews, and the team itself looks lost on what they are supposed to do, and where they are supposed to be.

Our vets have been very bad (killorn, Vatrano, gudas, fowler, strome) which puts a lot of pressure on the young guys on the roster. Guys like zegras and gauthier have looked good but they just ain’t getting the bounces you get when you’re confident.

Chemistry seems to be off, simple things like passing out of the dzone or on power play seem chaotic. I think a lot of players are playing low confident hockey…. Zegras and gauthier are the best examples of that.

Gauthier is a guy that should have no problem scoring…. Great shooter and not afraid to shoot…. But he can’t hit the net, and when he does it’s generally a post.

Zegras is at his best when he’s attack people 1 on 1, and creating passing lanes to use his vision to create offense…. And you just don’t see that as much this year. It’s great that he’s playing a more complete game…. But you still need to let him do what makes him great.

I personally think we need a coaching change badly…. But it seems like PV is going to make a roster shake up before a coaching change. Which scares me because I don’t see a player change that is going to salvage this season…. Outside of getting rid of older players not performing.

Trade Vatrano, call up colangelo.
Trade fowler, call up lunea.

But then you’re still stuck with a very very young roster lacking confidence, with a coach that is running out of run way.

Got it thanks. It sounds like in your opinion there are 4 main issues right now:
1) coaching (overall quality of coach and / or fit with the team)
2) gripping the stick too hard
3) Team chemistry
4) Most players (incl vets) underperforming, which imo probably has at least a little to do with the first three points

I am (was?) an Arizona fan, before our most recent rebuild we had a few years where Rick Tocchet coached on compete and winning puck battles (ie the way he played), the problem was our GM John Chayka was consistently drafting and sending him small players. It didn't really make sense and the team didn't really have much of an identity for multiple years in a row.

Without knowing anything about the situation I'm wondering if something similar might be happening with the Ducks. PV had an amazing career but was never a skill guy, his 500+ goals had not much to do with offensive creativity. At a high level it would make sense for someone like him to maybe value other traits more than creativity, and obvi it makes sense to hire a coach who shares your values. Which becomes a problem if your core of players is made up of young skill guys who ideally should be playing to their strengths rather than however Pat Verbeek played.

I honestly don't know I'm just spitballing. But after a quick look at your roster, I feel like if Zell hits you guys should be only a player or two away from being a very good team for a very long time, especially if Dostal ends up being good. I wouldn't necessarily worry about someone like Cutter, he's a rookie, if he's consistently generating offense that's a very good initial sign.

Anyway thanks for the well-thought out response, and I hope you guys at least get to playoffs sooner rather than later, the league's always more fun when there are more competitive teams. Much appreciated from over here

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Got it thanks. It sounds like in your opinion there are 4 main issues right now:
1) coaching (overall quality of coach and / or fit with the team)
2) gripping the stick too hard
3) Team chemistry
4) Most players (incl vets) underperforming, which imo probably has at least a little to do with the first three points

I am (was?) an Arizona fan, before our most recent rebuild we had a few years where Rick Tocchet coached on compete and winning puck battles (ie the way he played), the problem was our GM John Chayka was consistently drafting and sending him small players. It didn't really make sense and the team didn't really have much of an identity for multiple years in a row.

Without knowing anything about the situation I'm wondering if something similar might be happening with the Ducks. PV had an amazing career but was never a skill guy, his 500+ goals had not much to do with offensive creativity. At a high level it would make sense for someone like him to maybe value other traits more than creativity, and obvi it makes sense to hire a coach who shares your values. Which becomes a problem if your core of players is made up of young skill guys who ideally should be playing to their strengths rather than however Pat Verbeek played.

I honestly don't know I'm just spitballing. But after a quick look at your roster, I feel like if Zell hits you guys should be only a player or two away from being a very good team for a very long time, especially if Dostal ends up being good. I wouldn't necessarily worry about someone like Cutter, he's a rookie, if he's consistently generating offense that's a very good initial sign.

Anyway thanks for the well-thought out response, and I hope you guys at least get to playoffs sooner rather than later, the league's always more fun when there are more competitive teams. Much appreciated from over here

I think open discussion should be welcomed.

A lot of people come into these threads spewing out bs answers or opinions, and don’t want to actually discuss.

There’s issues, but you see this stuff with a lot of young teams…. Oilers struggled forever with what 4 1st overall picks… the Sabres have been a mess since the beginnning of time. There isn’t a clear answer to fixing it.

I do think confidence is the biggest issue, sometimes I feel like Cronin needs to take a step back and say go out there and have fun/pond hockey and try to get some confidence in these guys.

It’s not like the young guys lack talent. Hopefully something will click at some point… maybe it’s a roster change, maybe it’s a coaching change…. And we at least start to see that light.

As a fan these struggles make the playoffs more rewarding if/when you finally get over this hump.

 

[Reality Czech]

I can’t imagine arguing in a thread that you have no idea what you’re talking about hahahaha. It’s actually an incredible way to use your free time. Embarrassing.

I'd have to care more to argue about it but seems like everything is fine in DuckLand. Carry on.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

From what I have seen from the WCs and a few Ducks games this season, his skating is not quite dynamic enough to buy him enough space through the neutral and O zones. He gets closed on too quickly and has difficulties getting to the danger areas consistently, he is often forced into passing plays and defenders are reading his passes too well. A bit more skating speed and acceleration would go a long way in unlocking his offensive potential and letting him play the game he wants to play.

He is battling a lot more often than he did the first two seasons, but he still is not winning enough of his puck battles to play like an elite player, for someone that displays high level hand eye coordination, he does not force nearly enough turnovers or get clear possession on contested pucks.

I think improvement on just those two aspects would go a long way in advancing his game, the problem is that neither is a short term fix and more a product of long term effort and dedication, I think his season will continue to be challenging, but if the Ducks can be patient, there is a good player still hiding in there.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Reminds me of Morgan Frost a bit.

 

[Stephen]

Zegras’ struggles to learn a more responsible game and combine it with production reminds me of the age old struggle with young players. How he adapts and integrates those aspects will dictate his ceiling.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I'd have to care more to argue about it but seems like everything is fine in DuckLand. Carry on.

I mean your posts so far havnt been things to argue or discuss

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Zegras’ struggles to learn a more responsible game and combine it with production reminds me of the age old struggle with young players. How he adapts and integrates those aspects will dictate his ceiling.

The struggle comes from balancing the 2 sides i think.

It’s great that he’s becoming a more complete player, but he’s still got to bring that cerebral and cocky part of his game to the ice to really be great along with his new found compete/defensive play.

Last year unfortunately was a throw away season due to injuries.

This year seems like a transitional season, and adapting his old game with his new game and finding a comfortable balance between the 2.

we’ve seen big steps in his defensive game and compete levels, now it’s about how he can adapt Like you said. I think production wise he’s been a bit unlucky as no one on the roster is really producing. The line of killorn zegras gauthier has been our best line this year…. But gauthier is ice cold in terms of goals…. And killorn is more of an anchor than a line mate(which says a lot about how solid gauthier and zegras have been despite killorn)

Pv and Cronin have both complimented his work in all 3 zones, and willingness to battle…. And seem like they are patient with the offensive part right now.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Got it thanks. It sounds like in your opinion there are 4 main issues right now:
1) coaching (overall quality of coach and / or fit with the team)
2) gripping the stick too hard
3) Team chemistry
4) Most players (incl vets) underperforming, which imo probably has at least a little to do with the first three points

I am (was?) an Arizona fan, before our most recent rebuild we had a few years where Rick Tocchet coached on compete and winning puck battles (ie the way he played), the problem was our GM John Chayka was consistently drafting and sending him small players. It didn't really make sense and the team didn't really have much of an identity for multiple years in a row.

Without knowing anything about the situation I'm wondering if something similar might be happening with the Ducks. PV had an amazing career but was never a skill guy, his 500+ goals had not much to do with offensive creativity. At a high level it would make sense for someone like him to maybe value other traits more than creativity, and obvi it makes sense to hire a coach who shares your values. Which becomes a problem if your core of players is made up of young skill guys who ideally should be playing to their strengths rather than however Pat Verbeek played.

I honestly don't know I'm just spitballing. But after a quick look at your roster, I feel like if Zell hits you guys should be only a player or two away from being a very good team for a very long time, especially if Dostal ends up being good. I wouldn't necessarily worry about someone like Cutter, he's a rookie, if he's consistently generating offense that's a very good initial sign.

Anyway thanks for the well-thought out response, and I hope you guys at least get to playoffs sooner rather than later, the league's always more fun when there are more competitive teams. Much appreciated from over here

Team speed is a big issue from what I see. Individually there aren't many guys up front who either are fast or play fast nor overly desperate- some of it could be systematic and otherwise it's just who they are. The supporting cast in general is just far too vanilla/bland, they need to bring in some heart/speed/tenacity and have more guys who get after it. Too many guys who are decent NHL caliber bodies but don't do anything well enough to push the needle in the right direction.

 

[Bouboumaster]

I'd still try him on the Habs

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Maybe you need to ask the question:

How often can one score on a Michigan move? How many chances a game does a player get the time and space to do a wrap around of that nature? ANA should have been asking this question at the draft.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Maybe you need to ask the question:

How often can one score on a Michigan move? How many chances a game does a player get the time and space to do a wrap around of that nature? ANA should have been asking this question at the draft.

Crazy that Michigans are less than 1 percent of his production.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Crazy that Michigans are less than 1 percent of his production.

What production? Is there any other reason for this discussion?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

What production? Is there any other reason for this discussion?

His career production….

Idk you posted here

 

[Juxta Position]

Literally the opposite. His learning to be a more complete player has affected his offensive ability and Cronin actively discourages offensive creativity on the team.

Really? Did he tell you that? or is that your perception based on nothing more than watching the games on TV? I'm just saying, if that truly is the case, it seems like an ill-conceived way for an NHL coach to try and win hockey games....and keep his own job for that matter.

 

[dracom]

Really? Did he tell you that? or is that your perception based on nothing more than watching the games on TV? I'm just saying, if that truly is the case, it seems like an ill-conceived way for an NHL coach to try and win hockey games....and keep his own job for that matter.

It’s obvious since we’re last in the league in goals for. Play “smart” hockey; dont cheat for offense, make simple plays, dump and chase. That’s Cronin gameplan and it’s hurt the offensive production of the entire team.

But im sure you know more than someone who watches the team play

 

[57special]

Zegras reminds me a bit of Kent Johnson, though Zegras had much more success early on. Both are "skill' players struggling to find their way in the NHL. I thought Johnson looked vg early on this season, then he got injured. Apparently he really trained his body in the off season, and the result was that he was faster and stronger, which made quite a difference in what he could do in the NHL. Marco Rossi is another offensive guy who has struggled to make his game work in the pros, but has finally started to make an impact after two straight off seasons where he worked like a dog. He'll never bully people, or blwo them away with speed, but he is significantly faster and stronger than he was.

I wonder if Zegras needs to do something similar. He has decent height and reach, but a slim build. He'll never be a power forward, nor does he need to be, but he strikes me as the sort of guy who could be really be effective if he was just a bit stronger and faster.