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NFL GDT: Week 17

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hatterson said:
The idea of the eligible formation rule is so that the defense knows who is a potential receiver and who they might have to cover.

The reporting rule allows you to have a player with an ineligible number report as eligible so that you can bring in a 6th offensive lineman instead of having a receiver or a tight end have that role.
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Oh okay that makes sense. I always forget that numbers in football actually mean something and aren't just a choice like in hockey.
 
StreetHawk said:
Kind of why they have a numbering system. OL wears any number from 50-79. Those guys are not eligible to "catch" the ball (unless it is tipped). But, if you wish to allow one of them to catch the ball, they need to report to the Ref that they are eligible so that the Defence is alerted.

They returned to the field following the Dallas TO. So, they know the play call if the OL has to report. But, no one on Detroit seems to have caught the mistake by the Ref in announcing the incorrect number.

Is there an angle from the opposite side because we only see the replay with the back of the OL coming onto the field. Is there an angle from the front. Because, like I wrote earlier, typically when OL come in and want to declare eligibility, they raise one hand up and make a circle on their stomach with the other hand. That's the standard signal to report eligible, like tapping a Blackjack table to take another card..
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That's as clear a video as I've seen.

You've got two linemen walking towards him and one jogging towards him from the sideline. The guy coming off the sideline has been reporting eligible randomly all game (for other plays) and in 99.9% of plays, it's the late guy coming on who reports eligible. The ref points at #70 and nods and then walks away to tell the defense. You can't see if #70 did anything when coming off the bench a bit earlier like raising his hand like you mention.

Basically the ref knew someone was reporting, saw two people casually walking towards him and one jogging from the sideline. He assumed that the guy running in from the sideline (who has been reporting a few times earlier that game), is the guy who is actually reporting since that how it works in 99% of plays. He then points to that guy to confirm and jogs off to tell the defense.

Obviously that was a big mistake and a bad assumption, but the Lions were under no time pressure to do this and they intentionally sent 3 guys towards the ref in order to create confusion over who was reporting. They then didn't see or notice the ref pointing to #70 and nodding or if they did, didn't choose to emphatically correct the ref at that point, likely because it would give away the entire trick of the play.

Yes, the ref screwed up and he shouldn't be making assumptions over who is reporting, but if you're trying to create confusion over who is reporting by doing stuff that's not normally done, then there's only so mad you can really be when confusion is created.
 
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I wasn't on the field and didn't hear what happened but this was messed up and it appears the head official was confused even after he had been previously made aware of this play.

So the Lions might have lost on paper but in that locker room (and for me as a fan) they won much more. The players (and me) love their coach and they will go to battle for him. You can question his decision making on the field and it's more than fair to criticize that (he gave me a heart attack multiple times during the game with his crazy decisions) but you can't question his will to win or his faith in his team. So refreshing. Thank you Dan Campbell.
 
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hatterson said:


That's as clear a video as I've seen.

You've got two linemen walking towards him and one jogging towards him from the sideline. The guy coming off the sideline has been reporting eligible randomly all game (for other plays) and in 99.9% of plays, it's the late guy coming on who reports eligible. The ref points at #70 and nods and then walks away to tell the defense. You can't see if #70 did anything when coming off the bench a bit earlier like raising his hand like you mention.

Basically the ref knew someone was reporting, saw two people casually walking towards him and one jogging from the sideline. He assumed that the guy running in from the sideline (who has been reporting a few times earlier that game), is the guy who is actually reporting since that how it works in 99% of plays. He then points to that guy to confirm and jogs off to tell the defense.

Obviously that was a big mistake and a bad assumption, but the Lions were under no time pressure to do this and they intentionally sent 3 guys towards the ref in order to create confusion over who was reporting. They then didn't see or notice the ref pointing to #70 and nodding or if they did, didn't choose to emphatically correct the ref at that point, likely because it would give away the entire trick of the play.

Yes, the ref screwed up and he shouldn't be making assumptions over who is reporting, but if you're trying to create confusion over who is reporting by doing stuff that's not normally done, then there's only so mad you can really be when confusion is created.
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None of this is relevant. It’s the referees job to be right. Not to assume based on what he thinks is happening
 
A missed call late in Saturday night's game between the Detroit Lions and Dallas Cowboys led to an even higher-profile error in what has escalated into the latest and most egregious example that the NFL has an officiating issue.

The latest controversy surrounding referee Brad Allen and his officiating crew -- involving an overturned 2-point conversion by the Lions -- could potentially have been avoided if not for another missed call on the Cowboys' previous possession.

The Cowboys owned a 17-13 lead when they intercepted Jared Goff at the Lions 29-yard line with with 2:05 remaining. Tony Pollard's 7-yard run on the ensuing play was called back after Dallas tight end Peyton Hendershot was called for tripping, setting the Cowboys up with a 1st and 25 on the Lions 44-yard line.

Video of that initial first-down play, reviewed by ESPN, showed that Lions defensive end Aidan Hutchinson -- not Hendershot -- should have been the one flagged for attempting to trip Pollard.

@AdamSchefter
 
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Romang67 said:
Campbell has completely dodged having to answer why he stubbornly went for a 2-point conversion after the penalty.
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He was trying to win, on the road, just to keep their slim hopes of the #1 or even #2 seed alive. They had already given up 200 yards to Cee Dee Lamb as well.

Lions got jobbed in the playoffs years ago versus Dallas and got jobbed here. But I'm not mad. They had to win out and get some help to finish above the #3 seed as is.
 
The crew last night might not employed much longer, as was pointed out by Schefter with the terrible call against the Cowboys, and later the whole did he or didn't he. Sometimes you have to admit that you're not good enough to be an official.
 
Reality Check said:
He was trying to win, on the road, just to keep their slim hopes of the #1 or even #2 seed alive. They had already given up 200 yards to Cee Dee Lamb as well.

Lions got jobbed in the playoffs years ago versus Dallas and got jobbed here. But I'm not mad. They had to win out and get some help to finish above the #3 seed as is.
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No reason to be mad. The refs gave the Lions a gift call prior to any of this happening. The refs need to be accountable. Not just this game.
 
Reality Check said:
He was trying to win, on the road, just to keep their slim hopes of the #1 or even #2 seed alive. They had already given up 200 yards to Cee Dee Lamb as well.

Lions got jobbed in the playoffs years ago versus Dallas and got jobbed here. But I'm not mad. They had to win out and get some help to finish above the #3 seed as is.
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Sure, but he had a higher chance of winning by kicking an XP and playing in OT than he had by going for 2 from the 7.
 
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hatterson said:
lol. NFL pregame showing that the tripping call against the Cowboys should have actually been against the Lions. If that’s called right the cowboys never throw the ball and the Lions never score a TD in the first place.
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I don't know, man. I wouldn't have bet on them giving the Lions an extra 40 seconds by throwing it on 2nd down either.

Reality Check said:
He was trying to win, on the road, just to keep their slim hopes of the #1 or even #2 seed alive. They had already given up 200 yards to Cee Dee Lamb as well.

Lions got jobbed in the playoffs years ago versus Dallas and got jobbed here. But I'm not mad. They had to win out and get some help to finish above the #3 seed as is.
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Do they have a worse chance at winning in OT than on a single play from 7 or 3.5 yards from the end zone? The original 2 point conversion isn't a bad idea. The following 2 failed attempts?
 
GKJ said:
None of this is relevant. It’s the referees job to be right. Not to assume based on what he thinks is happening
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And to make it worse, Campbell said they even talked to the refs about this before the game. That's a common practice when you're going to do something tricky.

So this ref knew the Lions would be declaring one guy eligible all game and slipping in another at one point, and the ref still screwed it up.
 
Romang67 said:
I don't know, man. I wouldn't have bet on them giving the Lions an extra 40 seconds by throwing it on 2nd down either.
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They would have had 1st and 10 from the 11 or the 14 (don’t recall if it’s added to the end or in replacement of the play).

One of the reasons they threw on second down (I assume) was that they were nervous about a negative running play kicking them out of FG range. If they’re inside the 15 that’s not an issue.

I suppose it’s possible that Mike could have still Mike’d, but there’s a far far lower chance.
 
hatterson said:
lol. NFL pregame showing that the tripping call against the Cowboys should have actually been against the Lions. If that’s called right the cowboys never throw the ball and the Lions never score a TD in the first place.
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I think a lot of things can be right.

The Lions drew up an insanely complicated play call, to try and confuse the Cowboys by pretty much confusing the officials. There is a degree of human error, especially when you overly complicate things. It sounds like they did everything right, or at least thought they did everything right. But who knows what was said to the officials when these players were reporting eligible. We’ve seen how update and particular the league can be.. remember Dak’s coin toss wording cost them a possession in 2019 vs the Rams?

The refs were bad both ways (this is nothing new). Micah hasn’t drawn a holding call in over two months despite being mauled at the LOS every snap. There was a trip called on the wrong team that would have ended the game before this.

The Lions also have to take some blame for putting themselves in a position for this to happen. Don’t throw two interceptions, and maybe cover Ceedee Lamb? Maybe convert better on 3rd and short? Maybe after you get backed up to the 7 (right or wrong), settle for the 1XP and take your luck in OT?

Lots of blame to go around here, but I’ve seen these exact calls go against the Cowboys. It sucks but it is what it is.
 
Troy McClure said:
And to make it worse, Campbell said they even talked to the refs about this before the game. That's a common practice when you're going to do something tricky.

So this ref knew the Lions would be declaring one guy eligible all game and slipping in another at one point, and the ref still screwed it up.
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"To me, it was Tuesday."

I'd wager that it's MUCH easier for Campbell to clearly have that pre-game conversation in mind at that point in the game than it is for the ref. For the refs, at some point in the game one of the two teams may change which big O-lineman they declare eligible, based on a presumably short conversation some 5 hours earlier.
 
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bustamente said:
The crew last night might not employed much longer, as was pointed out by Schefter with the terrible call against the Cowboys, and later the whole did he or didn't he. Sometimes you have to admit that you're not good enough to be an official.
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Rappaport just confirmed thy have been demoted and wont get any playoff games

so the fall out continues
 
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This causing Detroit to fall out of the #1 seed battle only to then get, and then lose to the Rams seems about on par for them.

As the old saying goes, can't have shit in Detroit
 
What’s going unsaid, also, is that the Cowboys would have defended the play differently if they had of known which tackles were eligible.
 
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